more here:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/ClubNARP/index.php?showtopic=1971

I'm really sorry to see your car looking like that. I know how much work you put into it. I hope you can get it back together quickly. It's still early in the season. Good luck!

Brant,
sorry to see your beautiful orange car in that condition...
so much for spec miatas in vintage races....
not a good match...
they like to mix it up and probably is in the habit of trying to stay on track no matter the outcome.
they march to a different drummer.

car looks like it is bruised but not broken.
good luck with the repairs and hopefully it will be easier than you think.


never like to see bright orange track cars in less than pristine condition

Brant, that sucks! Hope that will be a semi-easy repair.

outsch ...

Andy

Oh man! That sucks. I'm sure you'll get this fixed in quick order. Glad it wasnt too bad and that you were not hurt.

...now can you remind me why are you running with throw away $2500 Miatas?

Andrew,

thanks for the support sir.
I know you just lived through this and came out on the other side.
I'm not going away... I'm just down for a few months.

Dan,
once again your wisdom is correct.
I talked to the guy afterwards.
he was appologetic, but he did say a few things casually that led me to believe his mindset is that of a spec miata...

he said something like: "I'm used to feeling it slip like that and I thought I had it"

then he said: "that bimmer was holding us both up and I should of waited until it was safer, but I knew if I didn't get around it then you were going to take me"

finally he said: "the last guy I wrecked with was really pissed and is probably still mad....."

I gotta say at that point I just said good by and walked away from him.
he was being a little too agressive in his mindset for gentlemans racing.
he didn't bump or push me on purpose... but his mindset was a bit too agressive for a casual non feature run group...

Travis, thanks for the support sir!

Andy, thanks again sir. It means a lot coming from you.

Grant... yeah... I didn't know what run group they were going to put the miata's into.. Once I trailed a couple of hundred miles and showed up I wasn't too happy to be running with those guys... but I didn't even consider leaving.
I guess I'm just happy that it wasn't worse and no one got hurt.

brant

Brant,

So sorry about the teener. Glad to hear you are O.K.

The Miata crowd runs pretty hard. Some of them consider their chassis as a wear item. I you break it, just another find another bone yard car and transfer over the race parts. There are so many around. The same can NOT be said for a beautifully prepared 914 such as yours.

Let the Miata's run in the demolition derby at the circle track!

Eddie

That's why those guys have a reputation in a lot of places... "Spec Pinata"; "Wreck Me-Outta"...

Yeah, all track cars are expendable, I get it. But some folks don't get the notion that you're not supposed to try to expend them!

Sorry to see the results, but I'm confident you'll get it back together again--and turning faster lap times than ever!!

--DD

From my conversations with spec miata drivers its almost a right of passage to bash your car.

Spec Miata is a super close racing series, with cars that are considered "disposable". And these drivers learn that they have to drive at 10/10'ths all the time with frequent trips up to "11" to be competitive. A Spec Miata race without bent metal is one that was cancelled before the morning practice session...

Yeah, I really don't think letting NASA and SCCA club racers into a vintage run group is a particularly good idea. I know it's a little bit of armchair quarterbacking, but I can't say I'd have said any differently before this post. Running under a 13/13 rule is a lot different than what the NASA and SCCA club racers are used to. And the mindset is crucial.

I'm glad that there were no injuries, and that the replacement sheet metal has already been "allocated" by fellow teeners. Now is the PITA of repair.

To have gone nearly 14 years in W2W without any major incidents is remarkable though. A tribute to both the driver, and the sanctioning body.

Good luck on the repair Brant!!

-Josh2

Hey Brant,

Have you let the Chief Steward know how you feel about running in Vintage with Spec Miatas? It might help prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future. Maybe save someone else the unfortunate headaches that you have to deal with.

-Josh2

Brant,

Sorry to see the new areo mods....been there. Glad you are okay...the rest is just money and pride.

I always tell myself not to put anything on the track I can't afford to roll into a ball....ya, it doesn't help me either...

At least your guy didnt give you the "Rubbin' is Racin" line like the last rook that dive-bombed me....

Chin up!

Sean

Thanks Sean, Josh, and all.

Josh, that was one nice thing
the chief steward, and then later the club president both came over to me afterwards and apologized

they said that they had been hesitant to let the miata guys in and that they were really sorry it had been a miata involved.
I think they are reconsidering that at least.
it doesn't fix my car, but it was still nice to hear

brant

A ricer hit a 914? Someone needs to be drawn and quartered! Glad your healthy a bugger though and that sucks the shlongstickle bro

Sorry to see that Brant! I have little respect for Miata drivers in general after my on-track experiences with them. I don't understand why they would be included in a vintage format race event. If they were needed as filler to get enough entry money, they still should have been in their own race group.

I ran a SCCA regional at Lime Rock several years ago with SM and Prod together in my race group.
One of the more experienced Miata drivers wanted to have a talk with me before the race about clean driving. He thought that the Prod drivers were likely to be the cause of any contact incidents.
Even from pole I had to deal with their aggressive driving. I was tapped from behind going into the left hander on the first lap. The outside front row Miata driver had paced me thru Big Bend and forced me off line in the left hander. The group directly behind us was tightly bunched and several cars made contact with one or two going off course. I was lucky and only received a busted tail light lens. The good part of the race was that I took the overall victory running a 100hp 1.7L, even lapping the majority of the field.
The next time I was hit by a Miata the results were a bit more dramatic and the incident video was viewed by thousands.

