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Joe Ricard
Ok, so now that we have stepped up the game and have found more lateral cornering G's I am in lifting the inside rear tire again.

No rear sway (of course)
High rebound rear shocks 200 lb rear coil over.

high rebound koni race shock and 21mm torsion bars in front with 22 Weltmiester bar. set as much as I can before the car pushes.

So looking for advise on LSD what's available and what's the difference of each in an autocross application.
IronHillRestorations
It kind of depends on your driving style. The clutch pack type LSD is smoother to lock up, where the Torsen type (Quaife or Guard) is a little snappy when it locks, which may be better for autocross. Guard is making both styles, and IIRC the cheaper is no less than $1200 or so. Plus you'll have to have the ring and pinion set which is a spendy proceedure. With the LSD you will probably want to run a rear sway bar. You'll like the LSD for several reasons. At least that's my .02. I had a clutch pack OE 901 style that I had in a 3.0 six conversion, and it was smooth. Really helped keep the power down, but it was just a street hot rod.
Joe Ricard
I have no problems on the street because I don't generate that kind of cornering forces. I would go straight to jail.

However AX courses with big sweepers let me put down power is a different animal.

Whay can Honda guys and F body guys get an LSD for less than 500 bucks new?

Why can't I use that stuff is a different carrier.

ConeDodger
Paul Guard told me that his Torque Biasing unit is best for autocross with a few track days thrown in. But that he would go with the LSD for track days with a few autocrosses thrown in. If you get the distinction...
J P Stein
With a front set-up similar to yours, I've found that 250 lb rear springs will allow
the inside rear to unload, 275s won't allow that.
I was able to tighten the front bar to bring the car back to neutral.....just a touch of oversteer actually.

Springs are cheeper that LSDs. Get all 4 to stay on the ground, then worry about
LSDs. I'd like to get a TB diff fron Guard but $$$ is short.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.biggrin.gif
Joe Ricard
Well so far JP, your advice has proven to be the best of anyone out there in 914 land.
Chris Hamilton
Could someone post some links to these for sale? I'm specifically interested in a clutch pack diff.

Thanks.
jhadler
Hey Joe,

I think JP's comment is really good. Take a look at most of the competitive mid engined cars in SCCA autox, and you'll find many run a whole bunch of spring with no LSD. Where you start to find diff's more is in the higher prep classes where simply the raw power starts to exceed the capabilities of the tires. Form the sounds of it, you've got lots of power, but haven't yet overwhelmed the tires in a straight line. So a suspension change to keep all four feet firmly planted may be more effective. Especially in tighter turns where a LSD can possibly induce understeer if you don't have the power to get both tires loose.

Another thing to look into is chassis bracing. If you've got flex under load (and with the big slicks, I'd expect that), then you make it that much harder for the tires to stay planted.

I think in XP you've got carte blance to go for a full cage and tie the suspension into it. Not possitive though, worth looking at the rules again. And reinforcing the trailing arm mounts too...

-Josh2
Joe Ricard
Thanks Josh, Seems like we have a plan. Now for me to execute it.

Ain't this fun? I love playing with cars.
Chris Pincetich
agree.gif
Especially when the frequency of ordering and installing the wrong parts for a certain application is signficantly reduced beerchug.gif
I was watching a honda do the sweeper last weekend, and his best was when the inside rear tire was lifted (and locked-must be trail braking) for about 140 of the 180 degress huh.gif
grantsfo
The Guard TB LSD made a huge differnce in my car. I think people minimize the advantages of LSD for our cars. It goes beyond putting power down. The LSD helps with traction overall. The car in transitions handles better too.
jhadler
QUOTE(ChrisNPDrider @ May 23 2007, 02:03 PM) *

I was watching a honda do the sweeper last weekend, and his best was when the inside rear tire was lifted (and locked-must be trail braking) for about 140 of the 180 degress huh.gif


That's actually ideal for a car like a small Honda or VW. The suspension dynamics for a FWD car are a lot different than a RWD. For the Honda, the only purpose the rear wheels serve is to keep the gas tank from dragging on the ground... Okay, an exageration, but the rear wheels really don't _do_ that much in a front driver. The front wheels are doing everything (steering, acceleration, and braking). They've exchanged the roll stiffness in the rear, for roll stiffness in the front, to keep the inside front on the ground as much as they can. Like when a 914 or 911 lifts an inside front, but with even less of an impact on the handling of the car.

