I went to my local O'Reilly for royal purple 20w-50 last night and was I ever surprised when they told me the list price was $18.63 per quart! I was quite shocked when he rang up the 4 quarts and wanted like $75.00. That was with the 10w30 on the shelf for $7.29. The 20w50 was hiding behind the counter.
Any one else had an experience like this?
I was able to talk them down to 9 bucks but you know the price of oil is going up.
I don't think I am headed back there in the near future!
i do like the oil. In 2,500 miles last year there appeared to be no wear as evidenced by a nice clean filter when cut open and valves that needed no adjustment.

Just had to vent.
Jule

That suck's, they took ya bud! I pay around 5.99- 6.50/quart.

Well worth it, R.P. is gooooooood stuff

Royal Purple has finally lost it's crown after 5 years... What has proven to be more effective is only 4.50/quart! RP is still a great oil and I use it in all my cars, but will be swapping to the replacement oil at each oil change in each vehicle.

You can order Royal Purple off line at a good price, I buy it in 5 gallon buckets..

We'll be having a three part Radio Show on oils in June to share what has been found with different tests and extended run times with different oils.

Jake, what's the new stuff???????????

You've never heard of it...

It's not new, it's one of the oldest oil companies in the US- Charles from LN just happened to discover it during the oil research, grabbed some and we tested it thoroughly, including on the 3,450 mile trip of 2006.

The results were stunning, it put Rooyal Purple in second place for the first time ever with us!

We'll release the name of the oil on the radio show and we will have a rep from the company on as a guest when we do it.

This is really good stuff!

You gotta be kidding me...I gotta wait til June? I need an oil change now

Sinclair?

I used to love that dinosour...

my local shop carries Lubromoly, which is labelled for Diesel or Gasoline engines.
Recommended by Mercedes Benz. Anyone have any experience with it?

I really want one of their huge signs

Gosh..... I remembered those Dinosaur,
I thought this gas staion is really cool! it has it own playground!

Hmmm... I was going to guess the Brad Penn green oil that is essentially the old Kendall oil everyone "in the know" used to run thru the early 90s. I couldn't find it at my FLAPS much after the mid-90s. I saw Brad Penn on display at PRI last year and when they told me what it was, my next oil change is over to that stuff. But I don't think it is $5/qt so interested to see what you have come up with.

http://www.bradpennracing.com/default.asp

Did anyone happen to visit LN Engineerings web site?

I would suggest reading the report
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

And maybe take a look at the home page a bit closely.

You guys guessed it.. Brad Penn has the title!

$3 a quart here. What weight would be best?

Brad Penn Oil

Sweet - I haven't priced it out yet so hearing it is $3-$5/qt I am stoked (car takes a case an oil change with the dry sump! tho' I use the gallon jugs which s/b even cheaper).

I agree with whatever Jake's findings were Back in the 80s when I got into hot rodding at the ripe age of 16 the Kendall 20-50 was the sh!t and anybody in the know used the "green stuff". I was sooo bummed when I couldn't find it anymore in the 90s.

Great info, Thanks Jake and Len and Rich and.....

Bill Eason in Oakland is a MOTUL distributor in his little Porsche shop, and if I pay cash, sells me MOTUL Comp for $20 gallon = $5 quart. Here's the info pasted from Len's chart

Name, P (ppm), Zn (ppm), Viscosity, API, Type, Tested By
Motul Competition*, 1148, 1327, 15w50, SH, SYN, Staveley

I love it so far, and like to support the local shop, but "racing oil" that is green is too cool

Charles and I have spent an incredible amount of time and money doing the necessary test work on this oil. Charles has spent thousands of dollars doing oil sample analysis on dozens of different oils.

All we ask for is support.

NO ONE else in the aircooled industry does this, NO ONE. They don't care.

Hey Jake, are you or Charles going to be distributors?

-Chris

What ever Jake and Charles has to say. I Run Royal purple know( because of them) will run the new stuff at the next oil charges.

There doing the research, for Whom? Us, damn it ,buy it from them if possible. O.K. i am off my soap box!!!!!! Dave

Yes, we are already distributors, but we have not been at all concerned with sales yet, just getting results.

Royal Purple is still highly thought of here.. I still have it in 3 of my personal cars and one of them will continue to run it as it's been in that engine since it's conception some 130K miles ago and I want to continue to run it to see what the engine looks like at tear down time.

Jake, Have you done dyno runs using differnt oils. I saw a test performed on another forum where dynos were done on a motor with several brands of synthetics all same weight. Mobile One sucked compared to Amsoil, Royal Purple and Redline. It was intersting to see differnce in oils in regards to hp. Being a born skeptic I wonder how much of this is just variation in dyno conditions, but still interesting. I'll try to find it and post to see if you have similar results.

