Nice work. Thanks for sharing.

And some say that the Irish saved the world!

dare I ask if a "kit" for such an animal is in the works???

a side question, what is the most miles put on a 916?

has enough time and miles put on one to see what stresses the welded roof transmit to the cowl or other parts of the chassis??

I like it !!!!!

Thank you for sharing this with us.

Very nice... looks like good work!

making 916 clones? thats pretty neat. nice fab work...

whats the story on it tho? just wanted a hard top? neat stuff...

cool work

I like this place

"Fitsbain" and myself where just talking about if this has been done. I too am interested if there is a "kit" in the making? Thanks for posting. Bob

BEAUTIFUL WORK!!!

Has anyone ever made a X brace (or something like it) that could be rigidly mounted at four points (like in the factory GTs) and then bolted into place, with the stock top attaching to the brace setup. It would eliminate the ease of going from closed to open in minutes, but I sure bet it would improve structural rigidity.

Seems like it could be a GREAT product...

pete

my head was already into the roof before going to a layback scheel seat.....

i know of what you are talking about (good picture in the johnson restore book)... but youreally think that would help a whole lot?

did the GT's have a real tarage top? or was it just a 'skin' ?

let's try to upload my first picture!

Click to view attachment

Great pics, thanks for sharing, I always wondered how difficult this would be.

Sweet. This is the best solution I have seen for replacing the NLA windshield/targa seal!

Our man Geoff Pollard in england wanted a replica after he saw the real one and the disaster 916 in England that the guy would not sell, so he purchased a 914 shell from us and went for it! Congrats Geoff in a great conversion.

The crazy irishmen who did this one could be persuaded to do another I am sure. I already have a hardtop 914 so I am not a buyer though!!!!!

Wouldn't it just put more stress on the windshield frame and flex it enough to crack the glass?

The GT's had roll cages so the cars were already still enough to not flex so much in just this area. I think that an X brace would only serve to kill this windshield and frame and not offer much stiffening for the rest of the car . . . this just makes the windshield a load bearing member.

good point, but the factory did it and did not isolate the windshield with a rubber gasket just butyl tape like the regular car, and with the roof welded in the car just becomes like any other coupe, the windshild pillers and the rollbar now sharing the load and the twist and the windshield flexing a bit on the butyl tape.

No, it will flex less rather than more with the steel roof affixed.

Actually, I believe that many of the GTs did not have roll cages, at least not early in their competition life.

--DD

Anyways..The guy should sell a "how to" with cardboard patterns for this. I would be interested.

My thought pattern had nothing to do with the steel roof being a problem. I was thinking that with an x bar connecting the windshield frame and roll bar there would be a very uneven distribution of load and hence a problem. Not that that makes any sense since the middle of the windshield wouldn't have any more force on it anyways.

Thanks Dave . . . I did not know that.

George- you know you're killing me! That's just beutiful work. I've yet to hear anything on the subject. Anxiously awaiting. Amazing what topics you miss out on here when you go out driving!

X-Brace and a steel roof will add lot's of strength. Much less flexing in the car overall. And I would say that both an x-brace and steel roof would provide comparably the same improvements (as long as the x-brace is mounted well). I would even venture to say that reinforcing the roof in one of these two ways would be a larger stiffness improvement over a common chassis stiffening kit.

If you want to better understand the principle of distributing the sheer load around the entire box structure- get a shoe box. Now with the top firmly on the shoe box give it a twist. Now with the top off the box- give it another twist. See the difference?

Exactly!

Nice analogy!

I've been pondering making a 916 replica with my aubergine car...

Really isn't that hard to do and your glass roof gives you ALL the tech you need. Proper curve, dimensions etc. No special tools other than a welder, sheetmetal brake would be neccesary. A couple of piecxes of channel,c-clamps and a hammer can make a decent brake in a pinch

Beautiful work. I assume the top sheetmetal has to be formed on an English wheel to get both curvatures right. It can be amazing how something that looks so straightforward can really be quite difficult.

You have to really appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into something like this. Leave it to the Irish!

I'd like to build a brace like that Misha girl posted

Little if any curveature front to back. If there is indeed some then yes a wheel is the best option. It's amazing to me that something that looks so difficult is actually so straightforward ! EDIT after looking at the pics again there is DEFINITELY front to back curve. Wheel that and lightly shrink the 2 front corners to make them pull downward

With or with out shoes in it?

Without shoes! Better weight savings


Actually just talked to proto31 about it- told me stuff I didn't know. 914 GT's had a fiberglass top with a metal X brace in it...? It slips into the front targa seal like normal but then there was a little arrangment where it gets pinned into the frame? I'd like to see pics if anyone has them.... sounds sweet!

So when are you doing the 918 replica?

again... very nice fab work...

but isnt it a compund curve? not just a side to side... but there is a slight curve front to back....

english wheel?

That is nice work! An english wheel would be good choice, but it would probably take two people to keep conrol of the panel. One of them would have to be pretty skilled. Getting the shape in the right area would be tricky for a beginner. Any panel that is shaped free form without being restrained will want to curve in directions that are unintended by the operator. Some of the TV shows make it seem like an english wheel is the magic tool for something like this. It is, but it won't do the work by itself. There is a pretty steep learning curve. It can be very frustrating. You have to stretch the areas that need the most shape, and then do lighter stretching nearby to blend the shape into the rest of the panel, all the while controlling the contours in all directions. So, you stretch, and smooth. The metal goes catywhampus on you (because it can) then you have to roll the panel back into the desired contours, check where you still need stretching and start all over again.

