Open season. I'm starting out with a shift handle part from an Eclipse. I need all sorts of help. Whatever advice you want to stick to me. I've got heim joints and push-pull cables are on order.

I need to figure out a mounting method. Shifting. Everything. I would like to put in this regeared 901 tailshifter I've got. But I have a sideshifter now. I want to have my car out of commision for the absolute minimum amount of time, but I want to do the clutch with the tranny. And I would like to have the new shifter in place first. Is there any way I can cableshift the sideshifter using the same mechanism that I would use to cableshift the tailshifter?

And remember. I don't ask for this kind of advice often. As long as nobody tries to convince me not to do it, it's all good. Whatever you got.

I don't have an answer to your question, but perhaps this website might give you some insight.

http://www.etischer.com/914cableshift.html

some insight ???

wow - that is awesome.

jim

Call Renegade Hybrids. He has somewhat perfected the cable shifter. I bought a WEVO but might have used his if I didn't go the other route

Alpha,
I think all of the ideas on that page are great.
Except the huge ass piece of 1/4 plate steel on the tranny.

Use aluminum and tig weld up something light and nice.

There is also in the archives here...search alot, eventually you will find it.
and article about making up a really nice setup for the tail shifter.

Rich

Here's a few pics of my 930 cable shift design. These pics were taken before all welds were completed and powder coated...(the square "reciever hitch piece" is a jack point for lifting the entire rear of the car)

You say you want no naysayers but in this case I gotta say it If you can run a bar linkage like the stock stuff, don't bother with the cable stuff. I did a cable shifter because I really had no other choice, but even tho' it is "pretty good" now, it still isn't as solid as my old side-shift trans with stock linkage frankly.

I was going to build a bar linkage from stock stuff and so forth but with the V8 and sprint car headers, blah blah I would have needed a few rose joints and some sort of a reversal to the pattern to make that happen which can make for a vague shifter, so I went cables in that case. I still have to do a reversal to get the pattern "right side up" with my late-model shifter, yours may not require that.

Not trying to be a dick, but I would recommend a simple bar linkage over cables if you can swing it. I promise I would take my stock 914 side-shift feel over the cable shifter feel I have right now given I have a pretty solid system worked out now.

Getting a cable shifter to work well is a matter of designing it right and a good deal of adjsutments. I've had my cable shifter installed for a few months now and it works reasonably well, but I have no reverse lockout, and the side-to-side motion is vague. I know what I need to do to fix it, but its definitely not plug and play, and will require adjustments.

Here are some photos of my installation.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...1579&st=380

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...1579&st=360

My favorite part of the shifter is that its mounted considerably higher up than the stock shifter.

One thing to keep in mind... The front-back motion cable should be big, but the side-side motion cable can be much smaller, as there is much less force on that motion. Having a smaller cable means less resistance and therefore more precise shifting. Switching to a smaller side-side cable is on my list of things to do. If you look at the cable shifters in 996s, they have a smaller side-side cable.

Try fguring out a reverse lockout. Make sure the centering springs on the shifter are good and strong. My MR2 shifter's spring is not too strong, which makes the difference between the 4-5 and 2-3 slots a little tricky to find. Again this has to do with the side-side cable being too big.

-Tony

edit: one more thing... Make sure whatever you do at the transmission end is the right orientation for your shifter. i.e. front to back gets translated properly, as well as side-side. Otherwise you'll end up with 4-5 towards you, and 1-R on the passenger side, or you'll flip the 1-3-5 and R-2-4 front to back.

Do a search for Bondo's cable shifter, in my opinion it is one of the finest so far. If you have access to a CNC mill. He even had an animated GIF once upon a time showing how the whole thing worked... pretty slick...
I copied his design.

I agree. My cable system works well but probably not as well/reliably as the factory sideshift in perfect working order.

here is the link to Royce's shifter thread...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...l=cable+shifter

Excellent.

My guy, Al just gave me detailed pics of an install in a 917.

So what about ideas? What features make the perfect cable shifter?

Like any shifter (or any mechanical design), I think the big thing is close tolerances in all of your machined parts. Just a couple .030" tolerances ad up to vague shifter when the handle length multiplies in, so regardless of design, you need tight tolerances on your parts IMO. Because I had somewhat limited access to "quality" machines and tools since I was lucky enough just to have a buddy to let me use his lathe and bridgeport, my tolerance stackups are what cause my vagueness. And as Tony mentioned, the side to side is cake so that is right on for me, but the fore/aft is where the tolerances get pushed around under the force of actually engaging the synchros and that is where I feel a little softness, or squishy feel so to say.

when it is running it isn't bad and not too noticeable as the synchros are working, but cold and sitting in the garage good luck getting it in first without feeling about a 1/4" of squish. A solid linkage wouldn't do that or if I had really tight tolerances I wouldn't feel that much give I suspect. That 930 box I have shifts like an f'in 1949 GMC dumptruck so that doesn't help much

Alpha,

After I drove Aarons car with a Renshifter. All new bushings and appropriately
dialed in. I can't see how a cable shifter could be any better.

