So after plenty of thought and consideration between 4, 6, and (gasp!) Subie (coulda been a contenda, if only to bug Pat Garvey! ), I've decided to continue with plans to build up a 125-150 horse Type IV, limited mainly by SSIs (I drive the coast a lot and dig heat).

Further, I've considered EFI vs. carbs and while EFI sounds great in theory (as does tweaking Djet) I am not interested for reasons of sound, period correctness, future parts availability, setup and tuning, etc.

So carbs it is. Jake tells me go Dellortos over Webers, so I have begun my search. I've got the core and a case as well as the SSIs, induction and ignition is next. I'm hoping to build this thing in late 2007 or early 2008.

So I am in no hurry, but I have found a set of Dellortos, taken off a car a year ago (said to be working then), for $300. I am figuring on a redo for another $300 + Jake's bell-crank linkage.

My, my, that puts me up to $800+ already...

Thoughts?

pete

that's a good price if they're the right size for the engine your going to build. a venturi change, if needed might add to the rebuild cost. i don't see mention of intakes in your post so that's a bit more. correct pressure rotary pump, more. new fuel lines to plumb the carbs. while you're in there, one of chris folley's large ss fuel lines thru the center tunnel for supply.....really think about looking at the interior of your fuel tank when you're at it. getting plagued by plugged jets right out of the blocks will take the shine off the carb experience.

k

good price

If you run into problems once you get em, look up Art Theron. Jake probably already mentioned him to you. He fixed a leak (aka the Dellorto Drip) on one of mine.

good luck

art thrain is the man.

delortos outflow webers....
36 dell = 40 web
40 dell = 44 web.....
45 dell = 48 web.......

in theory at least.

not trying to burst your bubble, but you wont make 150 hp with SSI's....
get a tangerine header with heat.

BTW - what size motor? dictates carb size

Pete,
I just finished the same motor that you are about to build. In fact I offered to write an article for Excellence but Jake said you were going to do it.
I went with Dellortos per Jake's suggestion. I paid $400 and then another $400 to Art Thraen for a rebuild and set up on their test motor. It appears to be money well spent as the engine starts up and runs smoothly with them.
Everyone lives in a different economy so you may not want to spend that kind of money. I think that is a pretty good price.

I've got a freshly rebuilt set of 40s if interested.

Click to view attachment

Looks like 2270, but the SSI thing gets me thinking about the 2056?

DEFINITELY do not want to over-carb this motor. Driveability is far more important to me than ultimate dyno hp. Also, not interested in pushing the limits of what is possible with Type IV power. I'd like to build this myself (we'll see if I have the time, shop space, etc.) and do it on a reasonable budget.

Will reconsider Tangerine with heat. + Mecca filter, + external oil cooler...

Hoo boy, this is getting serious... Wait, did I say 2007/2008?

pete

If you are DIY, be prepared to spend some time with the carbs getting them dialed in properly. Lots of time. I probably have more than 300-400 dollars of time into getting my dell 40s (on a 1.8) setup, and they still aren't right. Sending them to Art makes more and more sense as the hours wear on, but I do enjoy getting things done myself. I'm not sure how Art dials them in for your engine without the engine, maybe he does simply by experience?

Anyway, I think it is a common misconception that carbs are easier to deal with than FI. I suppose from a bolt in a go standpoint, carbs are easier, but if you want to get them running right, no flat spots, not a gas hog, etc, I bet time spent is probably pretty equal.

300 sounds like a good price, does that include manifolds? You can also check alfa1750's auctions on ebay, he usually has good deals on dells (no manifolds). Just gotta wait for them to get here from Italy.

-Chris

I agree, carbs can still be alot of work. But my experience with Dell's was that most of my tuning problems where things other than the carbs. Especially ignition!

Look into a Mallory or a least a stock dizzy upgraded with a Fireball Ignition system (w/ vac advance). This made the biggest impact on drivability and performance. I wasted alot of time messing with the Dells only to ultimately solve most of my issues with the Fireball system.

Now that its running, I hardly mess with them at all.

good luck!!!

Sorry Pete, but it's not a total hijack. On topic afer all and it was brought up in this thread a couple of times.

Personally, I'd like to know why Dells are supposed to be better than Webers.

Supposedly an extra progression circuit which makes the transition between idle and main better (I think). Allegedly a more driveable carb, but no personal experience betwixt the two.

i think it has to do with the transition circuit being better mike.

k

Dell's are by far the best carb for the type 4, it is all I ever ran on any of mine but have worked on Weber's on other cars. The Dell's flow better and dont require all the fussing with like the Weber's. I ran 45's on my 2270 and it was not over carbed, CB Performance will sell you all the jets and stuff you need, just talk to them and tell them what you are running and they will help you with everything you need.

Indeed, CB has been great. Make sure to get a jet reamer set and plug gauge sets. Mark Harney on thesamba is apparently rebuilding dells and webers now too:

http://www.carburetorclinic.com/

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=427931

50 bucks each for cleaning seems like a pretty good deal, although I have never used his services, he has been very helpful with chasing down my dell issues over on thesamba.

Art puts them on a test engine. Probably a type I given his focus. He then knows from experience the difference between the engine you say you are putting on and the test engine. He said mine had suffered "shelf abuse". LOL My carbs apparently sat in a box on someones shelf for a long time. In my case, he knows from talking to Jake what works as Jake does so much output testing on the dyno. I expect I will have to do some minor tuning, but they appear very close by ear...

the test run prob insures the bushings for the throttle shafts are not worn and leaking.

k

I had Art Thraen build a set of Dells for me.

He did run them on a typeI before sending them back.

I gave him ALL of the engine data included in the box I sent him.
They were spot on and perfect when placed on engine. No tuning needed except for Idle adjustment. He is that good.

When Art places tham on a running engine. He can check for transition issues, leaks, best float setting, accelerator pump settings, and on and on.

The man knows whasss up.

Craig Downs now has those carbs. I can't wait to see how his Raby kit runs with them.

Clayton

Pete, consider that a set of brand new Weber 40 IDFs will run your $1000 for carbs/manifolds/linkage. I'd jump on your deal ASAP.




Dell 40s on 1.8 seem way too large to me. Especially if it has a stock cam. That'll be a bitch to tune.

Nah, web 86, rebuilt with 8.3:1, 40 or 42 X 36 valves. I'm dropping down to 30 vents and I think I will be fine. I found out the other day that I missed mismatched emulsion tubes (.1s in with the .2s), so I'm an idiot for that. Plus I also found that the pump bowls were 1/4 filled with this red goo after 300 miles of driving. Not helping things for sure. The odd part is, I just pulled the tank and it is spotless inside.



Oh well.

Getting to the idle jets is much easier on Dells than Weber in cramped engine compartments.

And $300 is a gooooood price. I cruised w/Art in the Gene Berg Memorial Cruise in 2000. Good guy, knows his sh!t, throws a good party

Art is from Sacramento too. Grew up just 8 blocks or so from my house.