As for the wheel stopping? Try spinning the wheel of a car while it's off the ground. It doesn't just spin like a bike wheel. It'll stop pretty quickly once there isn't a load on it. That rear wheel will stop rotation pretty quickly once it comes up.

That was a well driven Honda.

A1 and A2 VW's are the spookiest, with the torsion beam rear axle, you can sometimes clear a beer can under those wheels... BTDT, and went too far...

-Josh2
J P Stein
I hate a thread where everyone agrees....Iff'n I was smarter, I come up with something radical. Lemmesee.
I argee with Grant on the TB diff.
I agree with Josh on the FWD cars & chassis stiffening.
I agree with Chris on the parts buying.
I agree with everything Joe says cept when he says he is fast.`

Ah ha.....I don't argee with Chris H on a clutch pack LSD for AX, but if you must have one: Guard Transmission 888 89 GEARS
Thank God, some contraversy.biggrin.gif
Chris Hamilton
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 23 2007, 05:38 PM) *

I hate a thread where everyone agrees....Iff'n I was smarter, I come up with something radical. Lemmesee.
I argee with Grant on the TB diff.
I agree with Josh on the FWD cars & chassis stiffening.
I agree with Chris on the parts buying.
I agree with everything Joe says cept when he says he is fast.`

Ah ha.....I don't argee with Chris H on a clutch pack LSD for AX, but if you must have one: Guard Transmission 888 89 GEARS
Thank God, some contraversy.biggrin.gif


It's not for my car, it's for my dad's car ( that andrew drives ). We've having a hard time keeping traction even with all 4 wheels planted firmly on the ground with R250 compound 9 inch wide goodyear eagles.

We're going to need it at parade this year.

Anyways it's not me you're disagreeing with, it's my dad. biggrin.gif
Joe Ricard
The only thing that is good about a clutch pac LSD is they like to be rebuilt allot.
R250 slicks do not lend them selves to straight line acceleration. Road race tires are made to provide lateral grip.
Drag radials are made to provide straight line acceleration.

And am too fast but not as fast as my co-driver. Sumpin like you and Britain. (old fart).
Joe Ricard
Nanner nanner
biggrin.gif
Chris Hamilton
Well we'll be going ahead with the clutch-type limited slip on Lee's order, and if anyone disagrees they can feel free to prove their point to him at either the parade this year or any of our local events. It's not really my decision though, I'm just tasked with sourcing one, and all necessary materials. biggrin.gif

I'd like to add, even though I already did that the red 914 isn't getting one any time soon, this is for the blue 914.
Chris Hamilton
QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ May 23 2007, 08:09 PM) *

Nanner nanner
biggrin.gif


I see your 914 and I raise you like 30 TTODs out of the last 33 events ( approximate )

IPB Image

Those wins were with the old built 2.0L, now we have around double the horses trying to eat our tires.
Joe Ricard
Race cars are supposed to win at autocrosses. Yea we gots a few of them Fancy schmancy TTOD's too. including 2 very dominating lapping days @ No Problem raceway.
SirAndy
QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ May 23 2007, 06:21 AM) *

No rear sway (of course)


you got a cage? if so, a rear bar can be beneficial in keeping both wheels on the ground ...

not as good as a LSD, but worth a shot. oh, and 200lbs seems a bit soft.

i run 250lbs and feel like i could still go a bit stiffer ...
i also run a stock rear swaybar. much less wheel-spin than i used to have.
bye1.gif Andy
SirAndy
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 23 2007, 08:12 AM) *

Get all 4 to stay on the ground, then worry about LSDs.


i sort of agree ... biggrin.gif

them sticky tires can be scary ...
blink.gif Andy

J P Stein
QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ May 23 2007, 06:16 PM) *

Anyways it's not me you're disagreeing with, it's my dad. biggrin.gif


Is there a rule against that?

Greg Fordahl recommend a TB diff to me and he uses one.
Should you guys beat him with a clutch pack type at Parade, I may listen to your dad. biggrin.gif
Chris Hamilton
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 23 2007, 09:22 PM) *



Is the a rule against that?

