I have a 1911 that I am re-sealing before I put it into my car. I bought the sealing kit from PP. I pulled and cleaned the push rod tubes. I have 3 sets of rubber o-rings in the sealing kit from PP. I assumed that I would use the orange and green rings for the push rod tubes, but the orange rings (smaller side) are kinda loose on the tube. The black o-rings fit better than the orange ones, and fit more like the green ones, but I don't think those are for the push rods. Pics below.

The question is, even if they are a little loose, should I still use the orange ones? What are the black rings for?

Part II:

I got an oil pump from Jake. A 26mm RAT mod, non full flow. The concern is the clearence. Below is a picture of the pump area and the cam bolts.

Will I need to clearence the pump at all? TIA

.PS

I have some locktite 565 for the pushrod tube seals (per Jake).

You may well have to clearance the cam bolts AND the tang of the oil pump... Mock it up and see what ya got. And make sure the engine spins by hand before you button it up.

I clearance all of the above before I put the cases together. That way you can see how it all fits.

Clayton

his motor aint coming apart..... its just getting resealed. his bolts are countersunk ever so slightly, and he has a modified type 1 pump from jake...

does the pump from jake take care of all these clearance issues?

joe, post a pic of your pumps backside.

I don't think so......

And don't use washers underneath the cam bolts. (free clearence)
Just locktite em down.

AND measure it thrice to make sure you have ZERO pump 2 Bolt issues.

Then spin by hand.... Remember the cam does walk a tiny bit back and forth.
You have to include that in your measuring.
Me thinks Jake is pretty dam busy right now with the blow it up show.

Claytonious.

My kit from Engine Builders Supply (now EBS Racing) came with 2 complete sets of o-rings for the pushrod tubes. The green and orange ones were the OEM rings that were originally packed with the kit (nitrile?). The second complete set were added into the kit by EBS and were black and were viton, which I used. Viton can stand up to the temperature cycling better than the nitrile, which is to say they last a long long time before they get brittle and start leaking.

My viton rings are higher durameter (aren't as soft) as the OEM, however, so you have to be doubly careful to install them without tearing or scoring them, as they don't compress as easily when you twist them into the bores.

So, if you have an extra 8 of both sizes, I'd guess they are viton replacements.

Jim

oil pump

My set only have green, orange and black, all in sets of 8. I doubt that the black rings are for the push-rod tubes, but I wanted to be sure.

Green is the better seal, the newer material that is better with the synthetic oil.
Red is the OEM seal.
Black, no idea, and it looks wrong.

The push rod tube seals are loose on the push rod tubes, but are perfect once they are in the case/head.

I use no sealant at all, These tubes are designed to move, slide in and out of the case and head during normal expansion and contraction.

I use the green ones, and no sealant.
I also do them every couple of years, cause its cheap, and it can be done with the motor in the car.

The oil pump issue.
Your new pump looks like it was clearanced already, and if you told Jake it was for a type 4, it probably is all set, but he also uses a cam pulley that has deeper counter sunk holes, and bolts with a shorter head.

You will need to check it, but you may bo ok, you may need to eliminate the washer, you may need to get the special bolts from Jake (or grind your bolts down) or you may need to remove the cam and machine the gear.
If you cant make it work, use a stock pump, mine was fine for the first 100k and after a good cleaning, I expect it to do its job for another 100k

Rich

Thanks to all that responded.

Anyone else have any insight into this?

Ok, so I used the red seals on the inside. I lubed them up with some locktite 565 per Jake and pushed 'em in.

I looked on the case side, and there is a little loop of seal that has popped out on the tube. I think I need to use the black ones, but I am concerned.

Anyone have any insight?

pull that tube and do it again.

I did. Pulled a few of them. It seems like there there is too much seal.

Ok, here is a pic of the seal squiting out. It's hard to see, so I circled it.

I had installed 6 of the pushrods before I went back and checked. They all did this.

I took one out and used the black seals shown above and they seat perfectly.

Any ideas?

Joe my Victor rienz gasket kit only came with the green and black O rings, but mine fit like this

Click to view attachment


And this

Click to view attachment

Either your seals are much wider, or the channel they go into is much more narrow.

My black seal looks like yours. Hmmm.....

I just double checked. PP sells the Victor Rienz kits, so that is what I have too.

both slots for the o rings measure out right around .140 inchs on average

Looks like you blew a seal....

Um... thanks Stevo.

Anyway, I used the black seals, as they look just like yours and the kit is made by the same guy. The black rings all seat perfectly, so I am hard pressed to believe that they are for something else. We'll see how it goes.

Anyway, I started to re-install the rockers. I put the push rods into the tubes, I think they are seated properly, and put the rockers back into place. When we took it apart, I bagged all the bits to make sure I put them back in the same place.

I have the rockers back on - as you can see in the picture, but they are just finger tight. I need to know the best procedure to put them on properly. Thanks for the help.

Also, there is an elbow (see pic) on the oil filler that is cracked. Where can I get a new one of these? TIA

Macro mode... Should be a Flower looking thing on the camera...

BJH

Sorry for my smart ass non helpful remark.

You should try and dig up some solid rocker spacers. I got mine at European Motorworks on Hawthorne Blvd.

Are you putting in the stock pushrods? You'll have to dial in the valve train geometry.

Stock rods and rockers from the same spots that they came out of. I didn't think I would have to redo the geometry. I might be wrong.

Joe

read jakes valve train article over on his site, you will see the need for new pushrods

Not sure how you know for sure that you need new pushrods until you check the setup. Yours may be OK.

