Instead of continuing to hijack Rick's topic I decided to start another regarding the European Racing Stub Pipes.

I had so much trouble removing the one stub pipe from the engine I haven't seen the other three yet. Are all 4 stubbies identical in a set from European Racing?
#2&3 exhaust ports are different from #1&4 on Type IV heads. The studs on 1&4 are at a 5 degree angle relative to the axis of the port. The studs on 2&3 are in line with the axis of the oval port. If all 4 stub pipes are identical this exacerbates fitment issues when the stub is a tight fit. A stub made of 1 5/8"x.065 tube, swaged to the port shape is a very tight fit - to the point of being an interference fit.
After ovalizing the 1 5/8"" tube it is very close to the studs, leaving no room for a 12mm socket to fit onto the nuts that hold the stub in place. Only a thin socket, or one that has the OD ground way down will work.
Using a 1 5/8"" tube creates a huge step at the port face. Since the stub is squeezed excessively where it goes past the pushrod tubes there will be a small expansion chamber formed in between. Match porting the head to the stub doesn't help because the shape doesn't create a smooth transition to the header.


People wonder why my systems are so expensive. NONE of these issues exist with my stub pipes. A set of my stubbies has two different shapes - straight and 5 degree offset. This takes the port differences into account. All the stub tubes pass through the flange so a better seal is formed with the header, even without any gasket. All three sizes I make are formed from 1 1/2" OD tube:

The Stock stubbies are .095wall DOM steel. The ID after swaging is still larger than the stock port, allowing a small amount of match porting if desired. 2 small steps are much better for exhaust flow than one large step. The 1 1/2" tube doesn't have to be squeezed at the pushrod tubes at all, therefore the smooth shape is much better for flow. The heavy wall tube is better for resistance to cracking and overall longevity. It won't cut into the copper gasket, which would cause the stub to loosen up over time.
My Improved Stubbies are 1 1/2"x.065wall stainless. They are smoothly tapered to match the 1 5/8" header at the flange end so if match porting is done there is no step at all. No dimples in the stub are required to get past the pushrod tubes, although I do dimple the pushrod tubes to make sure no contact exists between them. If the pushrod tube is in hard contact with the stub it will cause premature failure of the o-rings. The header flange is step cut so the end of the stub tube mates tightly inside the flange. The flanges do not create the seal surface.

My Modified stubbies are made to match the 1 3/4" header. In addition to the features of the Improved stubs they are slightly offset towards the outside edge of the port. It is possible to match port to a straighter shape which further improves the exhaust flow as it exits the head. Creating a smooth taper from 1 1/2" tube up to 1 3/4" OD is a difficult feat. When the mandrel is released from inside the tube it makes quite a BANG. The stubs are so close to the outer stud that I include a special flanged nut with a 10mm head so a socket can still be used. A small dimple is required to clear two of the pushrod tubes. I do this with a mandrel inside the tube so the dimple is precise and smooth. It causes no restriction to exhaust flow.

I realize that many people won't spend the money for these features, especially since most headers are an improvement over a stock exhaust. But if you want to get everything possible from your engine it is well worth the expense. I put a great deal of effort into making sure my parts are easy to install, last a long time and perform as expected.

A properly built exhaust system is as important as a properly tuned induction system. My header systems actually help an engine run more smoothly than any other exhaust, even improving fuel economy. I stand by this statement 100%.

Chris,

All of my stub pipes are marked, but I bought my ERH from Brad secondhand....not sure if he marked them or not.

Mine were marked as well(lf, lr, rf, rr). Went in with no issues.

They are marked from the "factory" they only fit correctly in one orientation.


B

Yes Mike I marked them. I have fought and fought to make sure they all stay marked.. When the coater gets them.. I have to make sure he marks them also.. otherwise you sit there doing the trial/and error method.

B

I stamp the flanges of mine with a number punch. The stamp shows clearly after coating. 1 and 4 are interchangeable though, as are 2 and 3. They can be turned around 180deg in the port with no change to the fit either. If you look closely at them it is quite obvious which is straight and which is angled at 5deg. No trial and error involved. I use two precise fixtures for assembly and another for milling the ends.

I'll get the other three off this new engine I acquired and see all the details. The one I removed yesterday was attached to the #1 port and is not angled, or marked. No coating to hide any markings.

This type of stuff is what separates the Men from the boys! I hate generic crap thats is made like a "One size fits all" Baseball cap!

I have dealt with many, many suppliers, but not a single damn one has been as precise, exacting, and easy to deal with as Chris.... Every engine I build larger than a 2316 is required to run a Tangerine Super Header. The big challenge with a TIV is exhaust, once thats unlocked you can actually have an engine with real performance! Then you see my idea of how to make HP, and do it with 400ccs less than other builders!

I have to correct an impression I gave above. The ERH stubs are not one size fits all. Apparently the PO of the engine I got these with didn't know that and had a straight stubby on the #1 port.
I have all 4 off the engine now and can see that the 1 & 4 pipes are angled as they should be.

Also the wall thickness of two of the stubs is more than the other two. I bet the PO had two sets at one time and destroyed some of them (based on the condition of the remaining ones and the fact that I got two sets of header pipes and only one collector).

As far as the fit into the port opening, the stubs are too wide for a good fit. In fact I measured them to be as much as 60 thou. wider than the copper gaskets. The tubes that fit over the studs aren't truly perpendicular to the port mating surface of the stub, and they don't necessarily align the oval shape properly.

I can't tell whether the stubs came this way or were rewelded, but the little tubes aren't all straight to the studs, and I had to cut some of them and realign them so the stub pipes would fit all the way into the port.
I am doing all this on my header assembly fixture so I can see exactly what is going on and can conveniently make corrections.

BTW, after I finish making these the best used ERH headers available they will be put up for sale, along with a KH Header I also got. I expect to include new collectors, mufflers (not my expensive ones), tailpipes and ceramic coating.

Chris, So do you make the set up complete without having to look at the engine it's going onto? Seems to me that with the various combos of heads/cylinders and any machining that is done, the fixed distances between the exaust ports would vary somewhat.

Just curious.

BTW, I really dig that full set up pictured in that previous post! Whats the cost of the full monty?

I only ask for the anticipated power outut and intended usage of the engine it's going on in order to build the most appropriate sized system. I don't need to know how wide the engine is. Since the crossover is perpendicular to the axis of the engine and the only slip fittings are under the flywheel the only things that change are the overall length of the #3 & #4 pipes. If you put it on a stroker they get a little longer, and if you build a high compression race engine they get a little shorter, but it's not enough to affect the performance. I guess if the engine was 2" wider the tubes wouldn't even reach the sleeves. That would be a problem. If you shortened the cylinders a bunch you might have to cut a little off the tubes before inserting them. I haven't run across an engine like that yet.

Full Monty as shown = $1900, includes coating and delivery. Add a heat exchanger for $250 more.

You can get an even bigger system from me than that one though. Good for one of Raby's big monster engines.

You know,,,,,we newenglanders get downright bitchy when the temps get in the 20's and snows flyin....

Cant drive...cant play outside.....

If you think your having a bad day......I am on a roof, wind blowing, 20 degrees outside.....got about 3 weeks on the roof to complete......bummed I couldnt start it a little earlier...

If its red beard that keeps tellin us about his nice drive in the CA sun......bite me