His car shifts perfectly AND fast. I can bang gears if I choose to.

What are you trying to do, that a cable shifter is needed..???

NOTE: I was going to do a cable shifter also. Until I realized that a basicly stock setup that is tweaked properly, with a Renshifter is BETTER than any cable shifter that I have driven or seen in other fellas cars.. IMHO.

And with the Renshifter....you get a reverse lock out if you desire.

You could probably make a Renshifter STYLE shifter from a a B&M mustang shifter. You have the smarts to do this. And the tools to do it.

I understand that at close to 500 bucks not everyone can buy a James Adams Shifter. I will tell you that they are just Sooo good for these cars. makes a heap "O" differance.

Let us know how it goes bro......
Clayton

I had a similar experience when mocking up my solid shifter rod for a custom non 901 application. It only takes a very small (with the empasis on small) amount of slop in any of the joints and anchor points to where the solid rod becomes way too vague. Aircraft quality u-joints are essential. The stock 914 design is quite good. Replacing bushings and other components will tighten everything up quite nicely.

I can't agree that cables are vage when properly done. Virtually every front drive late '70's thru somewhere around the early '90's Toyota uses cables without any vagueness. Don't forget the boxster cables as well.

Andys

Andys

I don't disagree that factory cable shift cars aren't as vague - they tend to design the trans so the cables can be short and direct linear motion. So for instance I have to make adapter pieces to make the 930 work and that "patching" is where you can introduce vagueness.

If you look at a Boxster transmission for instance, the cables are reasonably short and have direct linear motion to their inputs to the trans. Any reversing and so forth is internal in the trans itself which means they have designed the trans to work best with cables. And they design the tower to have the correct motion with the necessary input.

On the other hand, I have a 930 trans that is now backwards. The stock 930 had a simple, straight bar that went straight into the trans nice and direct. Now I have to reverse the motion fore-aft because I turned the 930 around to fit the 914. And it has a single input to work with bar whereas I am now using two inputs (2 cables) because while a bar can twist to chose the H-pattern, I only have linear motion.

However, make some very nice, well-designed piece components and use a shifter that reverses the motion internally (I used a Boxster shifter and would recommend finding one that controls the fore/aft cable ABOVE the pivot point, then you don't have to make a rocker to reverse the direction again like I did) and it shouldn't feel vague.

So above the tight tolerance comment I made earlier, I would add getting a shifter that best matches the output motion to the motion necessary to shift, and minimize the quantity of components. Simple = best for any design.

Bill - if you are following this link still, what shifter did you use? IIRC you don't have to reverse the fore/aft motion, implying the cable is driven above the pivot point of the shift handle...

My fore/aft motion is reversed and I'm using an MR2 shifter that drives the cable from above the pivot point. For a 901, it needs to be below the pivot point to retain the stock shifting pattern. The side-side motion is correct though.

-Tony

I used the Mitzubishi 3000 shifter and modified it so the connection for the fore/aft cable is now above the pivot point of the shifter itself...thereby eliminating the need for a reversal "monkey motion" device. Hey Tony, Is the MR2 shifter housing made from steel or plastic? Is it a well designed and strong with little slop? Do you think it will get stressed from shifting a 930 box? I agree with Tim. 930 boxes shift like a 1949 GMC dumptruck and sometime require a bit of grunt to snap it into gear. You need to have that familiar snap/pop when you know it is firmly in gear. I might just upgrade to a shifter that has very tight tolerances. Although I rebuilt my shifter with factory OEM new bushings, it still has a small bit of slop.

Good call Tony, I get in my own "little 930 world" and forget that Chris is talking about a 901 that internally reverses the motion Funny, sounds like you need to use my Boxster tower to have the right motion for your sideshift and I need your MR2 shifter to match my backwards 930
Oh, just previewed and saw Bill's reply - and I kinda would like to extend that a bit and ask you to show a pick of your tower if you could with your cable setup. You may have it in another thread somewhere and if so just post a link would be cool too. My next project was to look for a shift tower with the pivot below the output and get rid of my "monkey motion" - ahahah, but that is where all of my play comes from frankly so I want to 86 that. The Boxster shifter is nice and looks good IMO in the car, but function overrides form in this case.....

My re-done Mitzu 300 shifter before (with a little "monkey motion" added) and after.

