Now that I have dug into my 914 project I'm going to have to do some sheet metal repair on the rear trunk floor. Also in the future will be various chassis reinforcements being added and possibly flares for the wheelwells. I have a oxy/acetylene along with a old 300 amp stick welder but I'm thinking a mig welder is what I want? Today I looked at Lowes,Home Depot and Tractor Supply at Lincoln and Hobart 140 amp migs that run 110v. So can I do this work with my oxy/acet unit or should I go mig? And if I go mig any preference to brand? I know that shielding gas is preferred over flux wire.Help me out guys. Thanks

go mig, go 210, go with a big bottle, and just plain invest in your "second" welder upfront. you DO want infinite voltage/wire feed control. hobart, linclon, miller. if you can't afford this right now, then postpone your project a couple months until you can. just my 02.

It can be done w/ oxy/acet. A mig will be 1000% easier. The Home depot Lincoln 135 is a heck of a welder for the little stuff (like our cars).

Shielding gas is the only way to go. Makes the welds look alot better, and you dont have to deal w/ slag.

I built a SCORE class 1450 (unlimited pre-runner) w/ the afformentioned Lincol 135.

BJH

I've been thinking about buying one of these Millermatic 175's . Does anyone know if you can buy an electrical cord (say 20 feet long) that you can plug into the electrical outlet for a dryer to run a 220V welder?

I have a miller 175 and I love it. You can make an extension cord for your dryer outlet, I have a 20ft one myself.

If it ain't 220 volts...

It's too small........

I think NeBreitling said it best.....

C

I can get the Hobart 140 for 399.99 and Home Depot has a closeout Lincoln 3200 HD for 368.00. Why are you saying 220v is the way to go? Is it needed for sheet metal work?

Ditto on the custom extension cord.
I went to Home Depot and picked up 25' of their heaviest gauge multi strand wire/cable and 2 A/C plugs. One male for the dryer outlet and one female for my welder. They have a few different types of plugs so make sure you get the right ones.

Remember:
Wire of a certain gauge is rated in ohms/ft. 6g wire is rated at 0.00048 ohms/ft. Remember V=IR, so V = 100 * 0.00048, or V = 0.048v. This is the amount of voltage "lost" due to the resistance, or the "voltage drop". The rule of thumb is the voltage drop should be no more than 2% of the original voltage

I bought a Miller 135 about a year ago. I also have a large arc machine for really big stuff - but I haven't touched it in a year!

The Miller is more money - but it's well built and the infinite adjustability is much better than presets. Highly recommended for sheet metal work. The shielding gas should be required for sheet metal.

The 135 is 110 - but I run it off a 25 amp circuit.

No, a 220 welder is not required for most every thing you'd do on a 914. I have an old 110 Century unit (with gas) that I got about 15 years ago that's served me very well, without the problems of finding an appropriate electrical outlet. I did find that anything over a 25 ft extension cord would degrade performance a little. The nice thing about this unit is the voltage (heat) and wire speed are infinately adjustable. This is a feature I would definately put on the must have list, as well as shielding gas kit.

All that said, you do get what you pay for. The better welders have better drive mechanisms, better features, and generally speaking produce a more stable arc. I've upgraded to a TIG unit, and a Miller 175 which I like pretty well.

rfuerst911sc

I look at a Mig from a "all around welder" perspective.

Too many times when I was younger and didn't know any better. I bought welders that were great on sheet metal. And sucked at building cages or was less that wat was needed from a fabricating perspective.

Cause once I got a GOOD welder, I found that the opportunitys to create new parts, build cages, fix lawn mowers, help a buddy out with a broken car trailer, etc.

Was only possible with a 220V commercial style welder that was both DC and AC. And had the balls to weld anything that came my way.

DC is especially good on verticles and upside down welding.

The welding opportunitys are greatly expanded with a high quality ac/dc mig welder.

There is also the the duty cycle question. With the bigger welders. You can weld all day. With the smaller welders, The duty cycle may be so low. The welds start to degrade as the windings and the diodes heat up. Then ya have to stop and let the welder cool off. Thats a pain in the ass IMHO.