You do need the solid spacers, though. With some preload always there due to the hydraulic lifters, the rocker could walk away from the pedestal. The solid spacers hold them in position better. With solid lifters, the valve train is unloaded 2/3 of the time, and the spring can keep it in place, at least at "normal" RPM. I got my spacers by posting on theSamba.com. Short money. Your PO probably got a kit of cam, lifters, and pushrods- not spacers.

Speaking of kit pushrods, you saw how much too short my kit pushrods were in the picture I emailed to you. (below. The other ends are even)

Jim

Click to view attachment

Is your engine a very early W-code one? If so, you may have smaller bores for the pushrod tubes.

Tightening the rocker stands: 10 lb-ft is all the nuts get. Set the cylinder to TDC or the valve spring pressures will keep you from even getting them fully seated against the head. Make sure the pushrods are seated in the lifters fully.

Make sure you get the pushrod tube retaining wire hooked into the slots on the underside of the rocker stands, and seated on the shoulders of the tubes. If the wire sticks down into the tube, it will chew up the pushrod.

--DD

Wow! That's news.

joe bought this assembled motor, and was resealing it.
the builder used shims w/ stock pushrods to get the geometry correct.

it looked "CLOSE" from what i recall.

No that's just ice cream..

It was very few of them, IIRC. I am not sure if it was just the bore in the head that was smaller, or what. Jake has commented on it in the STF Type 4um in the past. I think someone had pushrod tubes that did not fit...

--DD

Ok, so I figured out a part of my problem with the rockers. I was having a heck of a time finding TDC on one of the cylinders. I thought it was the push rods, triple checked those, and then I saw it.

The rockers have a ball type foot that is flat on one end. On the exhaust on one of the rockers, it was swivled into a somewhat sideways position. This took up the rest of the space. I have attached some crappy pix to illustrate. Once I figured this out, I had no issues.

I also got the main seal by the flywheel out too. Hooray. Saw a pic on PP on how to do this. When I took it out, there were three spacers in there. Do I need to reuse these when I put in the new seal. Also, what is the best way to put the new seal in?

yep... mazda courier adjusters

but you figured it out... and thats what counts

The three things behind the flywheel are flywheel shims. Re-use them. Check the end-play as long as you're in there, and if it's out of spec figure out some combination of three shims that will get it in spec.

"Three is the number of shims to use, and the number of the shims shall be three. Thou shalt not install two shims, saving that thou then proceed to install three. Four is right out!"

Uhh, anyway.

No clue about the Mazda Courier adjusters, but over and over and over I have heard "only use 911 swivel-foot adjusters, not the cheapie aftermarket ones". I don't know what relation the Mazda ones have to the aftermarket ones in the warning, but....

--DD

Five is right out.



I have a stock 1.7 motor sitting there, with what I assume are stock adjusters. Should I use those? Will that mess up my geometry?

11 different adjusters? Take a look-

http://www.b2600turbo.com/valve_adjustment_screws.htm

Well that helps alot. NOT!

Mine look like the ones near scat or japan. Hard to tell from that page which text goes with which pic.

courier adjusters are FINE. they are actually a bit lighter than 911 swivel feet... and you can buy them new from aircooled.net if you wanted.

they are an old school solution and nicer to valve tops than stock adjusters.....


joe. use the M A C R O button on your camera. little flower icon. some techie you are!

slam the motor back together already!

I do use the macro button. It just sucks anyway.

I need to do one last rocker pair. I need to swipe a set of nuts and washers off my spare motor. Someone needs to show me how that damn pushrod retaining wire goes in too. I will look on my other motor as well.

I also need to know how to put in the new main seal by the flywheel and how to get in the new oil pump properly to see if it hits anything. After that, I adjust the valves and i think I am ready to drop the motor. WOOT!

You think we could drop and swap in a day?

i just redid the seals on the pushrod tubes- and had mine be loose too. i thought no problem- everyone said they usually are. i put some grease on em- put em in- no oil leaks for a few days- then it just starts pissing oil out of em- what gives?

Just to review.

Can someone post a pic of the push rod tube retaining wires?

I don't have a pic of the wire either out of the motor or installed but I found this little write-up that may help a little:

ok here is my best shot at a description. The wire is used to add tension to the push rod tubes . It does this by actually looping beneth each push rod location and touching the bottom lip of the tube. It is held in place by the rocker are stand blocks an a slight indentation on each side of the head. The wire does have a left and right end. If the rockers are installed properly then the slot will face down. With the rockers installed you can simply line up the steps in the wire with the push rod tube locations and the slots in the rocker arm stand blocks. The wire will snake a path from left to right below the rocker arms. Slide the steps into the push rod tube bores allowing the wire to rest on the bottom lip of teh tube avoiding contact with the push rod. Force, under tension, the upper steps in the wire into the slots in the rocker stand and allow the ends to rest in the head.

Quick update:

The rockers are installed but I need to adjust the valves. I also need to get those wires in place. Thanks for the text Allan.

I have replaced the front and rear seals, and the filler gasket too.

The shadek pump won't fit without clearencing. So I put in the stock pump.

Flywheel is back on.

I need to tighten the case bolts back up and then I think I am ready to go.

I need to get some bits and pieces together. I will be posting my list here shortly to make sure I have all of the stuff. I figure a mid-july swap. Assuming all is well.

good work buddy!

(mine will run first LOL)

Mine is running.

This is a new motor (at least to me)

But yes, I know you will have yours back together before I get mine together. That's all a part of my master plan. Muhuhuhahaha!!!

Why don't you go ahead and grind the T1 pump to fit and use it?

The rocker retaining wire is easier than it looks at first. I can help you with that at the very least.

KK,

jake told me i could leave out the bail wire , as long as the tubes were installed his way

Jakes bail wire response

Yes, but what sealer is he referring to???