I am considering a 3.0 or a 3.2, to replace my 2.7.

The only difference that I know of is that the 3.0 can use the same flywheel and clutch (I currently have an early 911 flywheel). And the 3.2 has a computer for the motronic.

Is there much additional expense to installing a 3.2 vs a 3.0?

Also... Can you use a stock 3.0L clutch and flywheel on a 901trans?

I'm not positive, but I believe the early flywheel can only be used up through the 2.7l engines. 3.0l and above require a "kit" to adapt their flywheels to work with a 901 tranny (Kennedy Engineering makes one).

The 3.2l engine fits nicer in the engine compartment only because the motronic unit has a smaller footprint then the CIS unit on the 3.0l (unless you are carbing it then it doesn't matter).

The 3.0 costs less by $2,000 from the wrecking yards so it depends on the deal you get and where you are getting it. A core is just that. If you need to rebuild it may be no deal. What is better for the dollar is based on the very deal you get on the engine that you end up with. Every deal is different. Scotty B just got a 3.0 with damage that was a deal for him.( he knew going in)

The 3.2 will have the oil fed chain tensioners, the engine will get you 230-240HP with a simple Steve Wong chip put in the Motronic. I have this in my 86 Carrera so I know this to be true. It pulls very nice with this chip over the full power band with no flat spots. Very low cost just drops it in the Motronic. It is like putting in Ram in your computer. I have had 3.0s in 5 different 911scs of different years and my 86 Carrera is faster. The truth is if you get a nice engine in good shape you will be very happy of the out come of a 914 with either. But if you are putting in a 3.0 without oil fed chain tensioners put them in and if the CIS box does not have airbox pop-off valve, put one in. It is not if, it is when they will go out.

You may find a 3.0 with up grades and rebuilt.

Good luck

Bob

I prefer the 3.2's. However a well maintained 3.0 in good condition would be a good one.

Like I said, I prefer the 3.2. If I had the money, I would prefer the 3.6!

I read your blog on the 3.2L convert, but I didn't see any details on the clutch. What did you use for a trans/clutch/flywheel?

I used the Carrera flywheel, a Kennedy pressure plate and disc.

It's mated to a fresh 901 gearbox with a billet intermediate plate. For the street, It should hold up for a long time.

I've had the pleasure of driving and working on two conversion-6's, both with the 3.2 engine and injection. To add to the previous mentioned positives, the Motronic injection is obviously newer than CIS thus parts are readily available. CIS metering heads as well as other components are getting harder to come by, not to mention the rebuild/core requirement on some parts can get really expensive.

A 3.0 with carbs could save you a couple grand, which can get you some of the other big ticket items to complete the conversion. Its a tough call, the power, reliability, economy, and driveability of the Motronic 3.2 is hard to surpass.

Cheers, Don.

Does anyone know what would be needed to go from a 2.7cis w/901 and an early flywheel to a 3.0L w/cis (comes with stock flywheel/clutch)? Would I need to get the kennedy pressure plate? If so, how much is it?

The 2.7 flywheel has six bolts that hold it onto the crank. The 3.0 and 3.2 (and I think 3.6 for that matter!) ones have 9 bolts.

The 3.0+ flywheels do not fit correctly into the 901-based gearbox. You need a "converter flywheel" from Kennedy (or elsewhere). The Motronic will need some sensor teeth on the flywheel, I think?

The EFI on the 3.2 is definitely A Good Thing. You'll recoup the costs in fuel economy over the course of a few years, I believe, and the responsiveness should be better. Not to mention more power....

The 914's gearbox is often considered somewhat marginal for a 3.2 engine. It apparently can deal with the 3.0 better, or at least for longer. (And forget the 3.6 + 901; from the reports I've heard you'll be detonating transmissions every other month.) So you might, depending on your own inclinations, need to add a 915 conversion into your budget with the 3.2 motor. But in that case, the flywheel and clutch from a Carrera that had a 915 transmission will work just fine, so no need for adaptor flywheels.

