After a long period of research and contemplation I'm going to build a bigger /4 for the 914. It may be a slow process and who knows how many pics I'll take but here goes.

the project is officially in motion as the "engine room" has now been created in a notch in my basement. College fridge and couch for my car buddies are on the way....

parts in boxes, engine stand to be picked up soon. The plan right now is build a 2.2 with a big crank, mild cam and webber 44s powering the sonofabitch. Nothing too flashy, but enough to get the job done.

just to give the kickoff of this thread a bit more oooomph, here's a pic of my latest jalopy: 1991 volvo 240 5spd.

never owned a white car in my life, in the past year i've bought two. Yes that little hut is where i keep the porsche.

I think we need a picture of the future home of the motor....the 914, not the volvo...

Rich

fair enough...

Brotha Man, throw out some details on the engine to be! I wanna know what type of beast you are building so I can develop a healthy dose of engine envy!

-pt

Cool engine room
Cool hut...!!

Day 2. Fellow car buddy Jim and I split the case and began spit shining it. Got a good chunk done but we still need to power wash it before that part is wrapped up.

Pete....engine specs will be forthcoming but the basic dimensions right now are a 76mm crank and 96mm pistons. The crank might not be 76 so it may not end up being exactly 2.2 liters

drew don't know if your interested. spoke to the guy will probably let it go for around a $1000.
914 Porsche 2.4 L 4 cyl. engine 914 6 Outlaw 356 VW on e-bay located in n.j. sorry can't figure out how to post the link

mild cams are no fun with carbs.......

look at something like a web 494... mid range screamer...

what crank? what rods you using?

here you go...if interested

e-bay engine

I live just a couple miles from Rory (the guy selling).....just in case....

ebay engine....
kinda scary lookin machining on the heads...
those appear to be mazda courier adjusters, not porsche swivel feet....
nice rods...

get a work bench man! have we not evolved from crouching in the dirt?

those rods look like just beam polished stock rods.

I have a full workbench that's just out of view, I just didn't want to make a mess of it while degreasing...

thanks for the offer rich and co. I appreciate the heads up. I am pretty happy building with what I got for the time being

noted AA thanks....Feel free to throw out ideas for rods and cams. Mid range screamer sounds good, it just need to be streetable and still fun to drive on lower speed roads.


I am very open to all suggestions and ideas

bud,
go to the local HC and get a piece or two of 22 guage galvanized sheet metal.
Nail it to the top of the bench.
Wipe is down with a rag when your done.

Best place to build,on a bench, get good lighting also.

I just got the 1500 watt temp lights from HD...they are great cause they provide nice heat also.
BTW, progress report.
Fixed drivers door
Fixed 4wd (PITA) (looked up at carpet...mmm..somethings missing there...)
Fixed rear door
Hunted for drain tube..lost patience..to cold.

I should be in town this week, not sure of the day, Alewife.
See if you can get the box of stuff for blacky.
I will bring money!!


Rich

its primarily a wood working bench which is used often so i don't want to nail any metal to it. I'm fine people! Don't worry the engine will be on the bench under good light when I get to the building stage....




The jeep was always known as "renegade" but blacky sounds alright. Thursday is good for me....

Wait a gosh darn minute!!!!

That case was clean when I solid it to you. What you do? Leave it sit under the Volvo to get dripped on?

I think He just wants to KNOW its clean...so he can polish it.

I understand the logic...cleaning gives you a close up look at the parts, and you get to bond with them a bit.

Rich

don't get me wrong here brian....it was pretty clean when i got it from you.

i want the case as substance free as possible before I start the rebuild and there some nooks and crannies you can't get clean without some elbow grease.


I last time I built a VW engine I wasn't allowed to put it back together until you could take a white rag and wipe it all over the inside with no dirt coming up. That engine is now 12 years old and runs better than ever.

OK

Just don't people to get the impression that I sell inferior products that are dirt.

They are not.

They may be inferior but they are not dirty.

he had to get all the PA shit/soot off of them...

Cool project. Get a work bench.

Gonna use stock 2.0 heads?

I know the 2.0s have 12% more power or whatever but brian set me up with a good set of 1.8s, so I am going to have them ported and polished and go that route.

Here's a pic of them on the workbench

QUESTION: should I have all the guides replaced or on a needs basis?

If you don't want to rebuild it again soon, replace.

look...he is a closet boxster fan...

