What do you say to a machinist to make 1.7 heads work on a 2.0?
I'm halfway through a top-end job on my new to me 78 Westfalia. Just about to swap on the rebuilt heads I got off the Samba and they don't fit. Same exact casting number, but no go. I'm guessing when they were rebuilt, they had them set up for a 1.7, combustion chamber is different too.
I'm royally screwed, cause I needed this job done tonight.
Also, can anyone recommend a shop in the greater Denver area that could do this fast?
Thanks
Samson

what is the problem exactly?

What tools do you own/have access to?

Rich

His heads need to be opened up for the bigger jugs I suspect...

C

The heads will not slide over the cylinder lip.
I only have access to hand tools and what not.

You will have to have a machinist open em up.

I have no clue how to help you as I am in Cali.....

Lets see who else pops up tonight and may be of some help.

You will need a mill and the appropriate cutters and head for this operation.

C

Don't even think of breaking out your dremel tool and going nuts on your heads....

C

Yes, that's what I think the problem is. So what would I say to a machinist? How much should I tell him to take off?
Does anyone in Denver have a spare, working 1.8 head laying around and is going to be up for another hour, call me (440)935-2848 please

pull off one cylinder and bring that with you.
hand both the machinist.
Say "make these fit"
Dude, a dremel is the best invention ever...
Rich

Take a cylinder with you and have him cut to fit...

OR

Measure the cylinder with the right tools (Good caliper) and tell him the specs.

If you ARE USING YOUR OLD CYLINDERS!!!! Take the old heads with you and use them for your measuring template.

AND

Don't worry. The machinist will dictate to you what he needs.

Are you using head gaskets on these cylinders?

C

C

mmm

Yes, I'm using my old cylinders, and no, I'm not planning on running Head gaskets. So I should just bring one of the heads I pulled off. This is something I can more or less have done anywhere right?

you need to lap the cylinders to the heads.
Each one to its individual head chamber...

Rich

YUP... If your old heads fit your existing cylinders.

Then the machinist can take the measurement off of those.

Kewlll. Now that part of the battle is over.

All you need now...... Is a machinist.

So who has a mill in their garage????????????????

C

ask Gint, he would know.
He has a Colorado 914 group on yahoo also...look there...

Rich

Yea, Gint accually lives very close to me, but I'm not a member of the yahoo group so I hope he'll chime in here.

Don't forget what R Towle said.

"You need to lap the cylinders to the heads.
Each one to its individual head chamber..."

This is a mandatory step.

You will also need to check deck cleareance from the top of the cylinder to the top of the piston. On a vanagon (which I know nothing about)
I B guessing your deck would be about 40 thou+.

Use the search function if you need more info on this.

You can use a comet cleanser and tooth paste thick slurry to do this at home.

I saw a thread from Len Hoffman that he sprays coppercote on the cylinder/head sealing area to promotes a FASTER CARBON SEAL BETWEEN THE HEAD AND CYLINDER. (new one on me)

And use the right torque wrench...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On clean threads!!!!!!!!!

Let us know how it goes........

C

Google his phone number or look in your phone book....

Times a wasting...

C

All I can tell you is to call Painter's Grinding in the morning and ask them who does their machine work. You're not going to get this done tonight that's for sure.

Sleepy-time...

I guess I was hoping Alpha had a mill in his basement. I have Painter's Gringing on my to-call list along with 3 other places a little closer. 8 am their phones will be ringing. I hope I get some answers.

Yeah. I have a mill. Just no basement.

I'm terribly terribly sorry. But the mill has a couple of titanium hubs setup on it, and I can't lose the position.

Next time, I swear!

Actually....

I do have a lot of friends... There is a shop here that I used to work for. There is a guy. Rob. The place is called Argus Systems. Now you have to be a little sneaky. The address is 3821 N. Blake, next to the baseball field. If you call down there. Or drive by, if you don't get an answer. Offer Rob 100+ bucks and he will very likely do it for you.

You can get it done tonight, if you can get ahold of him.

You can get it done tonight, If you can get ahold of him.

How the hell do you delete posts?

You press the delete button....Duh......

C

Thanks Alpha, I gave Argus a call, but he said they're not a motor machine shop. I can't believe someone was accually there at 11pm. Where are you during the day, if you're at another shop I'd love to bring them there to have you do them. If not it's cool. I'll call some of these guys in the YPs and Painter's grinding.
This is a job that any competent Machine shop should be able to knock out in no time right? Drop'm off at 9, pick'm up at 2. Or is that unrealistic?

The best place here in town, IMHO, is Kaiser Industries (BTW they do at least SOME of the machine work for painters). They are located on S.Jason Street just off of Sante Fe. PH#303.777.7678

They recently did a Vr6 head for me. Good work, very curtious and Knowledgeable.
They are open tomorrow at 8am. Tell them Corby sent ya (the guy with the VR6 Head). GOOD LUCK

Kaiser is ok.


The mistake you made is just asking them to do some heads.

You gotta say "Rob. I'll give you 100 bucks under the table to bore me 4 holes."

Nightshift at Argus runs till 2am.

Me. I'm dealing with my car tomorrow. If I had a better boring head.... Maybe. The TI hubs that I've got on there are waiting on a broaching tool...

Otherwise, I'm working at an aerospace shop on dayshift. I can't pull any funny stuff with management around.

I wouldn't reccomend Painters. They don't really hire any machinists. The bulk of their employees are grads from DADC. But they've got the machinery to do it.

Painter has a flipping crank grinder there! And it's almost painful to watch him play with it. Nice guy though. And their engines aren't half bad.

Yeah. It should be a five minute job.
1)Indicate flatness.
2)Find center Hole 1
3)get bore sized
4)Find center hole 2
5)BAM bore.
6)Indicate flatness. Part 2
7)BAM HOLE
80Find center
9)BAM HOLE

Easy.

If I get my car done tomorrow, I can drop you a line and we'll go to Warren Tech.

I got seriously D*cked over on these heads If anyone's got a 1.8 head please let me know asap, I need to get this thing back together.
I just get back from Painter's Grinding, nice guy, opened up the heads. I put it back on, no problem, but now I find out my push rod tubes don't fit. The hole in the head for the tubes is smaller than the tube, even with no gasket. WTF heads are these.
The casting # says 022-101-372, the chamber and bore are 1.7, and the standard pushrod tube doesn't fit.
If your in Colorado and have a head or a set up heads, ether or, call me (440)935-2848. I've got cash or can trade you a complete 2 liter core.

Can I, or should I, try to fix this with a dremel.

Well, according to Jake it can't be done with a dremel. 1 mm needs to come out of each tube hole. So I'm back in the same boat I was yestarday.

do the job right, have them bored or get another set of heads.
That dimension is critical to the sealing of the pushrod tube- unless you are a robot with a CNC hand you'll never make that bore round again without some surface imperfections.

Then you'll assemble the engine, have uncontrollable oil leaks and will have wasted more hours of useless labor trying to do something half assed.

Thats about as point blank as i can make things for ya.
Do it right or leave it parked.

I got the message from your last post Jake. I got a different set of heads, and these odd ball POS are getting set back. What kills me is the casting #, they match what's on my bus and could not be any more different.
Two day behind schedule and out $100, lesson learned

Your previous castings may have been bored already :-)

I'm fairly certain this engine hasn't been apart before. Still had head gaskets, and all those crappy phillups screws all over the tins still torqued. I needed an impact screwdriver to get most of them out. and I'm just going by this on the casting #s
http://tunacan.net/t4/reference/cylhead.htm