So heres the deal. I have been trying to convince my dad of either a soobie, v8, and other ideas and he has denied.

He finally semi-caved in today....he said we need more power

I told him we should get the new Binford 87000......just kidding.

he wants to keep the 1.8 L-jet that we have in our 75 but just do things to the engine and not replace it. He wants to spend about 4k for as much power as we can get.

I figured you guys would know what to do. Let me know ideas/costs/ and HP.

You guys are the greatest!!!! Let me be blessed with your words of wisdom.



-Peter
1975 1.8 w/ L-Jet

First you might want to join Jake Rabys site and get info from him on what kit

you can get for your money (maybe squeeze a few more bucks out of dear ol

Dad). His kits are very complete and you and your Dad should be able to do it

yourselves. Have fun. Link for jake's below.

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/

Or maybe you can do your own research and come up with something a little unique.
Mark D.

turn that wennie 76hp 1.8L Ljet into a 2056cc 115hp ripsnortin Ljet monster! Yeah Baby! It will look totally stock but have mega hp, enough to make any driver weak in the knees!

Can you say, Raby engine Kit?

because with 4K you will easily be able to do your own R&D, have the machine work and anything else done and still utilize your 1.8 and have a long reliable power plant

Thanks guys. I do have Rich at HPH about two minutes from my house. But im afraid if I go there...my budget will quickly be exceeded.

I'd buy a use 3.0l six, but that's just me.

What you really have to do is start cutting the car apart when he's not home and then you'll have to go through with your project since its a sin to not finish a project




Seriously, for you constraints I think Geoff has the best suggestion; 4K should build a pretty nice 2056. If you can convince him to get rid of the L-Jet you can get even more power with a more radical cam.

That sounds like what i should do. BUt from what Geoff said i need a 2L to start with? is that true? is there anything for the 1.8?

I did a lot of research on what it would cost to drop in a 6. A good 3.0 will cost 4K - 4500. Then the cost of the 6 conversion will really add up...

If you can live without heat 600 for the headers.... or hold onto your shorts 1800 for heat exchangers...

Oil tank will cost about 1K ... 500 if you want the one that mounts in the front of the car...

Oil cooler, mounts, tach recalibration / replacement... It is no where near the 4K mark... It is actually cheaper to put in a v8.

I'd do the suspension and brakes first. Maybe even a 5 lug conversion. Safety first, add +acceleration next. That's what I am doing and I am glad that I did.

You will need a 2.0 crank and rods, keep an eye out in the classifieds I've seen

them there. A set of 96's(pistons and cylinders) for a 2.0. The 1.8 heads will

work but if you happen on a set of 2.0's that would be cool. I only sudjest Jake's

kit because it will have everything in it but you can do it yourself (I have) and

there are plenty of people here that are great wrenches and could answer your

Q's as they come up. Up to you in the end.

I looked on his website at the 2056 kit. There wasnt much of a description for it, so does that kit work for the 1.8 or is it universal or what?

-peter

1.8 = 66mm crank by 93mm bore (iirc)
2.0 = 71mm crank by 94mm bore
2056 - 71mm crank by 96mm bore.

so.. you need a 2l crank, and rods. your 1.8 rods will NOT fit a 2.0 crank.
pistons and cylinders, you need to have your german cylinders bored and honed to 96mm and get some keith black 96mm pistons and rings, OR buy the cheaper AA imports 96mm piston/clinder kit .

heads, 2.0 will make up to 10% more power or so due to design and spark plug location. your 1.8 heads will fit a 96mm cylinder with no machining.

do some research and you will see how easy it is.

It is already looking a lot easier than I anticipated....couple more questions though...

will the 2.0 head bolt to the 1.8 block?
so all i need to create the 2056-
--2L crank and 2L rods
--96mm pistons
--have cylinders bored to 96mm..(would you recommend getting them bored or getting the AA kit?) are the AA really poorly made?
--and 2.0 head to increase hp

--waht about the 9950 raby cam? I am not too much of a electronic sav. so megasquirt i think is kinda out of the picture. will the stock FI work with all of these components?

I'm pretty sure Raby's 2056 kit comes with everything you need except ignition, induction, exhaust, case and some other "outside" stuff. So You need to have a complete or semi complete engine to start with. I'd go with that, because you'd pretty much have a brand new, reliable engine. There's still the labor part though.

Have your cylinders bored out is better.

Labor? Make it a father/son project! Dave Hunt and his son Jerry did it. My son and I have done it on 3 engines now.