Rich

guides... seats.... do it once...do it right

go to some bigger valves for that 2,2 ...

while having all the headwork done... spring for the relocated plug to 2.0

this is good stuff. now what's it all going to cost me? I was planning to put the heads back together myself.

Drew - I'm having Len Hoffman do work on my 1.8L cores. I'm having the valves upped to 42X36, new ss valves, guides, springs, keepers. All in, will cost about $200 in parts & about $800 or so in labor. I think it's an additional $100 or so per head to relocate the plug location. Figure around $1,000 for the works. I'm only going up to 2056 though...

Keep the updates coming!

-pt

dropping a seat would suck

have len or adrian make sure that wont happen

Pretty sure that's an S2000.

correct that is an S2000....


have who check what now? I have a name of a local shop thats supposed to be good but am open to ideas....


I'd really like to avoid spending a grand if possible....maybe i can have them port/polish, do the guides, and grind for bigger valves and then i will put it back together....

new valves need bigger seats.
Seat removal requires a mill and the right jig, plus the correct jig to hold the head at the correct angle.

Port/polishing IMHO does not add value until you are in race RPM range...above 6k
Till that point, I dont think it adds value other than balancing the ports
You want to maintain as much velocity in the exhaust port as you can, porting will slow down the air...it may make it flow smoother, but not as fast.

I will send out my heads that are all done, just to have the ports balanced so they flow the same amount.
This needs a flow bench and a guy who knows how to do it...

Im sending mine to either KTR in Ayer or Shine in Walpole..depends who can fit me in when I am ready. Both of these places have phones numbers...maybe not to responsive on email, but they both pick up on the first ring.

Not sure about the guy on the North Shore...WH should know what they can and cannot do.

Also Dana Johnson has a flow bench and works alot of aircooled motorcycle heads and vw heads...he is in Framingham.

Another shop to ask is Mark at Autosport Engineering in Stow...I know they use a shop in Marlboro pretty much exclusively.

Rich

Since I don't have anything to do tonight. I thought might jump in on this and try to complicate the shit out of it....

SO::::::::::::I

Ya don't need a mill to remove seats. Takes way too long.

I just throw a bead on em from a tig and they fall out.

NEXT::::::::::

I HIGHLY suggest you use a machinist with TYPE IV head experience.

These ain't type 1 heads. Len or Adrian are known excellent TYPE IV head machinists.

There are others. I just don't know them.

You should also get NEW exhaust studs.
(Jake and/or Len have the best chromo ones available)

Seat and guide installation and shoddy aluminum welding is where most machinists screw these heads up. (among other things)

If it is not done dead perfect. It will cost you tearing the engine apart again. After you suck said valve and seat.

And yea... you will need bigger valves to make it scoot.
And NO... you wont polish the intake runners in the head. As that promotes wet flow issues. Exhaust.. OK.

Yes you can assemble the heads. The rocker arm setup anyway. As the heads will come back form the machinist with valves installed.

Now ya have to figure out:
What cam? What springs for the cam? What lifters? 911 adjusters on 1.7 rockers with the rockers decked to accept 911 adjusters? or stock rockers and adjusters? Lash caps if using stock adjusters on dual springs? or single springs??

What pistons? What ring pack for the pistons? What rods? What rod bearings........?? Jakes excellent Double thrust cam bearings or stock cam bearings?. What weight and dia. piston pins?, which oil pump?, chromo or aluminum pushrods? Stock rod or rabbit rod? Or other rod?
Tuna can with extended sump tube or not? What cam? What lifters?
Are you going to have the heads professional flowed so you can determine flow numbers which will help dictate the appropriate cam?
What compression ratio? And why? What deck height?

I could go on forever.

I B sniffing that you might want to do a BOAT LOAD more homework on this build.

A 2.2 engine is going to need some thorough design and implementation to be efficient and have longevity.

Have you thought about what exhaust you are going to run? And at what cost?

How about induction?

Aftermarket EFI, Carbs, or try to make the stock FI work... so on...

What about spark? Mallory? Pertronix in a stock dizzy? etc.

There is a shit load of data needed to make sure you aren't gunna build a engine that will run hot, and be less than it it could of been, if built and designed correctly.

In truth... I really don't know shit. I do know what I need, to build one of these engines to MY spec.

