My welding questions continue.

Most of the body panels that I will be attaching to the car are galvanized. What precautions should I take. For the welds sake I plan to grind the galv off the panel where I plan to make my welds (I assume this is correct) but what should I do to protect me. I have heard that fumes from welding galv contain a neurotoxin and should be avoided at all costs

Any thoughts appreciated,
John

Try not to breathe........................


The fumes are very damaging................

You heard correctly. Do not breathe the fumes from welding galvanized. You can get poisoned from the fumes.

Grinding the galvanizing isn't a whole lot better as it becomes airborne.

Wear a mask at the minimum and make sure you have PLENTY of fresh air.

I, myself, try to avoid welding galvanized (as well as stainless) as much as possible. (Stainless gives off bad fumes as well, but does not cause the white floaty crap that galvanized does)

good luck to you.

Ugh. Welding galvanized steel is a horrible job. Do it outside if you can, ventilate the area well and take a lot of breaks and step away from your work. You'll know when you have had too much

Is this what other people are doing? or are people buying non-galvanized replacment panels?

Just curious,
john

If you are going to weld galvanized metal I suggest that you go to your doctor and get a medical clearance for respiratory protection and find a safety supply store and have them fit & test you with a respirator for welding galvanized metals.

It's bad enough that OSHA has a reg. on it.

I wirewheel off the galvanized plating about 1/4" or 3/8" away from where I will be welding. The galvanizing interferes with the welding, so removing it will help your weld.

When I welded for a living one of the guys I worked with was talking about it. First

like Demick said remove the coating on the edge you are going to weld. Second,

like Headrage said get a mask, it can be real bad for you and third, the guy I

talked to about it told me they drink milk when they stop to adjust a part or take a

break. He said it helps to keep him from feeling bad, hell I don't know but he

welded alot of Galvi.

Welding galvanized gives me a headache, makes me puke and poop.
I just can't wait to do it again!

I've done it alot. Welding hydro towers is the worst. They have the thickest zinc I've ever had to burn through. It doesn't give a very good final product but in an emergency.......
The burned zinc gives you a mean headache and you'll know when you've had enough. With that being said, I just put in all new floors in my 914 and the little bit of galvanizing on that didn't even fizz on me. Maybe I've already burned out those brain cells but as long as you have good ventalation and don't directly breath in the fumes you should be OK.
BTW the if you do suck in enough fumes, the headache goes away in a few hours.

Just make sure you grind and wear the best respirator you can afford . . . zinc in the lungs is a really, really bad thing.

Galv is accumulative. It doesn't leave your system and do enough of it it will poison you. It will make you very sick even in low doses. I welded on some handrails once. The only way I could have been sicker is if I was bigger.

Whenever I am welding or grinding galvanized (and vacuuming up the dust), I wear one of these:

http://www.masksnmore.com/3m82n95paref.html

Fits under my welding helmet, cheap protection. When wearing it I won't notice any odors from welding. Granted there are no guarantees that something bad is getting through, but certainly is better than nothing.

-Chris

Please be careful around galvinized metal. Foundry Sickness is not something to be taken lightly.

If you have to do it in your garage - have a fan moving fresh air over the work area. Wear a mask.

Zach

This should be a sticky....


SAFETY - III : A Case study
Death by Metal Fume Fever
Posthumous Demonstration by Jim Paw-Paw Wilson
http://www.pawpawsforge.com
May 13, 2005
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/safety3/


Please do NOT become a statistic.
The dangers in welding, cutting, heating and grinding should never be underestimated.
This does not happen as often as in the past, but needs to be brought to the attention of new DIY, and younger members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyacetylene

http://www.oxarc.com/welding_safety_guide.ydev

Welding Safety on the Farm
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepub...eries/2320.htm

http://www.afscme.org/health/faq-weld.htm

http://www.usq.edu.au/faculty/arts/S...WP/swp0391.htm

http://agsci.oregonstate.edu/researc...nual/02-07.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000801...3/d000873.html

http://publicsafety.tufts.edu/firema...tors/weld.html

http://publicsafety.tufts.edu/firema...tors/weld.html

http://www.occupationalhazards.com/s...le.php?id=4407

http://maco.cog.mt.us/workerscomp&sa...afeWelding.htm

http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article29.htm

http://www.worksafe.nt.gov.au//corpo...5/15.04.11.pdf

http://www.worksafe.nt.gov.au//corpo...5/15.04.11.pdf


grinding toxic fumes
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l.....amp;btnG=Search

grinding operation toxic fumes
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l.....amp;btnG=Search

welding caused dust explosion
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l.....amp;btnG=Search

Welding Explosion and burns
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l.....amp;btnG=Search

welding in garage caused home fire
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l.....amp;btnG=Search

All your google links are borked.

Zach

doh!

OSHA has a fricken reg on everything. That's nothing special. All MSDS's for most steels come with this bogus warning, too... "This material is known to the State of California to cause cancer in laboratory subjects."

OSHA 29 cfr something point something specifically states that you can't stand on a pallet, while it is raised by a forklift. They've literally got one for everything.

Search youtube for a video called forklift driver klaus. It's in German, but you don't need to understand to appreciate it.

I hope you never end up with some incurable illness because you think that health warnings in the MSDS information is "bogus".

I hope you don't end up with some incurable illness from staying indoors, out of the sun, with nothing but purified air.

I'm a flipping machinist, with more industrial oriented qualifications and certifications out of high school than most people bother getting in a lifetime.

Yes. I know potential dangers. But you should also know that there is always a potential for danger, and the world has to keep turning. You'd have a very hard time buying can openers if nobody was willing to work SS for the health dangers.