I'm using Amsoil and it seems to work very well with my six on the track. My motor runs incredibly cool on track. I havent been able to get it over 180 degrees with Amsoil and my new cooler.

[quote name='Jake Raby'

All we ask for is support.

NO ONE else in the aircooled industry does this, NO ONE. They don't care.
[/quote]


I'll be happy to support you guys. Thanks for all your hard work and sharing it

I've been stocking the Brad Penn oil for quite some time. Sure, you can get is for $3/qt, but that's even less than what Jake or I pay for it with the small time volume we have. I sell it for $4.50/qt, actual shipping (not a cheap price then rediculous shipping and handling). Trust me, i'll never recoup the cost of testing all these oils, I just want to make sure my customers know as much as they can and make an informed decision on which oil to use. That said, Brad Penn is a well kept secret. I've been running the 20w50 for warmer weather and the 0w30 for winter, since I drive my 911 in the cold (and snow). Not that the 0w30 is thick enough for use in every engine, but it just goes to say it's damn good stuff when it has a HTHS vis higher than M1 0w40 in a 0w30 grade. The 20w50 has a HTHS vis higher than even Amsoil. (High Temperature High Shear is tested at 150C and is a very good measure of the strength of the oil film protecting your engine).

20-50 Brad Penn for warm weather in a TIV?

[/quote]

Jake, Have you done dyno runs using differnt oils. I saw a test performed on another forum where dynos were done on a motor with several brands of synthetics all same weight. Mobile One sucked compared to Amsoil, Royal Purple and Redline. It was intersting to see differnce in oils in regards to hp. Being a born skeptic I wonder how much of this is just variation in dyno conditions, but still interesting. I'll try to find it and post to see if you have similar results.

I'm using Amsoil and it seems to work very well with my six on the track. My motor runs incredibly cool on track. I havent been able to get it over 180 degrees with Amsoil and my new cooler.
[/quote]

Of course, some dynos have variables, thats why I invested in the new lab and removed all user error with the implementation of digital controls and data acquisition sampling rates that don't allow for much less than perfect results. Even my old dyno was very accurate, I ran it so much (and still do) that I can feel the differences in an engine, or an engine oil or a tuning change right in the controls, the way the engine sounds and the way it even smells!

The new lab removes guesswork and provides a solid platform with temperature control of the fan and air intake charges easily.

To date we have not done very much testing of oils for HP at all, every time I ran a test like that I didn't see any differences, AND the oil is very expensive to purchase. The oil companies generally will not give guys like us a discount because they do NOT WANT the tests to be ran, else the secrets are compromised. The only exception to this rukle is the guys at Brad penn, Charles wrote them with some results and a week later a pallet of all flavors of Brad Penn showed up on my loading dock for evaluation and use in our F production engine as well as the "Blow it up!" build.

That being said, Charles will be coming down in mid summer for a round of HP and oil temp testing between our favorite brands of oil in the new lab... This will consist of both power pulls at different temps with different oils, but will also consist of literally baking oils on the dyno for extended periods of time at extreme oil temps (250-300F sustained) and then comparing the pre and post analysis samples as well as matching that to the data logs to find trends. My resident Engineer will be here from the UK for that bit of testing, thank goodness!

I will say that on my 3,450 mile trip last year, as soon as we dropped out test oil #3 and put in Royal Purple ( on the side of I80 in Nebraska) there was an immediate difference in the engine's smoothness. It was noted immediately by me and my back seat Engineer who looked at me in the rear view in total amazement and asaid "feel that?".... I replied "I told you so"....

Nobody ever believes us..........

So, as a certified non believer, do I order from you or Charles? I need some in the next week. Also, what's the deal on the "start up" oil?

The break in oil is still being tested for effectiveness... we have ran some in our cam/lifter spin device but have not had the opportunity to actually study the effects it has on the components.

I do not have any oil in stock to sell at the present, all the oil we have here currently is for test purposes and not to be sold. Talk to Charles, he may be able to hook you up, thanks for the support!

BTW- The engine for "Blow it up" is on the dyno today, it'll be breaking in with Brad Penn oil, then getting a swap to some "Brad penn Nitro 70 weight" because this baby has enormous running clearances!

Oil weights can make significant increases / decreases in power. NHRA pro stock guys are running something under 5 weight oil. Last years Daytona 500 had a car running 5 weight. All in the effort to get more power.

I have some zero/10 wt oil. Yes they can make huge power differences, IF the engine is built for it...

Loosely built engines like thicker oil, tighter engines like thinner oil...

Its all in the combo and oil weight is another part of that combo....

You're right. But I was talking straight 5 weight (or less)....

So how about a little infor on Brad Penn.

Is it pour dino or what?

Where is it made?

How is it different?

And lastly, why is it called Brad Penn? Who is Brad Penn?