Another method would be make the frame, roll the metal to fit side to side, weld, then add shape with a palm nailer. More intuitive for a beginner, because you stretch where it is low until you have the right contours, and the frame keeps the perimeter in line for you. The frame would have to be very stiff to keep from getting distorted by the stretching work.

A mixture of the two methods above would be interesting as well. You would add shape until the panel was getting out of your control, then weld it to the frame and start stretching with the palm nailer.

The hemmed edge? on the rear would not be easy for a beginner either. Nice work!

I think large panels with fairly low crowned shape like that are sometimes harder to do than ones with lots of compound curve in them.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Geo: I recall an article somewhere about you locating an original, clearly hand-prototyped 916--but I don't recall where. Probably there are some others on this site who also don't know the story. Could you give us the name, date, etc of that article, and maybe a short paragraph that capsulizes the story--particularly why the solid roof was missing when you got yours? (Was it originally solid on these cars for structural/tortional rigidity, or what?)

Hello John,

I'd like to mention a third method. Wouldn't it be good idea to take the rear trunk lid for the curved regions of the roof ? It should have nearly the same shape as the roof.
If this would work, one could alternatively check the junkyards for properly shaped roofs of donorcars.


Benno

Who has the engine?

There have been many articles over the years about our Brumos Peter Greg 916 but the excellence article of June 1994 is probably the one of which you are thinking.
Yes the roof was added for rigidity.

Geoff and the Irishmen actually sacrificed a 914 fiberglass roof to make the steel one.

Excellent work.
I too would be interested if such a "kit" were made.

I have some pictures of a factory X-brace a friend of mine has, I shall try to attach them.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

great idea and easily made!

I'll take one. That's a "factory" brace or is it a replica? I thought all the factory braces were bonded to the roof?

Me likes the 916 repro job. Me thinks one with a 2.7 and nice flares. OOOooooh this is evil stuff.

For those who dare to be cool, the roof does bow two ways but, I'm certain that a piece of guage metal bent as it is to the sides and forced to bend to the frame is not a big deal. The front to back hump is less than 1/2" and the metal will give easily with some clamps. The front corners will show the mosty stress but that can be cut and puttied as shown in the pic. The door edges can be first attached with the given hump and the roof then be cut to fit the shape. It is mostly an illusion which can be easily made if the builder has a little artistic insite and experience. This roof can be made with a flat light guage sheet if metal and the most basic of tools without a hitch or a kit.

Actually John if you try and clamp the Fr. and Rr. and the 2 sides to weld them you will actually buckle your panel from the corners. Metal can't be "forced" into shaped it needs to be massaged, thus tools like the english wheel,plannishing hammer and heat. As I said befroe it isn't a really complicated job but it isn't
THAT simple either. Also as Mr. Kelly stated the english wheel is NOT an easy tool to learn, so the inexperienced would be better off with a "simpler" method . I imagine there are aLOT of wheels sitting around unused because those wonderful T.V. shows sucked people into believing it is a simple to use, do-all miracle machine. There is a reason it hasn't been used much for the last 60+ years Hell I built one and can use it and rarely do

Story goes that it is factory, requires removal of latches and bolts in, top then bolts to the brace. Car (not the one in the picture) was built by Porsche for one of their poster artists who sold it to its current owner (another former factory employee).

Benno wrote: "Hello John,

I'd like to mention a third method. Wouldn't it be good idea to take the rear trunk lid for the curved regions of the roof ? It should have nearly the same shape as the roof.
If this would work, one could alternatively check the junkyards for properly shaped roofs of donorcars.


Benno"

Hi Benno,

That might make a good start, but it is rare that a similar looking shape is actually contoured nearly as close as it first appears. Once clamped it may be low by an inch or more in some places.

JPB wrote:

"For those who dare to be cool, the roof does bow two ways but, I'm certain that a piece of guage metal bent as it is to the sides and forced to bend to the frame is not a big deal. The front to back hump is less than 1/2" and the metal will give easily with some clamps. The front corners will show the mosty stress but that can be cut and puttied as shown in the pic. The door edges can be first attached with the given hump and the roof then be cut to fit the shape. It is mostly an illusion which can be easily made if the builder has a little artistic insite and experience. This roof can be made with a flat light guage sheet if metal and the most basic of tools without a hitch or a kit."

Hi JPB,

Rolling it in one direction is the easy part of course, but getting true shape in it without classic stretching or shrinking would require a press die that developed tons of pressure.

Cutting and welding the corners is not the best way to make shape in them. Tuck shrinking will generate shape inboard in a controllable manner with tools as simple as a claw hammer...no welding. You gather up the edge metal in a little tent like shape and then hammer down over the top of the tent (tuck). The metal gets thicker on the edge. It is a metal shaping job, not a clamp and putty job...don't want to get top heavy Here is an album showing tuck shrinking if you are interested:

http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/comm...d=9980191607382

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

I made a simple pinch tool from a couple of punches. I have a large set and a small set. I can't rember where I saw this. I've had these about 25 years. You can make some very nice shrinks with these. I'm with John. A claw hammer will do a great job also. Scotty b is correct about the wheeling machine. They take some serious time investment to learn.

The photo here shows how far you can stretch metal with very basic tools. I used a piece of plywood with a cutout for the shape of the recess, them drove the recess into the plywood shape. I made the lines crisp with a masons chisel.


BTW: sorry for the hijack.. just thought you'd find this interesting

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