I have some nice, nearly new 2.0 cylinders you could have for cheap. I also know where you could get a late 2.0 motor with new top end for under a grand, then you could spend $3K on suspension. Then you would have your heads, pistons and crank in one shot, if you wanted to do more work than swap motors

Could you do 2056 and keep the stock L jet? I suppose you could, I went from1588 to 1641 on a type 1 with stock L jet and it woekd out pretty good...

re the rods...when you're pricing out jakes stuff look into a set of his 2.0 rods. you can get a set of reworked matched stockers (i think there are 3 flavors) w/cryo for not a whole lot of extra. my guess is he will have a std/std 2.0 crank available too. i think for 4k you can get all the goods you need and not break the bank. prob squeeze in a new clutch package too.

k

Get the Raby/McMark 5K motor.

The blocks are interchangeable. So everything from 1.7 to 2.0 will bolt to it. The AA P/C kits need machining IIRC. Since the AA cylinders are taller than stock and the piston offset it wrong, they need to be decked to get a reasonably high compression. The, when you look at that machining your cylinders isn't too much more expensive than decking the AA cylinders.

L-Jet is a very good FI system to tune with. It can handle more of a cam than D-Jet can, but the 9550 seems like it should be good for your purposes. If you go the 2056 route (you could also go for a 1911 BTW, thats 96mm P/Cs on 1.8 rods) people here know how to tune it very well.

Peter, the combo you are contemplating is what I am currently building (see here). If you want to run the L-Jetronic be sure to get a pair of 2.0 FI intake runners if you use 2.0 heads. I would reccommend the 2.0 heads for the extra bang, otherwise you'll float closely around the 100hp mark with those 1.8 heads, their tiny valves and spark plug location.

For about a grand you could probably get a pair of good used heads, nother couple hundred for crank and rods (but if you're buying a new crank, might as well go 78.4mm with stock rod journals, stock 2.0 rods.) and when you order your cam from raby make sure you call it in and tell him what you're using for a crank.

If you're not having the case machined, headwork done or buying a whole new engine you can easily have a nice 2.1 LJet motor for under $4k. I'm only into mine for about $2k but I started with a whole 'nother 2.0 longblock.

I may be unique here......but I have gone from a worn out 1.7 to 2056....which felt like a turbo after the 1.7! and after a year it WAS NOT enough, what was a 1st, 2nd gear car turned into a 1st 2nd 3d gear car .......my $.02 is save for another year.....go with a six, with the 200hp 6 it will be a 1st 2nd 3d 4th HOLY SHIT! I need to slow down car! it is what I am doing now and once you are setup for a six getting more HP is EASY.....just buy another engine...sky is the limit.

Now I have nothing AGAINST the hybrid conversion's....but in the end, lets say you want to sell your car? You will get your $$$ out of the "true Porsche" conversion VS the hybrid route.....+ I guess I am some what the snob there too.....I like the Porsche to be a PORSCHE!!

Josh

So far as the "inexpensive" 6 is concerned didn't Trekkor do it for about 4k??

is your 75' emission test exempt?

k

I'm with Kevin, above...

You live in Kalifornication, so if this is a street car, make certain you don't have to smog that 75'...

Any of the above options will probably not pass smog...

2-OH!

Very interesting perspective. So you're saying that the 2056 was very satisfying/"felt like a turbo after the tired 1.7" at first.

But then, after a year, it wasn't enough anymore?

This is similar to something a lot of six-conversion guys have said. The trick four was just the first step, as though the first step down the hp road puts you onto a very slippery slope. I just wonder if there is a big kernal of truth here or if it is a personality thing...

So I don't think you're unique -- BUT, I have to wonder if this is a temptation the average guy or girl will be susceptible to, or one that primarily afflicts hp nuts. I wonder how many of those who are not in to hp so much have sat on the four/six fence due to the fear of doing a four (2056 or 2270) worth 125-150 hp only to find it underwhelming...

Not sure we'll find the answer here -- and the last thing we need is another four vs. six debate. What would be nice is to hear more testimonials from 2056 and 2270 owners WITHOUT comments or attacks from six people.

Josh, thanks for posting your perspective.

pete

Or just get an engine kit from Jake and build it yourself with the help from his vids!

This is for $4k right and you can't do a six for $4k unless the motor is damn near free or you go the HomeDepot route to plumb it.