OK I'll Google it now...

"The Lubricants and Specialty Products Division of American Refining Group, Inc. is ISO 9001:2000 Certified. We have a state-of-the-art blending and packaging facility for high-speed production of engine oils, gear/transmission oils, hydraulic oils and other specialty lubricant products. We package and distribute our own line of lubricant products under the BRAD PENN® name. "

Answered my own questions.

I'm learning so much...

In 1997, American Refining Group, Inc. (ARG), a privately held energy company headquartered in Philadelphia, PA, purchased the Kendall/Amalie refinery located in Bradford, PA, from Witco Corporation. As a result of the sale by Witco, of the Kendall® and Amalie® brands to a third party, a new name was given to the products produced at the site: Brad Penn® Premium Pennsylvania Grade Lubricants. Founded in 1881 at the height of the domestic oil boom, the Bradford refinery is the only refinery processing 100% Pennsylvania Grade crude oil. It is also the oldest continuously operated lube oil refinery in the world. Due to the consistency of our feedstocks, the quality of our products can be traced from the wellhead to the finished packaged product. ARG's refinery and blending and packaging operations are ISO 9001:2000 certified. The Bradford refinery was the first in the United States to carry the ISO 9002 certification.

Who cares wghat it is, or where it comes from, or who makes it!

It's the best thing we have seen yet!

The more research I do the more we find out abiout who is using it.. The VW Paradise boys use it in their dragster and it doubled the life of their rod bearings- thats the worlds fastst VW powered dragster.. Muffler Mike, Marty Staggs and many of the other big VW names also use the stuff in their drag engines for the same reason... It's also highly regarded by Alcohol and Nitro drag racers because the oil doesn't mix with nitro or alcohol, the odd fuels just sepatare fro the oil and can be drained off for further use of the oil!

You'll be able to hear all about it from a Brad Penn rep on the 4th Dimension Radio show soon....

Looking at Charles' site, I was surprised to see no results for the Brad Penn stuff. Below it stated that the test came back below the MSDS specs. I would wonder if the testing by LN, the manufacturer, or the oil is at fault for that? Something must be wrong....

I've never seen the Brad Penn oil at the drags. With Nitro motors, the oil is contaminated pretty fast. Nitro kills oil. Alcohol isn't too nice to it either. Seems surprising that Nitro doesn't effect it.

I've learned that the oil testing can be way off. The levels we got results back for say Swepco, was about half what the manufacturer's minimum specs are. It's a matter of retesting, testing again, and once more, with different labs. Eventually I will have enough data points between Staveley, Blackstone, and Butler to have my wife do a statistical analysis and come up with "corrected figures" that are comparable to one another. Until then, it's more or less trending....

Same thing happened with Redline and Brad Penn - I was able to speak with their chemists directly and they told me the actual min levels with Redline, Brad Penn, and Swepco, since all three called me and offered the info straight up - no twisting of the arm required. I have about double the oils tested from what is listed on the site - I haven't finished updating the excel file, but once I have time, I might just post the excel file for everyone to download.

There are other #'s not shared or even tested for. I was very impressed to see that Brad Penn had done the ASTM D test for determining the HTHS vis. @ 150C. Most companies don't share that number or even test for it, since it's really a European ACEA requirement of the A1, A3, A5 sequences. I am updating the table also to add flashpoint and the HTHS # if I can get it, and TBN.

Once again. THANK YOU GUYS for all your dedication and efforts.

We all wait to hear what works the best and helps our motors last longer.

This is great stuff...keep up the work

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL TYPE IV STORE!!!

Look at all they have done,

Nickies,
Spin tron
oil
headers
heads
combos
the list goes on and on...

Thanks!!!!

We try our asses off!

You forgot about our roller cam development and Turbo research :-)

I don't have a roller cam yet

I did hear from the cam doctor...

The cam dr has cooked up a nasty grind for ya!! we have never sold it before, only used it in house thus far! It's one power making bitch!

Did a little digging and found that a skate board/go ped shop in Scottsdale is the only place to get Brad Penn oil in the Phoenix area. The dude stocks it all.

But I ordered from Charles--he'll deliver to my front door. Jake doesn't have any for sale right now as he is hording it for his multitude of projects. Made a mistake of asking Charles about any good buys on Nickies-picked up a set ....

Going to try the Start Up oil on the new motor, Charles said good things about it. Got a case of 50 once it is broken in--dont worry much about cold starts in Arizona.

SWEET!!!!!! Thanks for supporting the efforts, I am SURE Charles appreciates the business, he has spent so damn much on testing these oils!

An update on Brad Penn oil for all you guys in the Minneapolis, MN area, The Nurburgring Porsche shop (Rick Moe) is now a stocking dealer for Brad Penn oils

Beats having to order by internet when it's available in your "back yard"

Paul