A good example of this is welding up all of the chassis seams for a A/X car. The small welder "more often than not " will flat out over heat and start creating crap welds. Then ya wait a half hour and stick a fan on the welder to cool it off.

Then start again... PITA........


Commercial 220V welders ain't cheap brand ew..... yet they are SOoooo worth the extra dollars in my experience.

(used welders can be a great buy if ya know what to look for)

Then again.... If your holy grail is to only weld sheet metal and handle small projects. Dam near any 110 mig with a bottle of mix gas will suffice.
(NOTE: Bigger bottles are better)

Hopefully that answers you question...
Cheers,
C

i just got a lincoln 135 plus from welding mart free shipping, fast delivery. also got the cheapie auto darkening helmet works great, i'm happy!!

go infinite adjustability!!

ps .... buy extra tips ...

Not me, I'm gonna buy the most expensive, fastest darkening helmet I can find.

OK .... maybe i should have said "inexpensive" helmet. the product description says: "the Apprentice is a low-cost unit that features the number one selling welding helmet on the market and the highest quality solar-powered auto darkening lens."

it doesn't mention the auto dark speed, but i feel certain there is a standard for darkening speed that is deemed safe. also the auto dark lens can be exchanged for a more expensive or faster darkening lens if need be.

it shouldn't take me long to find out if it doesn't darken fast enough.

[/quote]it shouldn't take me long to find out if it doesn't darken fast enough.

it shouldn't take me long to find out if it doesn't darken fast enough. [/quote]


You would be hosed long before you noticed the effects....

C

What's that stuff that deaf people use to read????

Not Braille...that's fer blind people that cheap out on safety equipment....but hey,,,,,I COULD be wrong....

I'm all for buying a Lincoln SP 175 (thats the infinately adjusable 220V I have). It works great on just about every project you can throw at it. We've done everything from weld 3/8inch plate steel (of course, you might want to do that in more than one pass lol) to sheet.

I never use autodarkening helmets. The scare me. I totally agree with Clayton in that you will be in trouble way before the side effects step in. I would highly suggest getting a dark helmet that is not autodarkening . . . its not a big deal to push it up when you stop welding . . . all you need to do it nod to put one down. But thats just MHO

maybe it's the helmet that is low-cost and not the lens itself. anyone know what is the minumum darkening speed that is considered not cheaping out on safety?

if we can believe the manufacturers claim that it is "the number one selling welding helmet on the market ", then there will be a lot of blind CSOBs out there soon.

should i contact my lawyer?

Doug, its probably not a big deal for people unless they weld very frequently or for a long time each sitting. I have heard of people getting headaches and sore eyes from welding with auto-darkening helmets for a extended periods . . . IDK what kinda of helmets they were wearing.

If Chris Foley or McMark would chime in the disagree ment could probably be settled :shrug:

Welding upsidedown on dirty rusty old metal without an auto darkening helmet is waaaaaayyyyyyy harder than with one. If you plan to seam weld or reinforce the rear of your car, you'll be doing lots of this kind of welding.
I bought a small 110 volt Miller a few years ago for doing bodywork, I couldn't afford $1000,00 for a 220, so I spent $400.00 on this. I haven't been sorry. It's small and light, doesn't cost much to run, I can take it to the track, and if I need to make a trailer or whatever I can use a buzzbox.

it doesn't much matter ...... i'm due to go blind from masterbating anyway!!!

If I was making a cage, I would definitely want a 220.

I like self darkening helmets...!!!!!!!!!!

Tig is especially difficult without one. (for me anyway)

I just like very good ones.

And I have taught my self to blink every time I pull the trigger nor press a pedal.

This gives me peace of mind for the darkening to kick in.

In reality... The lenses darken way faster than my eyes can blink.

I don't even think about... i just do it.

NOTE: Years back there was a huge influx of cheap S/D hoods that weren't worth a crap. Guys were getting headaches and complaining of seeing stars for days.

Thats why I learned to blink... Just in case it might help me.......