--DD

Um Dave,

I'm currently using a stock 3.2 flywheel in mine with a 901. The ONLY parts from Kennedy are:

Starter ring (bolts to stock flywheel with sensor ring)
Pressure Plate
Clutch Disc

These items were purchased 15+ years ago when I first did a 3.2 conversion with a 901. That one now has a 915 and the original parts went back on it.

The flywheel on the 3.2 works just fine.

just my $0.02

You cannot just toss the carbs. out there as cheep. If you do not get a good price on a set of used that are working good a new set is going to cost you $3200. and Webber's are not that easy to come up with in good shape. It is a real cost so I think the 3.2 with the mo. is a good Engen. In the evolution the Carrier was an improvement over the 3.0

Bob

Thanks for the info guys...

I put some good time and $$$ into the 2.7, so I'll run that for now and keep my eyes out for a good 3.2 later on.

The 3.0L has more potentional than a 2.7L, but similiar initial horse. The wise investment seems to be the 3.2L for longevity (just watch for broken divlar head studs).

I think you have to modify your bellhousing (cut a big notch) to fit the motoronic sensor for the 3.2.

What did you do for this John?

I went with the 3l because it fit my budget but I would definitely go 3.6 if I had the cash.

I know that there Rich Johnson offers different mountds forhte 2.0-3.0 and the 3.2-3.6 but I don't know what the difference is.

I used a hacksaw, a die grinder and some files to make my sensor notch. No big deal. The trans case cuts very quickly and easily.

The difference between the mounts for the various engines is the part that bolts to the engine case. Early cases have one bolt/stud pattern and later cases have a different one. One stud/tapped hole is relocated in the later cases.

If the RJ engine mounts are similar to mine, I use the 911 engine mount that came with the motor as the basis.

I think it depends on induction.

A 3.0 with CIS is roughly 180hp. With headers (which would be required in a 914) you're looking at a strong factory 200. Not bad. If you decide to move into carbs. you can probably squeeze out another 10hp with the current CIS cams.

Now... anything beyond that will cost you some dough and it may be more advantageous to look into the 3.2.

Why? The CIS cams are limited and not well suited for carbs. Hey... 210hp aint bad from a bolt in package but, if you want 250 or more you'll need cams. When you get cams you'll find out in short order you'll need new pistons to keep the valves from hitting what you've got. Cams = $6-700 bucks. Pistons = $1-2000.

If you can live happily with a 3.0 with the cams advanced a bit and with carbs and headers, you should be fine. Let's face it, it's almost 100hp more than a stock six had in the day. Not bad and... it should run forever.

If you want more juice than that... go large, either with the 3.0 or the 3.2. You can see how the extra $2k for a 3.2 could get spent on a 3.0 with the right induction.

So what is stock horse on a 3.2?
And what kind of bolt ons can you add to it?

207-231hp depending on year and spec (US, RoW, Japan). It sounds like headers and the steve wong chip will get you 50+hp, for less than 1k.

84, US spec, with headers, mass airflow, and autothority chip?

930/21 ... USA/JAPAN ..... 207 HP @ 5900 RPM ..... dead ass stock

Cool, I didn't realize that would work! Hmm, maybe I mis-remembered the exact adaptor parts needed?

--DD

great question.....
i am running a 3.0 with stock induction on the harlot....which required some fandangling to fit...i dropped the whole drive train one inch to clear
but zee next car....vill be
a 3.2 with slightly modified induction...with hopes of running larger displacement,
the advantage is the 3.2 induction will handle larger displacements and the induction fits inside the bay....or so " they say"
but between the two..i wish i had the 3..2

For Pete and others. The 3.0 engine can easily be built into a screaming 3.2 which is what I intend to do with mine. As stated previously my engine was known damaged and I got this to replace an UNdamaged 2.7 I had slated for the teener. WHY?? Because the 3.0 is a vastly superior engine to the 2.7 in my opinion. I won't bore you with the tech aspects ( Reactors, stretched case etc.) 3.0 engines hold up VERY well in stock configuration and are very buildable. 3.2 and up is acheived with the normal P&C swaps which also allow for higher compression if desired. Mine as planned will be around 275 h.p. Yes it gets expensive to "build up" but if you start out cheap enough,and can handle much of the werk yourself it can be well worth it!