Greg Fordahl recommend a TB diff to me and he uses one.
Should you guys beat him with a clutch pack type at Parade, I may listen to your dad. biggrin.gif


No rule against it, but I think he knows a bit about what he's talking about. People who enlist his services historically end up winning nearly every single race in their particular series.

We shall see how the parade pans out. We're going to be there for TTOD. I don't know this Greg Fordahl, but I have met Mr. Tom Provasi, and with the old hundred horse 2.0L in the blue car we took TTOD away from him at marina a couple times. Now we've got a whole lot more power, we've tweaked the car a bit, and with this limited slip I'm hoping luck goes our way.

The parade is an interesting change in format for us though because it looks like we won't get very many runs, and they will be spaced way apart. I don't know whether this will work to our advantage or disadvantage, but I do know one thing:

We're gonna have a whole lot of fun finding out in the hot san diego sun. That's what all this is about anyways, nobody's getting any money out of it or anything. cool.gif
( except maybe the wise person that sponsors our car )
jhadler
QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ May 23 2007, 10:28 PM) *

... I don't know this Greg Fordahl,...


Uhm... 5 time Solo Nationals Champion. Builder and sponsor of more than a couple of a winning professional racing Porsches.

Has won in both tail draggers as well as his stupendous 914-6. I take it you dont' swim in the SCCA pool very much? Can't really drive a Porsche in SCCA without hearing the Fordahl name. And his wife (Jodi) has even more championships to her name than he does.

Having seen both Tom and Greg in action, I think I'd have to give the nod to Greg, but not by much...

-Josh2
Chris Pincetich
Oh yeah - I got $5 that says the NorCal blue #100 wins at Parade AX biggrin.gif
beerchug.gif
Joe Ricard
Parade? Really, how can an event called Parade be fast?
We have Parades here in the Gulf Coast... You know around Mardi Gras. Big float and people throw beads off of them.

SCCA is whee the fast guys are and they don't drive Porsches except for a scattered GT3 here and there.
brant
I said I was going to stay out of bicker fests...
oh well...


I've got to add my 2cents.
Paul Guard admitted to me himself that there are and can be situations where a TB diff can and is faster in a road race car than a clutch pack diff.

also, my mechanic who none of you know.. has done back to back testing on a road course. He only tells the really fast guys that the TB is better.

I've run open, locked, and TB but can't say that I've yet run a clutch type since I chose the TB over it.

Chris Hamilton
It's interesting that we have disagreement here. That's what makes this whole racing thing so fun. If there was only one right way to do it we'd only have a spending contest on our hands.
Joe Ricard
Well so far this is not a bickering thread. So I am going to keep it going.
I would like to get back on topic a bit.

The combination to make an AUTOCROSS car go around a corner faster including corner exit would be TB diff, 275lb springs rear sway bar
Heavy rebound shocks. Snug up the front bar and leave the 21mm torsion bars with 8610 1437 race Koni's

Oh and more power.
J P Stein
With the 275 lb rear springs, you don't want a rear sway bar.
ConeDodger
Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?
DanT
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 09:17 AM) *

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?

yep smile.gif another kettle of fish. biggrin.gif

look at NASCAR, (sorry), they are all on the same track and the drivers use widely different setups.
some like it softer, some like it tighter, some do it with bars, some do it with shocks and springs....
it is a total combination of driver AND car.

Jeff Reitmeir has like 8 SCCA championships, some in the now Nieslony 914 and some in a BMW M3 and some in a 924S IIRC.
I tend to listen to him alot when he talks about setups and driving techinques.
right now the #100 has a strangle hold on TTOD in Zone 7 but Parade is a much different animal...only about 3 runs and Provasi has proven time and again that he can get a very quick time in only a few runs.
Plus his car is really a track set up....
Can't say that about the "Smurf".
If it is a high speed long course my money goes on Provasi.
Tight techincal course goes to the Hamilton Racing #100.


Years ago we had quite a few highly modified 914s similar to Provasi's.
several with 3.4L crank fired, tube framed, race tired monsters.
And they would run against the Newlin's extremely light 4 cylinder 914 race car.
Most times the big motored cars would win, but the Newlin car was always close and sometimes would take TTOD on tighter technical courses.
Big wide open courses go to the big horsepowered cars, almost always with equal driving.
grantsfo
QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ May 23 2007, 11:28 PM) *

QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 23 2007, 09:22 PM) *



Is the a rule against that?