Do some homework on the net about self darkening lids..... Not the stuff written from the manufacturers. I mean articles written by OSHA and third party testing labs

It's rather revealing.

Regards,

C

Go ahead and buy the Miller 175. You won't be sorry. You'll never be ill because you bought the cheap welder to start with. It will be able to do most anything you get into. I have welded 1/2in plate with mine. I have also welded down to 20gauge sheet. I made a 30ft extension cord for mine so I can go pretty much anywhere in my shop or even out into the parking lot.

I am not a big fan of autodarkening helmets. They will flash you if you block the light sensors. Even with a TIG I am better off with a standard helmet.

Ok, one last time....

the "darkening" part of auto darkening helmets has ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING to do with safety....

The base lens blocks the eye burning UV ALL THE TIME!

The darkening part blocks (dims) the visible portion so that your retinas don't saturate. Saturation is not a permanent thing. It happens every time you are the subject of a flash picture.

Dudes....at least we have a good discusion on SAFETY.....


Have a NICE night....

And there ya go...!!!!!!!!

Dead on...............

Clayton

Twystd1, . . . .

You mentioned about the duty cycles of the system heating up to over heat and then a cool down period of a 110 system . I understand that part but how can one determine if the system has over heated . Is there a warning lite or do the welds go to crap ? How much welding can you get done before this happens when you are doing some heavy duty welding say on a tube frame structure and must it be continuous welding instead of a start/stop kind of welding cycle. Only a few minutes or say 30+ minutes .

Go to any welding supply website and look at the duty ratings.

They typically call out for instance on a 110V 90 amp welder how long you can constant weld within a 1 hour time span. Like if it reads 20%. it will start taking a crap after a constant 12 minute usage. (20%) At max usage. As you use less of the available amperage . The duty cycle goes up.

And YES on the welds starting to fall off in quality after the transformer reaches it's delta. (Output Amps - VS -time- VS - heat)

The more sophoisticated welders (read $$$$s) have an automatic csetup that prevents such issues. (read Boeing, GM, High end manufacturing or R&D)

Typically not only to higher end welders give you more time to weld contiuously. They also create better welds as the wire feed engine, current capabilitys, the diodes and the manual and auto adjustments are more refined.

Thats my story and i am sticking to it. Like a puddle of rod..................

NOTE...

There are fellas on this board (Brant) that may weld more in a week than I do in a year. I just know what i know from my experience.
And being around my friends that live and breath welding and one off R&D.

I had a guy named "Lil John" Buttera teach me some stuff way back when.

And most of it holds today. The equipment is just better......

Do some more homework on the net. there are welding forums dedicated to this material.

And if you are EVER going to really get into this. Bbuy big ( 175Amps + if ya really want to weld alll day)

And get two cylinders of gas. One for usage... And one for the Saturday night welding experience when you run out of gas and your hating life.... (It seriously sucks... ask anyone)

And you have to wait a week to get to the welding shop to swap bottles. it just kills a day of fun.....

Also... if you buy a used bottle. In my neck of the woods. they won't re-fill em if they are date stamped older than 7 years. (OSHA)
Unless U know somebody

Hopefully this is just more food for thought.


Cheers and Happy Holidays to you and your family....!!!!!!!!!!!!

C

Twystd1, . . . .

Thanks for the info on welding . I'll have to take a welding class at the local tech school to catch up on welding experience.

Also, a big Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family .

I found some excellent information on welding safety here and here.

It's so nice when someone else takes the time to do the research.

Thanks.....!!!!!!

Thats what OSHA has been saying for ten years or more...

C

Hmmmm, ring, ring.....Hallllo? WHoogeeez is speking?

WTF?

I called these maroons and can't even get someone in most cases to answer the phone and when I do?.....Geeeez....jjjewwz need vhat????

Excuse me, but screw OSHA......in the last ...what 10 years? they suck....

One more time Mike,
You nailed it....

They are Maroons.



C

My MM175 has an automatic shutoff if run past its duty cycle. I have only hit it once when I was welding a trailer up out of four inch channel. I was running very long beads (16ft). I just have to take a break and let the machine cool down. Never had any problems with my welder otherwise.

