I found myself really hangin on tight to the wheel while AXing last year because my stock 3 pt belts did not match the G-forces as I cranked through turns. Adding harnesses this year is a MUST, for AX and my late 07-2008 DE/track goal. I plan to keep the OK backpad and drill through it to mount the top straps through the firewall. I also "want" to get long eye bolts that I can bolt through my stock belts at the lower mounts, keep the stock belts, and clip in the lower belts for weekend AX duties.

Sound like an OK plan? Any PCA or SCCA rules to watch out for?

What would youz guyz advize for harness brands and styles?? I want to spend $300 or less for a pair of black 5-point harnesses. How much better is the cam lock vs. latch? Pull up or pull down?

I like the IMPACT Racing 5-pt adjustable latch and the G-Force 5-pt cam so far, these both fit my budget.

Next season PCA will require a race style seat with slots for the shoulder harnesses when using 5 or 6 pt harnesses for DE or TT.

A great resource for harnesses and mounting hardware in Norcal is
www.IOPORTRacing.com

Ken is the owner, former teener racer, and knows his stuff. Carries nice harnesses in latch and camloc styles. Tell him what you need and he can steer you correctly.

good luck.
going to Candlestick on Saturday?

I know it's not exactly what you are looking for, but after the autox at the SR Airport last year, I put in a set of Willans Super Sport harnesses. It's a 4 point with an OEM style latch which makes it easy to use on the street. I got it here http://www.bethania-garage.com/willans_super.htm for $105. I really like them.

Dan - checked IOPort web site and liked the Auotpower, still hoping for cam vs. latch feedback to determine brand for my budget. I'm on track to be at Candlestick, just have to botton up the car a bit. Hopefully no more snags! Re: PCA DE, I'll buy good 5-pts now, seats later. I like the MOMO Start and have seen NRG Carbon seats at 12 lbs for <$500

John - that looks cool and practical but if I am going to drive any of the PCA track events they want 5-pt harnesses with the sub strap...might as well just buy it once and buy it to last. Can't wait to see those new wheels on your car

Don't be surprised if you see me at the next AX asking to to sit in everybody's seat and try out their harnesses

Chris,
I have used latch for years, in every track car I have had. Lets see that would be about 8 cars....
Cam is nice but I prefer the positive lock of the latch systems. I have bought all of my harnesses from IOPORT.
In other cars I have driven and instructed in that have cams. Some of them automatically return to lock position when you release them and some don't ..
I find it easier to place the latch style into place than trying to put a little buckle into the cam mechanism...just my perspective.
Both work fine when used properly.
I have never seen the need to spend the extra money for the same basic need.
happy hunting.

i actually prefer the latch over the cam, but to each his own... if the belts are just for AX, you might consider finding a used harness that is out of date.

i don't know if it includes the hardware or not, but these are cheap:

http://www.saferacer.com/prose5plalih.html

gud plan!

meanwhile, a few tips until you get to the install ...

- get early style non-retractable seat belts. adjust them to a snug fit and you're good to go. they won't budge and hold you in place nicely.

- take out the seat cushion. the side-bolsters will keep your ass firmly seated in the stock seat.

that's what i have been using for years and it *really* helps ...

of course, a 5-point harness is better and may be required for certain events. that's why i'm installing mine right now.
Andy

I have the 5pt latch (pull down) belts from Impact that are going into my car any day now (as soon as it comes back from the f'in mechanic ) as well as new Corbeau Forza seats. I figured that I might as well upgrade it all now in lieu of the impending rule changes for PCA DE.

I personally like the latch better than the cam because I find it easier to get belted in. I've ridden shotgun in a number of race cars with the camlocks, and I find it nearly impossible to fit all the little end pieces into the cam. With the latch, I can do it with my gloves already on and without looking.

Remember the PCA rule is if the drivers seat has a race seat with a 5pt. harness the passenger has to have one if the car is stock and has regular seats you can use stock seat belts but they have to match it was for instructor saftey

yeah, but you don't have to do PCA events. in the event that you track the car, there are a plethora of options outside of PCA.

get a cheap 5-pt that has good dates. install it properly. have fun.

I actually like the cam. But not all cam latches are the same. Yes, the latch is sometimes easier to line up and get locked together. But part of that is (IMHO) that the latch mechanism is larger. For me (not a large person), the latch is too big against my lap, and I find it uncomfortable after a while. The cam, being smaller, isn't digging in as much.

