So, as I look at engine options it becomes clear that I am going to need carbs, or spend a mint on some sort of FI.

Assuming that I can find a set of Webber 40 or 44 (depending on if I go for a 2056 or 2270) what else is required to make carbs work?

I have found people selling just the carb. So, clearly there is some sort of airfilter that needs to go on, and some sort of manifold, a throttle linkage, new fuel pump. What else, and where do I get the stuff? Can the same manifold be used for the 40s and 44s or even DelToros? What about carb rebuild kits?

I know that Jake sells new carbs, but I don't know if the cost on his site is just the carb, and all the other crap is extra.

Edjumacate this newbie.

Please?

Zach

carbs. get em anywhere. webers and dells are pretty simple to rebuild. i would suggest finding the later style weber's with the adjustable accel pump squirter....

webers and dells use the same manifolds.
but then you have tall vs short manifolds available.

Linkage (arguably best or second best) + manifolds + air filters + 3.5 PSI internally regulate rotary pump etc...

all available at CB performance.
the tall manifold +linkage + airfilter kit from CB is about 200 bucks. add the 30 buck pump and you are done shopping. one stop shop


cabr rebuild kits and jetting i get from ALFA guy on ebay... way cheaper than any place stateside including shipping from italy.

I just put dells on my car, and this is the list of things I needed

dell book (from CB - buy this first, it's great)
unisyn gauge (to sync the carbs - from CB)
intakes
carbs - Alfa - http://stores.ebay.com/ALFA1750S-CARBURETORS-PARTS-STORE
air cleaners
linkage (CB)
fuel pump

Also, I installed a oil vent box which goes back to a hole in each air cleaner. You'll need a new way to vent this, as you won't have the stock air filter housing.

I used my feeler gauges to help setup the carb.

You may also need a nice timing light if you don't have one.

What is the difference between tall and short manifolds. For the application being used (either a 2056 or a 2270) what is better? I know that the 40mm carbs will work better for the 2056 and the 44mm or Del45mm are what I need for the 2270. How to the short/tall manifolds play into the picture.

Zach

Tall manifolds make the carb farther from the valve.
This creates alot more torque in the low end, but limits the motor at the top end, above 5500 rpms...way up.

Short manifolds, some are even cut very short and rewelded, are for high rpm motors that need alot more airflow above 4k when the Cam really kicks in.

The same theory applies to the velocity stacks...Jake has some special ones made up that are realy short now for his high RPM motors.

Now, I need to quote Jake, "its all in the combo"
Your motor is an air pump,
The perfect VE (volumetric efficiency) is affected by the whole combo of parts, but more importantly how well the heads flow, the camshaft (and when does the cam shaft really hit its sweet spot..high rpm or mid)

And then the carbs, manifolds, velocity stacks etc..

So, you decide what you want to do with the car, how you are going to drive, and build that motor.

A very aggressive cam, the has the harley lumpy sound, with alot of overlap needs to be run in the high rpms to produce any real power..

Get a decent well designed cam, with a good set of heads, and exhaust, and your air pump will be happy.

Rich

CB Performance linkage sucks IMHO.

I ordered this setup today from Classic & Speed Parts.

just the 40 or 44s can be misleading. venturi size is what you need to keep in mind dependant on engine displacement. 40s with a 28mm venturi are fine with a stockish 2.0. for a 2056+ with other compoment upgrades, you need to look at 44s and size the vents accordingly. don't build your engine around carb size. size the carbs to the engine. the linkage i recommend is considered too exspensive by most folks but it comes with a dandy throttle cable holder. you get what you pay for.

k

Other than 2 ropes tied to your foot, that's the LEAST desirable style of linkage. The crossbar/lever linkage is far better. Porsche used it from the earliest 356s through MFI 911s (nearly 25 years). The Cap'n

What are you running right now??? what is the price of a complete carb assembly??

If you are running stock FI, it is faily easy to switch to a aftermarket FI sys.. You can do MS system for a price comperable to a carb conversion.

