Ok. About 2 years ago, I purchased a 74 teener. Since then I've had the engine rebuilt and replaced more parts than I dare list all the while knowing that there is some serious hell hole/rocker panel rust to address. The car isn't sagging yet but I know this is an issue that must be addressed.

To make matters worse... I live in Minnesota and I have no welding skills of my own. Thus far I've contacted a couple random body shops and I've received responses ranging from "no way I'm touching that" to "you need a top off restoration". I know I can't afford a top off restoration.

So, my question to the list is... do I throw in the towel and sell to someone that has welding experience? Is there a solution that does not require a full restoration? Is that option available in Minnesota?

Thank you in advance for any wisdom you may have with this issue.

~Marc

You can always learn how to weld.

Maybe a vocational school auto body or metal working class would be willing to take on the project.

Skip

Learn to weld.
It is not that hard (if I can do it, anyone can). When you start laying good welds on sheet metal, it is such a buzz.

Plus, once you figure out that you can actually weld, you start looking for other things that you could weld togethr.

Zach

So how bad is it? A few pictures of the problem may help getting advice.

Check with your local community college alot have adult edd classes and welding

is a common one. That or hunt down a Cali tub and put all your stuff on it.

Welding is not that tuff, as long as your penetration is good seam sealer will

cover it. Pretty will come with practice.

check and see if someone in your area offers automotive welding classes.
Andy

as well. You can learn to do it, it's not too hard to get good enough to fix your car, especially concerning areas that won't be seen. It seems intimidating, but as someone else recommended, take a couple of classes and you'll see that it's totally doable. I took a weekend class, then bought a welder and practiced a bunch before repairing the longs and floorpan on my car. You can do it!

All that being said, how much rust do you have? Post some pics. It may be cheaper in the long run to buy a nice tub depending on how bad the areas are...

Learning to weld looks like the preferred solution. Thank you all for your contributions.

The car is currently at the shop getting some engine work done. I'll probably swing by and take a couple pics tomorrow. I'd love your advice if this is even fixable.

Thanks again everyone.

Most have already said it, learn to weld. Go pick up a cheap flux core mig welder and good 4 1/2" grinder to clean up things. It's mostly labor, not much in parts. Just labor and time.

Ok, you've got me really thinking about getting into the world of welding...

Any recommendations on the type of welder I should purchase? Any preferred retailers?

You need to stop over to Chappy's house and check out all the welding he did with his small home/shop welder. You can do it. And if you can't figure out how to get started there are some local guy's in the metro than can give you a few pointers.

I'd volenteer but I have a full dance card until late summer/fall.

I've got an experienced welder that will offer me his services, but I need to do the prep work. Isn't welding only about 10% of the time required for rust repair? I imagine most of the work is removing paint, coatings, cleanup, cutting pieces to size, prep and aligning the new metal. Right?

First you need to determine whether or not the rust repairs are even worthwhile, whether done by you or a professional. Post some pictures.

If the repairs needed fall under the easy to purchase pre-stamped panels category then it depends on the total cost of the panels and the length of time it will take you to learn to weld and make the repairs the right way. If the repairs are going to require extensive fabrication by you then you need to also look at buying a tub or solid roller.

The best thing I ever did was admit to myself that my first 914 was beyond repair. Then I started looking for a solid car to start with and never looked back

That said, I did learn to weld and it was a lot of fun.

Everyone who owns a 914 eventually learns to weld.... and owns jackstands... and learns to say, "It is like owning a boat, those guys never use thier toys either, they just store them."

At 50 I went back to school and took a summer class on body work and welding. I wish I had done this years ago. Sure you screw up and warp some panels and blow some holes in the metal, but it is so much fun.