The difference in price wasn't a whole heck of a lot when I bought my harnesses.

As for the 4-pointers?

Having just done a lot of research on 4-pointers, for use in high speed track programs, there would only be one that I would even consider putting into my car. The Schroth Profi. Why? For one, Schroth is the only 4-point harness that incorporates any kind of design to prevent submarining. All other 4-point systems I've see are simply 5 point harnesses without the sub-strap (some have different seat-belt style latches, but they still basically the same). Which, IMHO, make them potentially more hazardous than a working OEM 3 point belt.

A regular harness is fixed, and requires the use of a sub-strap to prevent the passenger from sliding under the lap belt. (I say "passenger", because if you're in a situation where you're relying on the harness to save your a**, you are no longer in control of the car, hence, passenger). Anyway... The shoulder straps of a conventional harness hold your body to the seat, and given that most seats have some degree of layback, they act as a wedge, and can actually -drive- you under the lap belt in an impact. That's why the sub strap is so important in harness systems. Even better to have the 6 point belts and help protect the family jewels.

The only 4 point belt that does anything to prevent submarining under the lap belt is Schroth. One shoulder strap has a small extra loop of fabric sewn in that will "unfold" in an impact. This allows the torso to rotate slightly and force the body to bend slightly at the lap belt, preventing submaringing. And the Schroth Profi is also SFI/FIA rated. The Schroth Rallye (the lower end model) is not SFI/FIA rated.

Still, when all is said and done, I'd prefer a full harness. And my personal preference is for the cam-lock. I have the G-Force cam-lock in my car. Good, but not GREAT. Next harnesses will probably be Sparco or Schroth as their webbing seems to be more comfortable.

-Josh2

Please elaborate

The webbing material is not as supple as that of the Sparco or Schroth, and the belts aren't as easy to adjust. It takes just a little more time to adjust them to fit, but you don't get caviar on a cheetos budget...

-Josh2

Chris:

Get Trekkor to give you a ride in his car. I rode with him once last year and was very impressed with the seats/belts in his car. Also, the sound of the six was fantastic....thanks Trek!

I use a 5 point 3" belt system with a "gooseneck latch". This is an easy system to install and is quicker for ingress/egress than a cam lock.

After years of endurance racing (with many driver changes) we have found the Cam lock much slower. Other issues with the cam lock include plastic/nylon in the construction of the cam mechanism which can deform/wear/tear/melt to contribute to a sticking cam lock. Springs and the mechanism itself are further drawbacks from a safety standpoint.

Some cam lock designs can also be easily unlocked by accidently brushing the lever....usually at the worst moment....latch lock systems are more positively secured...

Cam locks do look cool (better than latch) and are good for auto X, but, for "real" racing there is only one way to go if safety and performance are your primary concerns.

Just my $0.02

Sean

well, i guess i will find out soon ...

my 5-point hernesses came with the cam-lock and i'm going to give it a try ...
Andy

Bill - a ride with Trek was one of my first AX experiences in a 914. Thanks Trek!
I was actually sort of baffled by the cam lock harness and am pleased to hear all the good feed-back on the cheaper option.

If I had to choose one VS the other for budget reasons...
a racing seat holds you in better than a harness on a stock seat

I just up-graded to a momo seat. it was teh BEST up-grade I could have made for AX. now I can use my hands to drive. if you get sticky tires you will need one

Keep in mind, that in lots of autox classes, harnesses are free, but seats aren't.

So if you're looking to stay in a stock, or low points class, you may need to keep the seat stock, and rely on harnesses to keep you planted.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with the latch-lock harnesses. In some ways, they're better as the latch mechanism is less mechanically complicated. But it is bulkier.

-Josh2

I've instructed in and driven in a lot of cars with cam-lock harnesses.
When I bought my most recent belts, I bought latch belts again because I couldn't afford cams, but I really wanted the cams. Now, after experiencing cams, I prefer the latches and that's what I'll buy next time.

PCA zone 8 does not take points for the seat. I understand why some rules might take points for the seat. It really makes that much of a difference in your ability to drive faster. I have to watch my points too. running in CS, I only have 2 left...none now with teh sticky meats

I dont think the cam lock is worth the extra money