The guy I was talking to agrees with me. Build the car the way you want, and if it puts you in a class that you can't win, just have fun...

What say the rest of you?

class don't matter much to me. i build the car the way i want it to be, whatever class that puts me in ...

class-win is all fine and stuff, but being in the top 10 overall is a much better goal, IMHO ...
Andy

that is interesting Rob...

that is exactly the reason the GGR/Zone rules were changed to points so one modification would not make your car end up in a class where it was not competitive.
that was one of the main talking points for the push to the points system instead of our old menu type classification.
Now if I have a car that has 450 base points and I make one 5 point modification I move up into another class....how is that different than it used to be?

anyway...it all depends on what you want to do....I have been building a car the way I want it, but now a few mods I would like to make will put me up at least 2 maybe 3 classes and I would be in way over my cars abilities compared with the cars I would then be against.

That is why I run NASA it is a points based system, and as long as people are honest, the system works. Some times you get a guy that spreads the points a little like peanut butter. And you know it. Our club has a way of dealing with it. I am not afraid of moving up a class this year, bring it, baby!!!!

I build my car the way I want and have fun, but I do like runing at the top of my class. In reality I like clawing my way up to the win, and catching the leaders. More fun that way.

my car is uncompetitive in AI....

but it rocks... and its what i built it to do

being a competitive person, I would like my car to be able to be classed in such a way that my car at least has an even chance to finish in the top 3 for my class and in the top 15-20 overall....out of 100+ competitors at any given event. It is no fun going to an event and beating your head against the wall running with cars with a whole lot more capabilities.
I can say without apology that after winning my class last year, I could take the car of any of my direct competitors and beat my best time in my own car along with the rest of them.

As we have said for a long time the car is only part of the equation.

Clearly the car you want!

Build it for FTD, screw the classes...

Kinda depends on if you are building the car to race, or enjoy elsewhere. My car is a daily driver 1st and foremost. Then track day whore, and finally AutoX taxi.

BJH

I've built 2 race cars now.
the first was the way I wanted.
wasn't too much fun to be blown away on the track.
that car started as a street car and ultimately went back to being a street car.

After getting a bit more serious, the 2nd car was inspiried and designed from bolt #1 as a race car... I can definitely say that once you give up on the streetability and it becomes only about competition then building to the rules/class is mandatory. I find the 2nd car MUCH more fun. the other guys out there are just as serious and its not fun to bring a knife to a gun fight.

When I do it again, I'll build for class. I love my 914/3.2 for canyon carving. But on the track, I get my ass handed to me in POC class V2. The last event at Streets of Willow, I lost to a 911, lighter than my 914, powered by 330 HP! Kind of like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight.

Question is probably too broad. For GGR PCA AX and TT building to class is fairly meaningless. For hillclimb event like Hoopa just competing is likely to be fun!

If youre talking about more rigid frame work of SCCA, NASA, POC or Historics then building to class makes sense if youre all about winning. Frankly if it were me and I was considering meaningful wheel to wheel competition I'd run a spec series where competition is keen and all cars are fairly close to each other in weight and power.

The question came up because the other party was discussing ways to stiffen a 914 chassis. I pointed out that the particular modification in question was probably against the rules or possibly restrictive as a point factor... He had never thought of that. It was refreshing actually to see that innocence. He just wanted to make the car better.
I am happy to "play by the rules" my car will always be classed appropriately but just so you know... I could care less. I am just having a ball...

It depends on what you want out of it.

If you want to drive a hoot-and-a-holler fun car, but aren't as concerned with trophies or competition, then build the car you want, screw the classing.

If, on the other hand, competiton is just as important as the car itself, then RTR. Read the rules of all the possible classes your car choice lands in. Find the one where the development cost is potentially within reach (always tack on an extra zero to your estimate), and the car appears to be competitive. You may not always be able to do what you want to do to the car. But if what you -really- want is a chance to win in anything more than a class of 1, build to the rules, and build it well.

-Josh2

Ahh the view is too narrow I think. I am speaking globally. Not about GGR or Zone 7 but more nationally and across all spectrums of racing.
Virtually anything you do will put you in a class for GGR.

Exactly Rob. We have always had a class for every type and flavor of Porsche...now it is just a bit exasperating when you get put in with cars with 3X the HP.

But it doesn't matter what you build, there is a class to run it in.