Here's my 2 cents. A welder is a tool that if you buy cheap you will probably get cheap results. This doesn't mean you have to go with the best pro unit available but you want to purchase as much as your budget allows. I personally don't like the flux cored welders. I purchased a Hobart 140 from a local farm/feed store and like it a lot. It works off standard 110v house current and uses shielding gas. I have welded on 2 of 4 GT flares and it works great! Shop around in your area and make sure where ever you plan to purchase they also stock the parts that wear and need replacement ( tips,welding wire etc. ). Also the cost of the welder is just the start, you have to add the shielding gas,probably a cart,welding helmet,gloves,clamps and on and on. My $449.00 welder ended up costing about $650.00 by the time I was done but I have most of the bells and whistles of much higher costing units that will work fine for many years in my application.

It sounds like you are making the drivetrain right. If you want to get it done and enjoy the car, why not drive the car to a shop that knows 914's. For example Bill Dunster in Charlotte. He is active in PCA and owns a Teener. Drive it down, get a dollar and time estimate. Make a decision to fly home and then return to pick it up when finished, or drive it home and scrap it.

I have an extra 110 flux core welder you can try out.
I just welded in one side of the Brad Mayeur long kit this week. Extremely heavy weight steel, originally designed to reinforce rust issues in the longs. I added these with the Engman inner kit on a solid rust free car.

You could watch me install the other side, I still have some prep work to do before I
start.

How are your floor pans and the hell hole area.....

Northern tools has a decent mig welder for around 300.00 it's what I use it can weld as thin as 26 gauge. Not as
nice as the Hobart 140 but it can do a decent job.


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/sto...32691_200332691

Thank you for the tip on the welder, iamchappy. I appreciate it. I wouldn't mind seeing the work in action some time. It would be good to see what is in store for me.

The hell hole area is pretty bad. At some point, a person removed the battery tray and support only to replace it with a temporary. There is a hole through the firewall.

The pans are not bad, actually. There is a small amount of rust in the back right corner of the passengers seat. Nothing too bad.

I know that the jack post on the passenger side is free floating. I have not removed the outer longitude to take a look at how bad it is. From the underside, there is definite rust/corrosion/holes in the inner longitude and jacking post on the passenger side.

I will try tomorrow to take some pictures to post.

Thanks again!

I guess you have to determine how far you want to go with this car. Either go all out and restore the thing right and expect it to cost way to much and expect it out of action for many years, or patch it together here and there were it needs it and enjoy driving it. I did a patch work job on a 914 that I drove for over ten years before I sawsalled it up.

I also suggest learning to weld. That is the route I am going to go on my '73. I also have two younger brothers with body repair, restoration and welding experience to help me. I would also suggest looking at the Lincoln Weld Pak that Home Depot sells. I believe it is Loncolns SP135T packaged for Home Depot, has everything but the tank to do MIG and runs on 110v. That may be the route I go.

Chappy,

I will be undertaking installation of an Engman kit and long repair here in the next few weeks. I am in Maple Grove and would love to come watch the install of the Mayeur kit as well. Drop me a line and let me know. Thanks! Chuck

i'm looking forward to the pics.

it sounds like lots of work, and maybe not worth saving. if there's a lot of bits that are good, maybe look at one of these rollers from texas, have it shipped and put that nice engine and all the other stuff in it.

you'd learn more about the car, and between learning about the car and learning to weld, i'll take the car for now and hold off on the welding edu.

paul

Have a go!

If it IS that bad, how can you make it worse?

With all the help around here, you almost can'y go wrong

cheers
Gaz

I will post a thread when I am ready to weld on the other side. I need to get my cars
rear suspension back on it so i can roll it off the lift and turn it around.

Ok. I took a couple pictures of the hell hole. The previous owner put a temporary battery support in there. It worked only in the most primitive sense.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Tomorrow I'll try to get some shots of the rocker panel rust.

I don't see asphalt, could be worse.

you'll have to open up the top of the long in the hellhole and clean out the inside ... then spray the hell out of it with metal ready ... then coat with POR-15 ... then weld it shut ...

how does the side/bottom of the long look?
Andy

Bottom side of the long will be more telling now. You might be in pretty good shape, actually.
Get those rocker covers off and show us some more pictures...