It took me a year of homework living and breathing all of the type IV forums and spending untold hours researching... Just to understand what it takes to safely create maximum output, longevity, Great BSFCs, and do it for less than a pro would charge for it. I bet you I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars in time at machine shops talking, machining, giving, learning, simply to learn what I do know about these engines.

It's been a fun and rewarding journey.

Note: I have a pretty good backround in engines and race cars.
After what I learned about these engines.. I had to throw half of what I know in the trash.

Run over to STF forums

Use the search function... And read for a week straight.

Then post up what you want to accomplish. These guys are TYPE IV nutz like us.

And there are some fellas there that will take you (and me) to school.

You WILL get what you need. Cept I think you ain't gunna like what it really takes to do it right.

Aw hell.... you probably know all this stuff already....

But just in case... I thought I would throw this stuff out...

Cheers,

Clayton

good stuff clayton thanks. Your right, I need to do more homework and I'm not in any hurry. I've been quietly gathering info for about a year and fortunately I have some good local minds and the club to lean on.

Next step is to meet with a guy at a recommended vw machine shop and talk to him about there methodologies for doing the seats/guides, aluminum welding and all that good stuff.

If I don't like em, I'll move onto the next one. Rich and WH have the hookups.....

Just a little update from my end:


I am in the process of changing jobs, which is going to give me a few days off next week. In addition to skiing my face off, I am meeting with a guy at a recommended VW machine shop in MA to talk about some of the machine work that needs to be done.

After taking into consideration what everyone has said, right now I'm looking at doing the following:


upgrade heads to bigger 2.0 liter valves

move the sparkplug location to 2.0 location

replace exhaust studs, guides, seats

micropolish crank


this is a budget rebuild so it seems like going this route makes the most sense for my needs. Next on tap after this is dealing with the rods/pistons/cylinders

If your meeting with Dana, make sure you get a time frame....

on the case.
Get the oil galley plug kit from Jake's site..(its cheap)
Drill and tap those galley plugs, directions are included.
Rebuild and blueprint your oil pump.

On the rods...
If you are using stock crank...stock rods lightened and balanced is the cheapest way to go...there are very few cheap rods out there for the 2.0 liter crank journal...aircooled.net has a set...possibly CB, or check FAT also..
Get new ARP rod bolts, they are the weakest link.

P/C
Just read another thread.
The low cost AA pistons are not so low cost afterall.
The cylinders are to long, and the piston pin height is to low.
Overall this will drastically reduce your CR...which you dont want.
If you go that route.....buy them now, get the head decked, and have the same shop CC the head, and you will need to shave off the cylinder tops...

I cant remember what you are using for cylinder sizes...but if stock, 94mm, use the mahle pistons...it looks like that is the easiest way to go.
If 96mm, you may just pony up and buy them from Jake, the redone ones, so you end up with the correct deck height...
Or pay up at the machine shop to make it right...

BTW, I can either swing by Friday morning...this weeks meeting at Alewife, you can drive by on the way north, or I can mail it...
If mail, email me your address, so we can get this one done..the jeep.

Rich

Little Update:

Nice day here in Boston so a friend of mine and I took the recently delivered parts for the head rebuild to the shop in marblehead, ma.

Valves on the 1.8 heads are being enlarged to the standard 42/36mm sizes of the 2.0 heads. New Valves, springs and all the other goodies.

Still debating what to do about the exhaust ports, LOTS of differing opinions on that. If anything gets done it would probably be minor and only for cooling purposes. The shop has a flow bench so we will address that in the next couple weeks.

Next steps include sourcing some crank/rods from Jake and getting some pistons and cylinders and the cam.


Saw a nice white 914 today up in marblehead, not sure if that's anybody's here.

What shop in Marblehead? I will probably need a good shop soon for the heads off my brother's car, and since my aunt lives there that wouldn't be a bad trip.

Another update:

I just got done ordering the crank and rods from jake...I finally nutted up and dropped the cash! I will have to get more stuff from him, but I have to do it in waves to keep the wife off my trail!

heads are done...been stockpiling giftcards since christmas to buy stuff like the webber rebuild kits and such. Coming together.

next difficult task is finding a cheap set of 96x78mm P+Cs which I have another thread going on about...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=65297&hl=

you may have already seen tis thread but if not - i've enjoyed it.

it seems to me that perception is not reality and bigger is not always better.

jim

great point and thanks for the thread link.

I would be fine with dropping the displacement if I could get my hands on smaller cylinders to fit the 78mm stroke but that seems tough to do.