I manufacture safety equipment, and I'm on an ANSI committee that writes some of those rules. I agree that OSHA sometimes tries to do too much, forgetting that you can't successfully prohibit stupidity. Stupidity is infinite. There are an awful lot people without a lick of common sense, and all OSHA is trying is supply them with just a little bit of it, to at least keep employers who should know better from ordering their employees to do work that will kill them. Do you wear a helmet while racing? Who made you do that, and why? Stupid rule? Think about it.

I repeat, stupidity is infinite.

By these words I should be dead! i get Galv poisoning about twice a year and should get it more than that. You know you have it good when you get the shivers that night. Drink lots of buttermilk before you do the welding and it will kill the symptoms. Galv. metal is heavy and should only be used for farm equipment. OOOOps, had to slip that in sorry.

Well. I actually mentioned that I thought the warning was bogus because it came from california. California should be it's own bogus country. Or it already is, I've lost track.

Everything causes cancer nowadays. Got any non-stick cookware in your house? Teflon-lined. Teflon causes cancer. Internationally known to, now. But they still use it for everything, from spraying carpets, to small parts, to cookware, where if over-heated, will vaporize the material.

And Paul... I probly could've guessed.

BTW, I just got done watching the german safety training video.

By osha's standards, forklift cages are illegitimate, also. Which is probly for the best. Nothing worse than a false sense of security. The driver should also be honking when he comes around corners, or through the door in the beginningThe ending was.... interesting.

I would've thought germans to be MUCH more serious with their safety training.

Industrial engineer and CSP here with 25 years in the biz. People with your attitude keep me employed.

I fear that safety is just a way to keep lawyers out of the business realm in this country and that safety is a choice in other places and or the amount of ridicule one can handle abroad.

one of my favorite YouTubes EVER!

Zach

You can get MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for virtually anything.

For example, one of our customers was so ANAL, they had a requirement to have MSDS for anything that we had on-site. Much to my surprise, I was able to obtain them. Even for things as mundane as plain finish BOLTS and NUTS.

While some of the information in the MSDS is useful, someone (or agency) has taken it just a wee bit far (in my opinion).



Back to the topic on hand, If you are concerned with welding galvanized steel, ask the manufacturer to provide MSDS for the material they are providing. By law , they must be able to provide that data. (Yes, steel suppliers can and will provide MSDS on the material they distribute including the galvanized material you are asking about.)

Hi

I've gotten sick from welding GV once and will never do it again.

A quick side point...GV sheet metal is not only a real bitch to weld, its even worse to paint. The fact that it is resistant to rust also makes it horrable to get the paint/primer to stick. Every Tradesman I have spoken to has told me to stay away from it.

Good luck
Later


( Alpha, where you bin, brotha?)

Is there an alternative for replacment metal? I am doing the Hell hole and surrounding area. The various kits are not extensive enough. Aside from cutting up another car, which more than likely won't work since any car that has these parts in good shap is probably not one you'd cut up, whats a boy to do?

Seriously I would love to find an alternative to using galvanized metal but there are very few alternatives and galvanized reduces the possibility that I will ever have to do it again (to this car).

John

I don't believe that using galvanized will reduce the possibility of rust issues
over properly treated and sealed/painted steel.
It could make it worse as many primers and paints don't stick to zinc very
well so while you may pick up some protection from the zinc, you very
well may lose protection if you can't get a good paint layer to stick to the metal
especially along the boundary edge where the zinc has been removed.
i.e the paint may come up at the point where the welded steel transitions
back to the galvanized metal and you lose the protection for the ungalvanized
areas.

I would completely avoid any galvanized metal.
The reason is the Zinc vaporizes at a lower temperature than the steel will
be heated to during the welding. This is why using galvanized metal is so toxic.
The zinc is vaporizing and can/will be inhaled as you are welding.

Living in Atlanta you should easily be able to find a scrap yard that can
can get you all kinds of sheet steel at very reasonable prices. I found
a place here in Dallas that will sell me whatever I need at 70 cents/pound.
WAY cheaper than any big box hardware store, and I can get any thickness
and size I need.

Here is a link that helped me find a place I used here in Dallas.
They list some stores in Atlanta Metal Supermarket

And for those factory style pieces like battery tray, battery shelf, wheel wells,
firewall pieces, or engine shelf you can even drop by Automobile Atlanta.
Auto Atlanta
They have any thing you might need.

Hear a few more of the several places that sell these sheet metal parts as well:
Restoration Design
Pelican Parts
Tweeks
Tweeks has some great prices including a factory battery tray replacement
for $3.99 - Yes this is not a misprint!

Hope that helps.

--- bill

Damn, what I wouldn't give to be young, invincible, possessed of the ultimate knowledge of all things again.

I've never understood how come we only know everything from our teens through out twenties, and then one day we wake up and realize we don't know it all anymore.

Aside from the health hazard, know that the zinc becomes molten and wicks into the weld like lead solder once it hits the melting point. This contaminates the weld weakening it and often it will simply "blow".

Grind it way back protecting your lungs and eyes (HEPA Vacuum with dustless sander???) Epoxy primers do much today where galvanizing was depended upon in the past.

For those who are interested I did find this 3M product which claims to be specifically for use in welding galvanized.

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserv...s666SM_COrrrrQ-

I am using the 3M 8214. They are about $80 for a box of ten but safety first right. They are hard to find but Grainger carries them

Sincerely
John

psst John, see my post on the first page

DDOOOHHHH <-- Homer Simpson moment

Sorry about that I guess I missed it