I have never liked Miatas ever, and this just makes me not like them even more.

It's not the car, it's the driver. This past weekend we had some spec Miata cars in the HSR-West group 3 run group which is normally all Porsches but they added spec E-class BMWs, Datsun 510 sedans, Miatas and even a Ginetta this time. The only problems we had with spins and such were with 911s and 914s! One of the 914 GT clones blew a valve cover gasket but got off the track quickly so we had no oil problems. Oh yea, the Ginetta won, beating Geary Smith's GT-2 914-6 rocket ship.

Well, it kinda is the cars as there is soooo many parts available to them that the drivers are not too worried about the replacement cost.

And that fact is what makes the drivers. The availability of tubs and parts creates the culture in which these guys develop their mindset...

I saw the same thing a few years back in Spec7. Fortunately, they had enough cars so they were on the track by themselves. I thought I was watching a demolition derby when 15 cars went agricultural at Willow Springs at the end of their first lap just as they were going green. Dirt flew everywhere and when it was over the dented sheetmetal was everywhere. I think Cal Club was running the event and they threatened to pull the whole lot of them off a cancel the weekend.

Someone should tell them that it is faster to stay on the pavement.

ginetta's are wicked fast....

but I agree somewhat that its the cars.
in order for a driver to run competetively with other miata's they have to be willing to take slightly bigger risks.

the guy that hit me used to drive a vintage alfa
he has run a couple of years in spec miata now.
he told me (after he hit me) that he is used to "loosing" it a little and then normally catches it at that point.

he couldn't understand why he didn't "catch it" this time.
he explained that with the miata guys he can't lift or he will loose momentum during these slides.

but it was the very fact that he didn't lift that caused his car to hook back across the track and nail me when ne lost it.

if he had lifted all would of been well.

so I think that because of the miata group equality, the drivers develop a mindset that they have to go all out all of the time. its the cheap car parts that contributes to that pack mentality

it was driver error that caused the wreck.
but his error/decision process was born from a pack mentality of how to respond at the limits.

repairs have started.
sorry its a link to another site... too much effort to post all of the pictures twice
new metal

Not to throw fuel on the fire...

Someone on our local autox list posted this like to a compilation of Spec Miata crashes. Don't know if you'll see it as "D*mn $%^'in miatas!!!", or "Haa haa!"...

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/22c14bd...9170039245b.htm

-Josh2

Link doesnt seem to work for me. Hope everything is working out well.

that is why I don't run with Miatas or RX7s
those guys never lift, and don't care if they wreck their little cheapo racecars.

holy crud.. that video makes me want to cry.
thanks for the support josh, grant, dan!

After watching that video, I vote no Miatas with vintage cars on the track at the same time. Flippin' CRAZY!!!

They crash hard.

Damn!

YA! And I vote for no spectators on the grounds... These guys are just hacks.

OK lets be fair! ....here are cars costing 20 times as much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1u0TgZPC6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhQYdfFdAm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIT4ieMaJlo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnuzM_HnfjU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3RqOm2rdAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsREiKzQQz0


....Racing is racing! Doesnt matter what you drive.

Well, to be fair Grant, how many of those crashes came directly out of the pockets of those drivers? They seemed to all be pro, or semi-pro races.

The club level spec classes (SM, S7, SRF, Spec 944, Spec E30, etc) will generally tend to be the roughest fields, as the parity in the classes forces drivers to run at 10/10ths in order to be competitive. And the low cost, intended to attract drivers to a starter class, also allows for a car that is more easily "disposed" of.

Spec Miata is the worst offender, to be sure. They're super agile cars, bulletproof drivelines, low power, and darn cheap to repair/rebuild/replace.

Yes, racin' is racin'. But it's generally easier for a driver to handle loosing a $100k car when someone else is footing the bill. The driver may have to pay out of pocket to get the ride (they usually do), but most driver contracts do not obligate them to the cost of the car. If they did, rest assured you'd see a whole lot less crashing in those races. Sure, they may find themselves out _some_ money, but it sure won't be the cost of a GT3 racer...

Whereas in Spec Miata and other spec club classes, the driver and the sponsor are usually one and the same. When on the podium, they thank their understanding spouse, their supportive kids, and Visa/MasterCard...

-Josh2

Plenty of videos of self funded club racers fliping cars much worse than any of those Miata crashes. Miata drivers get a bad rap just becuase there are more of them. Better put 944's, 911's, Mini's on that list of bad guys too. LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U6-CK6uR6U
http://www.bushwacker-racing.com/videos/Th...l_PRC_Crash.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVmSZvdnXY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXYHS1QdpUw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl-VNJFIsO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGIQ85maG2w

The student that no instructor wants to be stuck with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MZ_CXzleXM

Okay, I think we can agree there are lots of bad racers out there...

I still contend that SM drivers, in general, are among the most prominent. And because there are more of them, it's all the more likely to have some form of incident during a race.

I will also say that SM drivers that win a lot tend to be REALLY good drivers. Partly, because the stay away from wrecks, but mostly because in order to win often in a class like that, you need to be that much better of a driver than the rest. The cars are on very equal footing, the drivers are what makes it exciting.

-Josh2