I built my car to do multifunction. Street legal Autocross car. 1905 in street trim and 1850 current race trim.
I throw my tires and crap in the car drive 300 miles to an event race whip most and drive home.

got 125 out of it last night on the way home.

I couldn't care any less about classification for myself. But my car goes on the street. And that's probably the biggest difference. If you car isn't street legal, then you're more likely to build for a class.

Actually, I feel it's more likely that you start with a street car, build for a class, and the car becomes unstreetable as a result.

Two ways to look at it I guess.

I bought my 914 from the start with the plan to build it into a Street Prepared autox car. For a time at served as a daily driver as well, and I compromised the development of the car to stay streetable. The car has now gone past that stage, and is for the most part a dedicated racer that still hapens to be street legal. Street legal? Yes. Streetable? I guess, but not the most comfortable in the world.

-Josh2

It seems like a lot of 914 owners just upgrade and improve left and right without a solid plan or class in mind. Maybe they just aren't serious AXers or they don't care. It's like they are always looking at the TTOD cars and measuring their performance against the top dogs.

In a sense I've mostly done the same the thing with my 911SC. I've autocrossed it more than the 914. It's fun because it's harder and more challenging to drive on an AX coure. Also, at least a few stock SCs show up and I can benchmark myself against them. I also usually tally up how many higher classed Carreras and Boxsters I beat (usually more than half of those cars that show up).

I'm improving my 914 for the street and don't give a crap how well it does in AX. It's going to get a 2270 engine this spring and then eventually a nice street suspension and maybe a 5 lug conversion.

While new GGR points system is kookie, it does give one ability to run in fairly competive classes regardless of your build. At least for AX. TT sucks for poor stockish 914 guys.

tell me about it

You can always bring a cheerleading squad to TT events for moral support. GGR TT classing for 914's still has me perplexed. Only thing I have going for me is low weight and 2.4 that is tuned to screaming output.

when we used to run the old rules where 914s competed against 914s that is what happened. when you buddies (direct competitors) were running for time we would be at the wall cheering them on for each of their 3 laps.
it was all good clean fun.
now almost no one does it since a lot of the time you really don't know who your competitors are just by looking at the cars

I think that is part of the current problem why not many folks run for times.

Like to return to the cheering.

I think the first TT at TH this year will be wonderful.


KT

Brant knows, i have spent a lot of time trying to build a car for a specific class. I can put flares on my car, say wow it looks nice, and now i am running against full carbon body purpose built race cars. Takes a lot of fun out of it.

I think the difference isnt as much between street and not, but autocross and racing. Just my personal opinion of course, but there seems to be a difference when comparing not only times, but having that car blow by you on the track. I run in the second slowest class in PCA club racing (which usually makes me on paper, the slowest car there, havent seen a 1.7/1.8 class K car yet). I know i get frustrated sometimes because of that, but at least in PCA, you find some people about your speed, and you race. Since there are no prizes for winning, it is more building a car that runs in a run group with cars about your speed, not so much a class.

I am competitive enough that class matters to me. I also know that to do one little change that would put me in I, means a lot more money (and skill) that i dont have, to be competitive, so i happily stay where i am.

Just my thoughts..

I think you should build to class, unless you have an unlimited budget.

I race in PCA class GT-5. When we went with a new engine in our car, from the 2.4/4 to a 6, we had to make decisions on the size. My ego and testoserone said a 3.4. But...that would put me in GT3. I'd been watching club racing for a while, and the GT3 class cars are always in the back of the run group with the Cup cars....and not looking like they were having a lot of fun. Oh, there was one GT3 class car that normally competitive in the group....he had over $150k in the car!

GT4 is amazingly competitive and I'd be spending years getting good at it.

So, we backed off and built a 2.2. Puts me in the top of GT5, I run with a lot of stock class cars on the same group, and have an absolute blast. I'm middle of the pack in the group, but I've won my 2 races so far in my class. That's not what matters most; it's the dicing it up with other cars, the racing, the passing.

Trust me, I love speed. And maybe some day I'll step up the engine to bigger and better. But for now, we built the PCA race car for class.

We did that too for the Targa Newfoundland/HSR car. There is a limit in which you can do mods, and we pushed the car to the limit. We did pretty well in Targa (11th place overall), but have more ideas how to do better next year. And we're still working on the specs for HSR....should be running the Walter Mitty this year...hopefully.

So it just depends what you want....the question you have to ask yourself:

Do you want to be FAST, or do you want to be COMPETITIVE.....