That was my main reason to want to upgrade to the 3.0L, but its sounds like the extra 2k for the 3.2L will be worth it.

More hp

This started life as a 79SC 3.0, now a 3.12
3.0 flywheel, Kennedy starter ring and stage 2 clutch and pressure plate and release bearing.

you can't turbo a 3.12

I reccommend the 3.2 as well. Keep the motronic. If you want a little more pep, go with 964 cams. While you have the heads off go with a slight bump in compression.

Put it back together, and have fun!

FWIW, my stock 3.2 is stupid fast and works perfectly with the 901. That being said, I have opened it up next to some 3.0's(VegasRacer ) and the biggest difference in who is in front is who hits the gas quicker. The motors run really close. My motor is bone stock and is reported to have about 90k miles on it.

Just for fun, here is the conversion thread - 3.2 conversion

If this picture doesn't give you major wood, you are just not a car guy.

Agreed....

What does Vegas racer have on his 3.0L (carbs/cam/comp ratio)? I guess stock 3.0 vs stock 3.2 is only 20hp, but I would think the motronic would have more low end.

AFAIK his engine is stock with stock injection. I haven't heard mention of any mods that he has done. I could be wrong of course.

I guess I'm not a car guy then. I like mine better. (mainly because it's MINE).

That 901 box looks like a timebomb on that turbo engine.

BTW, I drove mine today.......

If I buy some 914-6 headers and an M&K exhaust for my 2.7L, there is no reason why I couldn't use it on a 3.2, right? besides adding an o2 sensor.

edit: btw- Has anyone with a 3.2 modified or not had it dynoed?

The headers and the exhaust should fit fine. (I use 1 3/4" Headers on my 3.2)

Never on a dyno.

Euro models have no O2 sensor.

Thanks for mentioning the header size, I forgot to ask about that. I was not aware that the euros don't have an o2 sensor. I wonder if that messes with its mpg rating, maybe not since they have 10.3:1 compression.

They probably burn more gas, but they also make more power.

For a stock car as it came from the factory the 3.0 and the 3.2 is close but the 3.2 is a little faster if you put the Steve Wong Chip in the 3.2 it is much faster.This is the seat of the ass test. You can spend lots of money to get it just a litter faster. I replaced my cad with a Euro pipe. There was almost no difference. I am sorry I spent the money because now I fail the smog on visual.
On the 914 that will make no difference and the headers may make a difference but as far as the 86 Carrera goes. The 3.2 with Steve chip is the winner. I believe Steve has his car dyno tested. He has a web page. I have nothing to do with him, just a happy customer he took care of. You start to change more stuff you get very little increase for the money spent. Dollar spent verses horse Power gained .

This is just these 2 engines. If you want to compare a fresh 73s with MFI that is a different story and a different feel.

Bob

I just completed a 3.0 Conversion. Started with a junk yard 78/79 3.0 with a bad crank: $200.00. Full rebuild - I went back with recon jugs, JE Pistons and GE40 Cams. A replacement crank, a set of Ebay Webers (Got Lucky). Kennedy flywheel, Standard 901 Box, MSD running off of the stock electronic ignition dissy. Set of Headers and a stock 73 911 Muffler. The clutch is a locally made 4 puck racing clutch. I used it in the 4 cyl. It works fine.

The verdict. -- GOOD GOD!!!!!!!!! I have a friend of mine that has a Euro 3.2 Carrera I sold him. Yes it will out run a US spec car. In our stop light tests I WIN. I should have done this years ago. This motor came out much better than I expected. The bite of the webers and fact that the power band seems to be everywhere.

The next conversion I do will be a 3.2 with the motronic. My wife can't stand the 914 - To Loud. I love it.

jfrazar