Has anyone done any aluminum casting before???

It seems that with all the type 1 head being cast, someone of these manufacturers might be convinced to run off some new castings for type 4 heads......
Maybe twin plug....
Bigger fins???

Better port design
Better flow

Lots of things could be done.....

Has anyone looked into this before???

Rich

Jake Raby is coming out with new Type 4 heads in February. Search the archives here from about a week ago or look over on the Shop Talk Forums

Type one heads. I saw the pics.

Rich

Yes, you are right.

about the only "real" common item between the T1 head and the T4 head is that they are made from aluminum.....

what I mean is that, a new pattern(s) would have to be created from scratch, the cost for such an item would have to be absorbed by someone and unless there is a proven market in the thousands "right now", the manufactures are not going to eat the cost (a few grand once you factor in reverese engineering and even more for R&D if you want to "improve" the factory head design)

It takes about a year for a crazy guy to prototype (cnc) a head to a finished design. I saw someone do it for a motorcycle... takes about $1,000,000,000,000.00 in aluminum cubes too.

Billet heads give me a chubster.



If you can sell 99 sets for $1,800.00 each, I have a possible source.

Wait a second... there really is a broad need for a type-4 head..


M

mikes right. the pattern work is the killer. not to mention the proto type refinements. the "shrink" of the metal as it cools has to be built into the pattern. pattern builders are artisains, are in high demand, and call their own shots.

kevin

Um....

It ain't that hard. Some CAD programs can accomodate that easily. We have used the CAD database to make a 3D SLA plastic model which is then dipped in layers of plaster. Once the plaster is hard, reinforce with sand and fill with molten metal. The SLA burns away. We used spin casting to force metal into the molds and produced very nice parts from 300/400 series stainless. Use high pressure water to blow the mold appart.

The plaster will make a very nice smooth "as cast" finish and in most area, no machining will be needed. Parts look like die cast.

Ken

okay then, i nominate kwales to cast heads

ken, the cnc can do the e&h ports as well? leaving the rough finnish on the intake? the voids in castings are formed by cores that breakout after the casting. i wonder if the fins on the barrels would have to be cored items as well. i'm sure you know that but those unfamiliar with casting methods may not. i worked in a non-ferous foundry for 5 years 48 hours a week. gruelling way to make a living.

kevin

Cool Kevin, now get your ass back in there and cook me up some tasty metal treats!




M

Unfortunately it's not quite as easy as you would think.

The main problem is the amount of fins, those skinny little fins are very hard to cast. All those fins are absolutely necessary for cooling. I don't know much about casting but I think they are pressure cast. Then it has to be the correct material, right heat treat, etc., etc.

Raby's heads will be Type 4 with type 1 exhausts.
I bet it will be more than a year before he has prototypes, then he will have to test them. They will have to make 1000's of them to make a profit and they will need some serious coin to bring them to market. Then the price must be within the grasp of the average enthusiast.

That’s a lot of hurdles to jump, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

SLA--- wow! I worked with one of the early betatest SLA-1 machines when I worked at Pratt and Whitney Government and Space Systems Division in the early '90s. We were making 3D stereolithoography mockups of turbofan engine blades for F22 fighter jets and other aircraft. It was really sweet.

Do you have access to time on an SLA machine? This might be useful for those of us looking to remanufacture or dupe parts (i.e., fog light grills, etc.)

Regards,

Karl

miles, actually i'm planning on taking up a plastic speaker housing to the foundry and see if i can have one cast up. no raised lines. you could cut your own opening and fit what ever speaker you choose. powder coat what ever color you like. no more broken ones. no pattern. a left and a right at one time. hand carved sprues, runners, gates, risers, and hand ladle poured. foundry lingo.

kevin

Kevin,

A big CNC machining center with a rotating turret of bits can hog out a head from a block but it might take a coupla different setups to get all the machined surfaces/bores on all the sides of the heads. Won't be rough in the intake but as machined finish. It would probably be expensive.

The process we use is much like the lost wax process where a wax mold was made, dipped in plaster and the wax was melted out. That's how they make the Rolls Royce Lady hood ornament.

A lot of engine manufacturers are using the process of coating a plastic core and melting it out with molten metal. They are using molded styrofoam shapes such as an entire engine blocks or manifolds. Sometimes cores can be added. I know Saturn uses this for their engines.

This process would lend itself very well to casting fins. As per heat treat, they do it all the time. Many of my parts (at work) are heat treated and cooled in a specific manner to get a certain material property.

I've even seen a titanium casting process (different than above) . That's like turboing a teener. It can't be done.

Ken

Karl,

Been using SLA's since 1993. We had a guy at work who sweet talked the SLA manufacturer out of their only prototype small diameter beam ( .003 beam).

You ought to have seen the small medical devices we made out of that!

Recently, my division of J&J sold off our fantastic model shop so now it costs money to go outside for SLA or machining.

Ken

ken, we also made lost wax molded in plaster of paris, bake out the wax, pour them, soak in water to sorftn the plaster. items for tiny little electic train engines out of brass. wheels, driving arms, the stuff that makes up a $1k ho train item. a wadded up handful of magnesiun shavings wadded up and having some water tossed on them is pretty impressive. have someone else toss the water. shavings on your hand will = a trip to the plastic surgeon. you're right about the cost of cnc manufactured heads i think. cost prohibative for our application. $6k worth of heads on a $4k car .

kevin

HO .... its all in the N scale

Let's all just build new cars, from scratch.

We are already? Ok.




M

WEVO has a SLA (Stereo Lithography..I'm assuming ??)



B

My heads WILL NOT be out in February! I will be sellling parts in February, but not heads! The heads are atleast ONE YEAR AWAY FROM TESTING!

To cast a head the right way is a seriuos duty thing. The answer is not BIGGER FINS, bigger fins COOL LESS! A longer, thinner fin cools extremely well.

Imagine a stock TIV casting, with the stock finnage, but a TI exhaust port- Thats my head. Also the combsution chambers and plug holes will be optimized.

Casting a head is not small time stuff, designing it is not either........If its nopt taken seriously the end result is just aftermarket, non thought out, pure junk that is made for one sole purpose.........To make money!

Ya Brad,

Steriolithography. Wave a laser beam in a vat of goo to harden the goo. Build up layers to make a part. Really cool process, really crappy plastic when hard unless the part is big.

Then there is SLS (Selective Laser Sintering). Wave a laser beam over a powder and melt or sinter it together. Build up models in layers .005 thick or so. Our machine does plastics (polycarbonate) and bronze and iron. Sometimes we make plastic molds (iron) with this process. We use this machine a lot less than SLA.

SLS Site

Wanna make heads? Started doodling a design on my CAD system at work.

Ken

The challenge is to create an accurate digital model in cad of the ideal head . This would be based on the standard head with thinner fins , enlarged ports etc. The part would be diecast and precision features would be cnc machined post-cast. Althought the word billet gives your average car nut a woody, it would not be economically feasible. I can arrange for molds, sub the casting, and post machine the heads. For how much each ? Depends on the quantity of the run. Designing the expensive "ported and polished" features could cut the cost of this service. Draw it in 3D and again in 2D with tolerances and send it to me and I will get you a price.

I already have the producer for the heads, and they will be thesame casting as the stock 2.0 heads, not die cast.....I have seen big problems withDie cast TIV heads....