I have a 2056 and its plenty of hp for what it is...plus I decided that my car is staying a 4. I might do a big six later but it will be in a six.
I have a MSzd box so its a 1,2,3,4 car with lots of zoom, enough to get you in trouble.
Now it you want that Shelby cobra Zoom just get a 3.2L or bigger six to start with.....nothing less will satisfy you.

back to on topic...get the 2056 kit or build your own sourcing the 2.0L crank,rods and buy new raby heads,raby cam, get 96 pistons fit your cylinders and run Ljet as you have it. Locate those 2.0L runners to make it work.

yeah, it is

Sorry to get back to you all late....just got back from practice.


so, yes my car is smog exempt..thank goodness


also, i dont want to go with the six because it is too much money and i want to stay with the four.

and I think from what you guys have told me....although the raby kit im sure is nothing less than exceptional, I think i am gunna try and source my own parts. I will do this becasue i want to keep it under 4k and still have some room to add a little suspension.

still deciding if i am gunna try and put it together myself. Althought I am sure i could do it with the help of you guys...but doing something this big i really dont want to screw it up and have my car on jackstands for years. I do have a couple 914 specialist around my area including Rich at HPH.

so here is the list of parts i think i am gunna go with.(let me know what i am missing...or dont need)

-96mm KB pistons(will have cylinders machined)
-2.0L crank
-2.0L rods
-2.0L FI intake runners
-2.0L heads
-Raby 9950 cam


I think thats it. The project is still not a 100% go. but more like 95%. My dad will make the final decision but he is being more and more interested so I think it will be a go.

last questions. anyone know how much it would be to pay someone to get it built...keeping in mind that i will be providing all the parts??

thanks alot. you guys have helped.


-Peter

Hey hey,

I want to state that this is NOT a 4/6 debate....so far as I am concerned. It is a get what you "want" debate....and $4k is not chump change!....slap on a set of 96mm's and add carbs + exhaust + C-25 cam is only about 1500 bucks shopping around for the exhaust....no biggy and you have 120 hp +(-) mine would ALWAYS start with carbs and though a little "moody" was reliable. you are saying $4k.....

I guess what I was/am trying to say is that.... EVERY one I know who is a car guy....WANTS POWER!! Yes it was nice but it is STILL not enough....with a 4 cly. (just my experience here) there is only so far you can go...Jake Raby engine or not...and it will NEVER last as long as a 6....period! Porsche used the 6 for MANY years in air cooled form and did it very successfully too! SO It is up to you??? I mean you can go the route I went and spend $4k +( I had to have EVERYTHING new.....) to build a engine that will be nice....if YOU know that a "lil" more will suffice and YOU have no desire for a smokin fast car then great!! That is good. BUT if you like to go fast, do drivers ed with Porsche club, have a desire to blow more than a few "modern cars" away on the streets...(at the right times of course...) then why waste your money? You'll never get it out of your 4 cylinder....I recouped very little of my initial investment when I parted mine out! and when the time is right you'll still have to pony up the $4k + 2-4k more??(yes EBAY some schtuff and keep the eyes open you could do it!)

BUT I will say that the 2056 felt GREAT at first....Do a wee bit of homework, go find some local guys who have what you want and then ride in a 6.......let your Butt be the judge!

BTW If I had it to do over again I would have saved the cash I put into my 4 endeavors and dumped it into a six....BUT I didn't follow my own advice.....all it took was a trip in a 6 and I HAD to have it!!

Thats it out of me, sorry if I pissed any of you off but I am an opinionated ass so whatcha guy to do??

Josh

I bought a wrecked 1983 911SC for $4k. Engine and suspension, brakes, etc. went into my car. Then I sold $1k worth of other parts off the 911, that I used to put it in. Those deals are rare I admit, but the car runs great.

for me its all about staying in a fun class with my friends, or else its just boring.

We only have a handful of 914's that autox here, and we all run in the "stock' class, and no one ever disputes anyone elses car, cause its all for a 2 dollar trophy...

So, 4k...
And your asking for someone to build the motor.
Well, step up to 5k and have McMarck build one for you.
I am sure he will work with you on a very very peppy motor that you can bolt right in, and I am sure he will help you work within your budget.

Rich

I highly recommend that you listen to Jake's radio show on the budget 2056 build, up to 120hp heads, valve trains, and any of the others you find interesting.

Also, another good exercise to do is to download Jake's 2056 kit spreadsheet. It lists every part that comes with a kit. You can use that to make your own part's list. Once you look at it and add it all up, you'll see that Jake's kits are very comprehensive.