Greg Fordahl recommend a TB diff to me and he uses one.
Should you guys beat him with a clutch pack type at Parade, I may listen to your dad. biggrin.gif


No rule against it, but I think he knows a bit about what he's talking about. People who enlist his services historically end up winning nearly every single race in their particular series.

We shall see how the parade pans out. We're going to be there for TTOD. I don't know this Greg Fordahl, but I have met Mr. Tom Provasi, and with the old hundred horse 2.0L in the blue car we took TTOD away from him at marina a couple times. Now we've got a whole lot more power, we've tweaked the car a bit, and with this limited slip I'm hoping luck goes our way.

The parade is an interesting change in format for us though because it looks like we won't get very many runs, and they will be spaced way apart. I don't know whether this will work to our advantage or disadvantage, but I do know one thing:

We're gonna have a whole lot of fun finding out in the hot san diego sun. That's what all this is about anyways, nobody's getting any money out of it or anything. cool.gif
( except maybe the wise person that sponsors our car )

Ihave my doubts about the hamilton being a parade winning car after running against it recently. With poor running car and very tired dot tires my car has been within two seconds. With race rubber and carb issues worked out I think my very basic car with a good driver could equal the hamilton car on a fast course.

A fast 3.6 car will be my pick at parade based on seeing the "improved" hamilton car run.

It would be interesting to see how the hamilton car would do on dot rubber. Typically its the only car running race slicks at our local pca events.
J P Stein
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 25 2007, 12:42 PM) *

It would be interesting to see how the hamilton car would do on dot rubber. Typically its the only car running race slicks at our local pca events.


Better still, get some slicks on your car ..... biggrin.gif
ottox914
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 08:17 AM) *

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?



Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.
grantsfo
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 25 2007, 04:32 PM) *


Better still, get some slicks on your car ..... biggrin.gif

That is the goal. Locally we need to get more lightweight modified cars to run rather than letting Hamilton Racing and Andrew beat up on big heavy street and DOT rubber cars. My driving isnt as good as Andrews, but I always pull out at least one decent run during the day. The Pirate car was less than a half second off Steve N's car at the Zone event on old 710's. So I think with real slicks the car might just have a chance when I'm on the right course. I'm going to look at fenders that will allow for wider rear tires.

Its all good stuff! I just wish we could get Randal and Bill out in their real fast cars. My car on DOT tires agaisnt Hamiltion racing is like bringing a musket to an automatic weapon fight (my car is a momentum car without the stick) More competition certainly creates an enviroment where everyone trys harder. I know I'm trying much harder now that I have TTOD in sight. I have to say last year I could not realistically hope for TTOD. Last season the closest I got to Hamilton time was about 4 to 6 seconds. This year its in about 1.75 to 3 second range on same tires and suspension I ran last year. Only difference is motor and the car is down to 1850lbs now from about 1950lbs.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(ottox914 @ May 25 2007, 08:21 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 08:17 AM) *

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?



Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.


LOL!!! I had a vision of one wheel wagging back and forth... Even his girlfriend was faster than most of the guys...
Don Gettinger still around? How about Charles Hoffman?
Joe Ricard
Yada Yada yada.
See page 66 of the June Sports car. See anybody you know?

Ok for all you guys that swim in little ponds it says " Board Member Hassan Malik led 48 drivers with FTD run in Joe Ricard's XP 914. This also was a PAX win.


Got 300's for the rear springs yesterday I suspect I'll have to bump up the front sway bar now.
J P Stein
QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ May 26 2007, 07:05 AM) *




Got 300's for the rear springs yesterday I suspect I'll have to bump up the front sway bar now.


Heh.....I suspect you're right and as I wrote, ditch the rear bar. The only 914 I've driven that actually lifted the rear inside tire had a rear bar.....That caused some mid turn cussin'.

"First, do no harm" is from the hippocratic oath, but could well apply to selecting parts for your 914.....at least for those of us on a limited budget. I've made a few mistakes along these lines.....fortunately with no lasting financial effects, but forced to run an
AX season with the mistake.

My foray into 10in wide front wheels & slicks is a good example.....that's where I learned about scrub radius.....a lesson that was pounded in the whole season headbang.gif Nobody told me I was making a mistake and therein lies the rub when going to slicks on a 914. Few folks in my circle of friends have been there.
When someone like Mr Fordahl (whose resume includes crew chief & suspension set-up guru for Job Racing's ALMS GT2 cars) gives me advise, I listen.
ottox914
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 09:34 PM) *

QUOTE(ottox914 @ May 25 2007, 08:21 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 08:17 AM) *

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?



Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.


LOL!!! I had a vision of one wheel wagging back and forth... Even his girlfriend was faster than most of the guys...
Don Gettinger still around? How about Charles Hoffman?



Randy split up w/her before I joined the club, 6-7 yrs ago.

Don is still around and driving the second oldest car in the club, his '64 vett. The oldest car is a '59 bug eye sprite on slicks that comes and goes on a trailer, as does Don's '64. I have the next oldest car with my '73 914, and the oldest car that comes and goes under its own power. There is also a '73 Opel GT, but it also travels by trailer. There was a '70 914 for a couple seasons, but that guy, (Dave-O) scored a ride with an STU M3 and the 914 is now a commuter.

Club has grown a ton. We now regularly run 150+ cars for 6 runs each at events. We have a big cube van and dedicated timing trailer for set up and storage. At any given event there are at least 6-10 past national trophy winners in the grid, along with at least 1 wearing the jacket. Its a tough crowd to impress these days.

No Charles Hoffman since I've been around.
Chris Hamilton
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 25 2007, 12:42 PM) *

Ihave my doubts about the hamilton being a parade winning car after running against it recently. With poor running car and very tired dot tires my car has been within two seconds. With race rubber and carb issues worked out I think my very basic car with a good driver could equal the hamilton car on a fast course.

A fast 3.6 car will be my pick at parade based on seeing the "improved" hamilton car run.

It would be interesting to see how the hamilton car would do on dot rubber. Typically its the only car running race slicks at our local pca events.


You were "only" within 2 seconds. Such a small amount of time. Just 2 seconds, thats all. Nothing big, just 2 seconds. biggrin.gif If you're that close you should get some racing tires and show us the business.

We shall see how it goes when we get some fuel injection and a limited slip, I think that the new engine is hardly doing anything for us because we just can't get the power down with the one-legger.

If you want to know how we did on kumho victoracers, check out the 2004 results here: http://pca-ggr.org/acresults.cgi
grantsfo
QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ May 26 2007, 04:20 PM) *

QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 25 2007, 12:42 PM) *

Ihave my doubts about the hamilton being a parade winning car after running against it recently. With poor running car and very tired dot tires my car has been within two seconds. With race rubber and carb issues worked out I think my very basic car with a good driver could equal the hamilton car on a fast course.

A fast 3.6 car will be my pick at parade based on seeing the "improved" hamilton car run.

It would be interesting to see how the hamilton car would do on dot rubber. Typically its the only car running race slicks at our local pca events.


You were "only" within 2 seconds. Such a small amount of time. Just 2 seconds, thats all. Nothing big, just 2 seconds. biggrin.gif If you're that close you should get some racing tires and show us the business.

We shall see how it goes when we get some fuel injection and a limited slip, I think that the new engine is hardly doing anything for us because we just can't get the power down with the one-legger.

If you want to know how we did on kumho victoracers, check out the 2004 results here: http://pca-ggr.org/acresults.cgi


Yep count 1, 2. Certanly "forever" for like classed cars. But for me its a big improvement from last year improvment. I never imagined getting this close to TTOD. It doesnt matter if its your car or others. Race tires? Naw I'll try beating Andrew on 710's, that will be more enjoyable. I'll have a fresh set ready to go for Altamont with car in better tune.
ConeDodger
QUOTE(ottox914 @ May 26 2007, 02:57 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 09:34 PM) *

QUOTE(ottox914 @ May 25 2007, 08:21 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 25 2007, 08:17 AM) *

Interesting thing about autocross suspension setup is that you can have two guys with the same brand and model car, both blistering fast, totally disagree about how to set up the car... I know a guy in the Minneapolis area that used to show up in his wife's car, stock 6 cyl Camaro because his was on jackstands and STILL spank tail. Sometimes, its just the driver. Randy something or other for you MAC guys...

I have never used race tires on an autocross course but I notice lots of you guys do. Doesn't that change the whole mindset on the setup?



Randy Williams, and he's still stupid fast. I think in a shopping cart with one stuck wheel he'd still kick most of our butts.