I'm gonna pull the rocker covers off tomorrow.

Is there an easy way to do this without destroying them?

Damn I don't see a hell hole...I only see a heck hole. Dang that looks much better than both restorations I've done. (Then again....I'm a welder)
Now if I could only perfect the body work thing.

From the looks of things (Hell-Hole wise that is) and from painful experience (only two more months of therapy sessions), IMHO you have rust that likely goes into the longitudinal - that long, sort-of rectangular tube thingy that runs beneath the rocker panel and is connected up (literally curves upward) to the steel under the battery tray area and the wheel well area on the passenger side. Unfortunately, the Karmann designers made much of the area in question sandwhich-like with layers of steel. Look for holes (even small ones) that may have allowed water to get into or between (ughh) the layers, and, as in my car, eat out the "innards" of the longitudinal sandwich. The outer part may not show this bad rust. Do some probing (scewdriver and/or drill small test holes). The only real cure is to cut out the rust cancer to get to solid steel so that you have soething solid to weld onto. Welding - quantum mechanics it ain't - but it does take some practice. You can do it; just get a decent welder, welder's gloves, and a helmet with the auto adjustable eye protection gizmo. It also helps if the car can be raised up enough to see what in the heck you are doing.

Good luck - post more pics if possible as you go.

Steve J.

The good thing about all that is if you decide to fix it, it's reasonable to expect it will never be ignored again, leading to a much longer life than expected.
But I still think that if you have the means, a new roller infused with the gear you have already invested in is in order. Then put this one on a longer-term resurrection plan, learn to weld, consider upgrades, etc.
That way, for maybe a a thousand bucks (and your time), your actually driving this summer instead of being frustrated with a project you didn't expect.

paul

I took off the rocker cover on the right hand side. I was surpised to find a significant amount of dog food hidden inside. Dog food?

Anyway, here are the pics. Is it as bad as I think it is?

Jack plug
Click to view attachment

Long
Click to view attachment

Front of long
Click to view attachment

My father-in-law said he'd come help me weld in the new pieces once I do the prep. Is this a lost cause or should I start cutting this week?

Thanks again for all the insight

What you will need to do is some research here.
Look in the classic threads forum, and use the search tool.

You need to make up some door braces first (its a good way to learn welding also)
Remove the doors and install the door braces to keep the car the correct measurements. Search for the threads, search for door bracing etc.

You will then need the motor removed, and the car on 4 jack stands, weight off the wheels.
The proper measurements are up at the top of the page under the 914 info tab at the top.

The one big thing to remember is that after you weld, the metal tends to contract a bit as it cools. To mitigate this, you only weld an inch at a time, and let it cool. otherwise you can actually shrink the long enough that the door wont fit correctly.
Aside from that, you are fine.
Look up resotration design. There are many drawings, and examples of how to install all the various parts you need.

RIch

Mice. I had a house once and mice were bringing in dog food in the electrical conduit. All the electricial boxes were full. I found the critter across L1 and L2 of the main fuse box.

From the pic I would say "It's not that bad." But until you cut it open it is hard to

say what it looks like inside. But if pressed, I would say go for it. Seen worse.

It looks like the jack point is gone, but, you can replace that or simply grind it down and use the jack points below the car.

if the rest of that rust is not going thru you could simply clean it, weld in a replacement jack point and metal prep paint with POR-15.

If you are going to weld you can also get the ENGMAN inner long kit. it will ad alot of strength to the car and the longs.

good luck

Brad Mayeur may also be a good option. He is in Peoria IL. It is a bit of a drive for you but may be worth it. He also has a long kit that is VERY strong. Your car will never sag with them. Your car is very fixable. I did see some rust on a fender. These areas should be looked after as well. Don't be shy. Show us all your rust. We won't be shocked. We have seen it all before.