After touching base with Royce, I went to the local Pick-You-Pull and got three different cable shifters; early '80's Toyota, Late '80's Toyota, and a MR2. The MR2 has the selector anchor above the pivot; the others are below. The least "tight" is the MR2, but I suspect that has more to do with how much use they've seen. The early '80's is the tightest of them. BTW, the Toyota cables are pretty dinky.

For a 930 application, I'm guessing you need a pretty stout cable to deal with its heavy action, though that is dictated by the amount of travel offered by the shifter. I've usually tried to use the longest throw (lever arm) on both ends to minimize the loading on the cable. An added benefit of that is it reduces the vagueness that results when otherwise using short lever arms.

Bill, what size cable are you using for your 930 application?

byndbad914, the Delorean uses a simple bellcrank to reverse the direction. Trouble is that it adds two more joints and a pivot point that may contribute to the slop factor. The Rennegade shifter uses a similar device.

Andys

I'm using McMaster-Carr 5/16"

I use McMaster Carr 1/4-28 threaded cables, though I really want to go with something half the size for the side-side motion.

I'm also not thrilled with the MR2 shifter. Its a bit sloppy, and I intend to make my own shifter similar to a Boxster shifter using bearings etc. I have to agree with others about the addition of slop in the system. Its critical to use bearings and good bushings everywhere. Really though the dominant source of slop seems to be within the transmission. I've been very careful with my setup and have nearly zero slop in the linkage, or in the par that converts motion at the transmission. In that sense its not possible to get rid of slop without gating the shifter, something else I'm planning on doing.

In any case a fully custom shifter will help with a lot. Its just going to require a fair amount of machining. I also want to put magnetic hall switches on the shifter so I can have a numerical readout of which gear I'm in.

I'll try to find pictures of my shifter tower and post. I have a bunch at home, but I think there are one or two on line somewhere.

-Tony

Here are a couple pictures.

First, the shifter tower. The plate on the top is a 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate that I machined to fit the MR2 shifter parts. The stamped steel plate was used as a template. The parts of the shifter are then bolted from the bottom side. That plate is them bolted to an aluminum box which mounts to the center tunnel. Its not the nicest looking setup and if I had access to the right tools I could have put something nicer together. In any case, the base of the shifter sits somewhere between 8 and 10 inches off the center tunnel. I've now got a padded, upholstered console that covers the whole thing.

Not for the motion conversion piece. This particular design has a double set of bearings for the in/out motion so there is very little slop there. On a future design I will use a pair of sealed tapered bearings to really get the slop down to zero. I put extra holes in various places to allow for adjustability. The slider is made from a block of nylon plastic and makes a nice tight fit.

Here are the three shifters I picked up at Pick-You-Pull, FYI.

Andys

BTW Tony and Bill,

Do you have a photo of where the cables pass thru the firewall? I'd like to see how you did it.

Thanks,
Andys

Andys - just FYI I am using 5/16" low-friction McMaster-Carr cables with my 930 as well. Those cables have around 200lbs of push capability (and way more pull obviously).

Tony - if you use the Boxster shift tower, you might want to actually go up in the fore/aft cable to 5/16" as you will discover you can buy a 5/16" quick release (looks like you have a quick release on your fore/aft right now too) and that size fits the "ball" on the end of the shift arm perfectly. I also used 5/16 for side/side because I could simply screw a 5/16" fine thread capscrew bolt into the plastic part that the Boxster cable fit on and since the load is all shear, it won't pull it out. You would have to see it to see what I mean, but it is very easy to use 5/16" cables with that tower but they are a bitch to route since they are so stiff.

Course I live out here in CO now whereas you coulda swung by and saw mine just a month ago! But you could remove your fore/aft rocker mechanism which will clean that setup up quite a bit.

Bill - I remember seeing your tower now and the parts you welded after we talked about moving the output above the pivot I like the setup you came up with for the trans input, nice and direct too. must...get...rid...of...rocker...bullsh!t...

I would really like to find a shift tower that actually looked nice bare (which is why I picked the Boxster tower) and had the output v. pivot in the right spot to work with. I like how it looks without any coverup.

andys: I just put mine through the hole where the stock shift rod goes through.

Bynd...: Those quick disconnects are nice. Makes adjusting things a lot easier.

-Tony

I am running a V8 with a 930 and started out with a renegade shifter unit, I ended up tossing the shifter and using a MR2. The hardware at the transmission end by Renegade works good .
If I were to build a unit I would make a mock setup, have a transmission out of the car and work off of short cables. Set up the shifter just in-front of the trans maybe mounted on a 2x6. This way you could see all the action first hand, find out what works best. Building in the car just adds a lot of space between the shifter and the transmission. Cable length is just a mater of measuring when you get the system working on the bench. My shifter works great but it did take a long time working out the bugs.