I am not saying if you have an autodarkening helmet you will be instantly blinded when your lense doesn't darken. Most lenses are something like a 6 or 8 to begin with. So no you won't go blind getting flashed, it is just really annoying.

As I listen to you guys and do web research on welders it appears that most 110v 135-140 migs are 20% duty cycle vs. 210v units being 30%. For a guy just doing sheet metal ( body ) work is the extra 10% worth an extra $300.00-500.00? If I ever do mega welding in the future I'll use my stick welder. Am I off base here?

Harkening back to what was posted a while back...

keep 'em clean, And get the RIGHT tips. Previous owner of my welder was using the wrong tips- he was using tips made for gasless welding. So when I bought it from him I started out the same way and couldn't understand why my welds were so crappy. Then I went to a welding store and found out I had the wrong tips. Needless to say my welds improved about 100x afterwards.

You will be fine with a 110v welder.

My 175 is great, but I could do most anything I have build with a 110V as well. It is just nice to know that you won't have to buy a welder twice as your skills and projects grow

When you are comparing duty cycles. (110 VS 220)

Compare them at the same output.

The bigger welders make a huge differance when I am welding off and on all day. (read cage welding or chassis seam welding)

NOTE: Ask yourself why welding shops use BIG 220 migs most of the time.

Cause they last, they are consistent, they are very adjustable and they run all day.

Like I said before. if I was only doing sheet metal and such. i would stick with my little snap on 220V 135 amp... As it works ALL DAY on sheet metal if I use it within it's duty cycle.

Yet it won't work for more than 20 minutes cranked up to weld a cage.

Then the 175 simply rocks. And I can use bigger wire and single pass the joints. Istead of double passing with the smaller wire from the smaller welder.

Keep in mind... thats just my experience. Guys like Brant do it every day. Listen to their comments.

Me... I am just a back yard mechanic and fabricator at best. I just have been doing it for 30+ years...

All of the welders called out in the previous posts work.

It just depends on your end result. What you will be doing in the future.

AND what kind of electrical you have at yopur house and how much it might cost you to run a 50 amp circuit for a big welder into said garage.

That also part of the equation..... be cognizant of this cost. It might cost more than a welder..!!!!!!!!

Cheers.... And Merry Christmas to all...

Clayton

Don't forget about the quality of the wire.

A high quality and very clean wire will make big differences.

We like Washington Alloy right now.

Also a Mig that can hold an 8 inch wire spool is nice. It really opens
up your choice of manufactures and you don't have change spools as often.

I modified my little portible Mig to hold bigger spools. A piece of PVC
bolted to the back.

Whatabout1 brought up some great stuff.

I agree with everything he said.

Big spools are nice... Really good wire makes a big differance on some metals and some differance on everything.

Proper tips, gas, wire, and practice make a huge differance.

This is really good data... great thread......

C

The big spools rock no doubt about it. On my 175 I have never had the machine shut down on any job I have done. Not even the 4+ hours pretty much straight nightly welding scrap together to practice the first month or so when I got mine.

Big thing is you will spend close to 2X the price going from 110 to 220. Try to envision what you will do in the future, beyond your immediate project goals in determining which welder to buy. I have paid for my welder 2x over already if I was to farm out that work. It is amazing what you can come up with when you can be empowered to build it yourself.

For a little more than 150 dollars you can upgrade from the 135-175. Can't think of a better reason to go to the bigger one.

Oh yea, thanks for the reminder.... TIPs.

All of the electricity (in most Migs) that is creating the weld travels
thru the tip to the wire. So your tip does age. (I hate to say it)

Then there is allot of power being wasted. The current has to
arch across the air gap from the tip to wire. Leaving less for the
weld.

Tips are cheap and easy to change.

tips, nozzles and liners are your consumables outside of welding wire. Get your hands on a large tank (120CF) - I have an 80CF and wish I would have gone bigger.

Definitely get the bigger tank. You will be much happier at 3 AM saturday before the big autocross.

You can make your tips last long if you polish them and clean the slag off them periodically. I also spray some wd40 on my wire spool from time to time.