LOL!!! I had a vision of one wheel wagging back and forth... Even his girlfriend was faster than most of the guys...
Don Gettinger still around? How about Charles Hoffman?



Randy split up w/her before I joined the club, 6-7 yrs ago.

Don is still around and driving the second oldest car in the club, his '64 vett. The oldest car is a '59 bug eye sprite on slicks that comes and goes on a trailer, as does Don's '64. I have the next oldest car with my '73 914, and the oldest car that comes and goes under its own power. There is also a '73 Opel GT, but it also travels by trailer. There was a '70 914 for a couple seasons, but that guy, (Dave-O) scored a ride with an STU M3 and the 914 is now a commuter.

Club has grown a ton. We now regularly run 150+ cars for 6 runs each at events. We have a big cube van and dedicated timing trailer for set up and storage. At any given event there are at least 6-10 past national trophy winners in the grid, along with at least 1 wearing the jacket. Its a tough crowd to impress these days.

No Charles Hoffman since I've been around.


Too bad about Randy splitting with her. She was a beauty. I watched the front suspension break off of Don Gettinger's Vette at COMMANGSAC one year. That car has been through a lot. I will get up there one day with the silver car. It will be good to be back with the mosquitos and the humidity. Easier to get heat into the tires!
ConeDodger
It is certainly getting interesting again in 914World out here on the Left Coast. Grant has indeed done a good deal of development and Nathan has a 914 ride. No legacy is ever safe in autocrossing. Fast is fast no matter what you drive and Nathan is fast in anything. Grant is going to challenge for sure. As always, and I know people don't understand this, I am just happy to be autocrossing. It is always good to do well but no matter what it is always the best 30 to 60 seconds of my week (exceptions of course for the time spent with Yopu).
So lets take it to the course and leave the smack talk behind...
Chris Hamilton
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 26 2007, 08:38 PM) *

So lets take it to the course and leave the smack talk behind...


clap56.gif

Oh, we also won't be at altamont if they're going to charge an entry fee.
J P Stein
Bench racin' didn't start with cars and it's not liable to stop any time soon.

Truely big frogs go look for other big frogs to run against, then they risk getting beat.
If you have some other agenda, you don't. Simple, no?
grantsfo
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 26 2007, 07:38 PM) *


leave the smack talk behind...


Thats no fun! biggrin.gif I'm a much better smack talker than an AX driver!
ConeDodger
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 27 2007, 11:37 AM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 26 2007, 07:38 PM) *


leave the smack talk behind...


Thats no fun! biggrin.gif I'm a much better smack talker than an AX driver!


rofl
grantsfo
QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ May 26 2007, 05:20 PM) *

If you want to know how we did on kumho victoracers, check out the 2004 results here: http://pca-ggr.org/acresults.cgi

Hey I just saw this GGR PCA AX #2 video and it looks like you guys were off of the slicks and onto DOT rubber due to wet surface. That Arial kicked butt with those skinny little tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMhWt_7kGOM

Then I looked at results. http://www.pca-ggr.org/acresults/041407.html ...Man tell me AX isnt all about tire grip! Was Andrew having a tough time without the LSD when he was on DOT tires? I know my car was a bear to control in low grip situations with no LSD and DOT tires.

Chris Hamilton
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 29 2007, 02:05 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ May 26 2007, 05:20 PM) *

If you want to know how we did on kumho victoracers, check out the 2004 results here: http://pca-ggr.org/acresults.cgi

Hey I just saw this GGR PCA AX #2 video and it looks like you guys were off of the slicks and onto DOT rubber due to wet surface. That Arial kicked butt with those skinny little tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMhWt_7kGOM

Then I looked at results. http://www.pca-ggr.org/acresults/041407.html ...Man tell me AX isnt all about tire grip! Was Andrew having a tough time without the LSD when he was on DOT tires? I know my car was a bear to control in low grip situations with no LSD and DOT tires.


That particular autocross left everyone quite a bit annoyed, andrew and I were in the first rungroup and it was almost still raining when we were out on the track, then the track dried out and everyone else got to run for the second session. Andrew was driving my car in the morning, and the blue 914 in the afternoon with some skinny all-weather street tires. He drove my car again in fun runs and the track had dried out so much he beat his own time. Can you imagine what kind of surface difference that is, if he's faster in my car than the blue car?
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