Just my .02

Thanks John, but I'm going to try it and draw my own conclusions based on my own experience. Of the few people I know using this linkage though, none of them have anything bad to say about it. And we all know you're bias towards factory stuff. Having to unscrew the drop links on the CB crosbar linkage to remove them just blows IMHO. I'm sick of it. The Triad setup is probably the best out there, and I'm not that cheap, but the price is just too much. I have a 2.0 DJet FI motor that I will put in this car before I spend $200+ on carb linkage.

one properly functioning mps and one properly functioning aar. it becomes an ugly debate.

k

It really all boils down to what you are comfy with. This debate will rage on forever.

yeah gint, because that style really encompasses thermal expansion

my favorite joe sharp quote "you have to understand it, before you can use it"

pretty simple, and i agree with john

and the triad is probably a bit better thanthe CB... justs costs too much LOL

Well, here is the deal. I am putting together the dosh to get a Rbay 2270 kit. To do the kit with MegaSquirt means more knowledge then I have in the area of FI. SDS add ~2K to the price of a kit. I can wrap my brains around carbs, as I dealt with them a little when I was playing with flathead fords.

Even if I go with a 2056, I'd rather use carbs then the stock FI, just cause I feel more comfortable around a mechaical solution then an electonic solution.

I just don't know much about them from a VW based application. On the flatheads, it was really simple.

Zach

Complete Weber kits are really symple and easy to install right from the box. The mixture is all jeted and all you do is adjust the idle with a screw and another to dump more or less air/fuel mixture into the engine. Webers are crazy user friendly.

Llike I said, I'm going to try it and draw my own conclusion based on my own experience. There is just too much debate and differing opinions regarding dual carb linkage. If it doesn't work worth a damn I'll be sure and let you know. To tell you truth, the CB linkage would be a much better if the drop links were the 914/6 style that pop off instead of the heim style that have to be unscrewed.

If you are buying a kit from Jake, go with the carbs...
jake has built/sold loads of these kits with carbs, he knows all the setups, he knows all the jetting for probably every altitude...

As far as long term FI testing with these kits,,,my opinion is that the jury is still out.
Results are there, but a consistent set of results with the same FI setup are not there yet...

there are many people running weber 44mm idf carbs with a 2270.

Rich

the ball and cup joint can be had at Mcmaster Carr, or grainger etc...
I agree about the heim joints..they were gone fast on mine.

Personally I dont like any of the cross bar linkage...its just not right, and cant ever be right, and this includes the 356...
The 356 is probably the worst total accel linkage setup I have seen...
It works, sure...but lots of things work...just how much compromise do you need to have...
BTW the 356 has two bell cranks, a cable, and a slider rod all before you get to the cross bar...a good 1/2 inch of slop is normal...

Any of these cross bar linkages just cant work correctly with cast iron cylinder, cast heads and a cast case...dont forget the manifold and carbs...

These parts are all made from different alloys that expand and contract differently.

So the left side of the motor could, and I bet does, expand and contract differently from the right side.

I have tried every cross bar linkage setup so far...they all have the same issue

When the motor changes size, the angle of the drop linkage changes (from one side to the other) and then the carbs are not being activated the same..

I wont bother anymore...and I went down a much more flexible road..
I built myself a really robust cable system that has loads of benefits...

I wont post pics just yet...but within a few months I will show a decent looking prototype (a nice machine shop one, versus my homemade one) and I will show the three things that it solves..

Hopefully it will actually works better then that cross bar linkage..but only time will tell.

Rich

Put me on the list of people dying to see pics and hear all about it.

And sorry for the hijack. But it is directly related to your original question.

i look forward to your new setup too rich. the springs in in the end of the cb xbar compounds ALL of the complaints. with mine i can set the lateral motion to 0 slop. i do it when the car is hot, get the placement where i want it with the adj bolts that run into the rod, and lock them down with jam nuts. my heim joints are robust. not the 2 pieces of stamped metal holding a BB with a hole in it.

k

heims have less slop in them