Also, you need to budget for balancing the rotating assembly and a new clutch.

Peter,

If you are not going to do this work yourself you may find it hard to find a mechanic to want to do it for you if you bring him the parts as he will make no mark up on the parts plus he will give you no warranty on his work if any thing brakes. Take your time look at the books and do not force anything and ask all the questions. You will be OK. These are not tricky with the cam chains and timing like the 6s. YOU CAN DO IT…

Bob

Can the 1.7 cylinders be bored to 96mm? I've heard of the 2.0 cylinders being bored out for use with the 96mm pistons but are the 1.7 and 1.8 cylinders the same core?

Also, don't forget that if you go with the 2.0 heads you will need the 2.0 sheet metal as the spark plug angle changes.

I just finished my 1911 (66mm stroke with 96mm pistons) and spent around 2.5K. There's a lot of little suff that adds up. that's the nice part of one of Raby's kits. It's all there. You just gotta watch out for the options. I listened to several of Jake's radio shows and decided to go on the cheap for the first time on a T4. Then if I find it necessary, I will go with a big T4. Now that I've finally got it started (haven't driven it yet) I'm sad that it's over. I want to build another.

I never meant to dis the 4, I've been racing a 2056 for 5 years, and it's quicker that the other 914 racecar that I drive with a 2.2S six in it.
My engine is a 2.0 4 with 96's, 38mm & 48mm valves, huge webcam 134c, 11:1 compression, open exhaust, Weber 44's, and balanced to within a gnat's ass.
I love this engine, I love to kick the dog out of 911's with a 4, but it's just not very durable. I've added plenty of cooling, the thing holds 10 quarts of oil, but it still doesn't last like a 6.

No nickies? What wears out?

Peter,

Minor correction. You want the 9550 cam.

You can definitely build out the 1.8. You can use the heads and have them rebuilt. You can send the cylinders to RIMCO for boring (I have a set there now). All new bearings/gaskets and a balance job on the rotating assembly. You can definitely do an engine build in that budget.

Building it yourself is going to be like any other project. Which do you value more... time or money? It's not exceptionally hard to build a motor. But it is time consuming and there are a few 'traps'. Ask our member shaggy about building his motor. He's run into a few hiccups.

What about the heater boxes and exhaust? Do they rob much power when the 1.8 is upsized?

Paul

Go 1911! Spend the money saved on a set of 2.0 heads and Tangerine Header!!
You WILL be pleased.

Mark RIMCO bores jugs? I didnt know that how much?
also did anyone answer the Q re the 90 ->96 & 92->96 (or is it 93) bore jobs?

$145 a set.

1.8 cylinder registers are the same as 2.0 registers (i.e. you can put a 1.8 head on 2.0 cylinders, and visa versa). Of course, that's removing a lot of material.

On Stock 1.7/1.8 HE's yes a little bit compared to the SSI HE's. The 73-74 SSI HE's are the way to go on any non-headered or late HE equiped car.

90mm cylinders can't be bored out to 96's as they are too small.

as budget allows, i think a good used set of ss1.7/1.8 hes and a good muffer will suffice for a 2056 with minimal power loss. they will run about 1/2 the cost of the 2.0s. you can always sell them and move up at a later date. heads are the killer expense. spend as much as you can upfront as the rest of the combo is dependant on that.

k

Peter,

You do not have money so you need to make time plus you will have great pride when it runs great!!

You can get your 4 to be a rocket and pull like a mother. It will never be a 200hp 6 and never sound like that but your budget does not allow for that now. You just have to hold on till you are older and have more bread. That time will come believe me but in the mean time you can build a great engine with the advice of the guys. Focus on what you can do.

I have had a 914-2.0 then went to a 914-4 turbo 2.0 in it, 914 -V-8 , 914-6 3.0 and I have 914-6 #41 now 2.5SS rebuilding. Two handfuls of 911s

When I went to the turbo in the 2.0 it was fast as hell but not that quick.

Bob

ooo

I think that it happens at all ends of the spectrum. I put a 3.6 in my 74 911 and when I first got it it felt like an absolute rocket ship. After having it for about a year and a half now it still seems fast but not the WHOA crap feeling I used to get.

Since the cost to go crazy with a 3.6 is huge I am now going to a LS1 914 for my HP evolution

IJWTS that I've gotten a ride in a 914 with a 2056 and a mild cam. It was a little rocket ship. Made the 914 feel like everything it should have been from the factory.