I called George at AA and he says he has a great VIN sticker for the 914-6 just like this one saying made by Porsche but I need someone to punch the holes to match my VIN numbers. I have all my VIN’S everywhere on the car but there and that is a great item for a restoration. He said to ask the club to see if there is a hole punch person in our group.

Nice blue color.

Thanks,

Bob

It's pretty likely a federal crime for ANYONE other than Porsche itself to do what you're asking. Not George, not me, not an authorized dealer. For sure it's a state crime here in CA. The Cap'n

Put it between two thin sheets of (wood,plastic,metal,?) and program a CNC mill to drill the holes.

On par w/ripping the label off a mattress...

If it were my car and the door jam sticker was gone I'd do it in a minute and never look back. I like the CNC idea.

Hardly. This one's for real, and the penalties are too. Having gone through 2 years of CHP random "spot checks" of my shop and parking lot because I was remotely associated with a VW pan and title that passed through my hands, I can assure you they take VIN labels VERY seriously, something they made exceedingly clear to me. A few months back I inquired about simply R&Ring the decal for a restoration, and the answer is NO, you can't even do that on your own car, much less anyone else's.

The Cap'n

Hell the Feds can't do much about "real" crime, I'm guessing they've got better things to do than worry about someone replacing a VIN sticker on a restored 914.

By strict letter of the law, John's probably right, but I'd say it would be a crime to worry about if you were trying to defraud anyone. If you were trying to swap the VIN on a salvage or stolen car, then it's another ball game.

If it was that big a deal, then you couldn't purchase new stickers from Porsche.

My .02. I've got at least two cars here that need a replacement.

You can purchase new stickers thru Porsche, but they are the new style and don't look like the ones on our cars.

I know of one process that can dupilcate them exactly, but before anyone asks, no I can't do them, nor do I know anyone with the equipment to make them at this time.

On my car if this works the State Of CA can kiss my ass.
I have 3 stamped places from the factory in metal in the car, the original deliver book and as I am a privet party and not a business and I have the pink slip, that is all the proof I need.

I now have an idea how to do it. I just need to call in a favor from someone that has a CNC MILL or a puncher that can do it. ( Thanks 914efi)
The act of making the sticker is not to mislead any one in this case. It is one thing to finish the door sticker for restoration. The State Of CA only needed two to transfer the pink. This car has always been in CA.

The three on the car plus the original deliver book is provenance that the car is the real one. It will be of 914WORLD record that 914-6 #41 will have a AA reproduction VIN sticker on the door.

Bob Burton

Whatever. IF they decide to f**k with you, it's your parade, not mine, that they'll be raining on ....................... None of your excuses will fly. The Cap'n

sodomy is illegal in some states too...

So's marriying your cousin. But I've got mine right here...!

If it's just one sticker, then you can lay your original over it and do it by hand, or scan the original, and use it as a layup. Just take your time at it.

The original is long gone. This is a $30,000. Restoration of 914-6 #41 with wide body GT cooling, 2.5 ss no expense it too much (almost) when finished this car should look like it came off a used car lot with very low miles. Small details like this are very important to me.

Bob

I would think that this issue has been raised in many a different discussions over time, & not just w/ 914s'. Any car undergoing a restoration may need a new vin sticker which leads me to believe that there have to be many options out there & just need to be researched (practicality & legality wise). I have a feeling this issue has a different set of regulations per state, as well as marque. Perhaps purchasing a blank from George & sending that off to Year One or someone like them to be stamped?

XXXXXX,

I'm not laying low about the vin plates.

Like I said I do know of a process that can duplicate the vin plates, but I don't personally know of anyone who can do it for now.

If I could do it and it was legal to do (not sure if the manufacturing of a vin plate is illegal or if the act of placing it on the car would be considered the illegal act) I would first get a couple opinions from lawyers versed is criminal acts before proceeding and from several different parts of the country. Then there is the matter that even if it was legal here to manufacture them what are the laws in other areas?

Radar detectors are illegal in some parts of the country. Some places it's illegal to have one in a car. Yet the manufactures are not charged with producing a illegal item. Now they are probably a ltd. company is that the reason or is the onus placed on the person who owns the unit entirelly or is it that the use and ownership of radar detectors are not a legislated act that are required to be on the car like a vin plate.

Now the door plates are not the ownly means of determining the vin number on a car. There is the windshield plate and serial numbers in the front trunk. What would need to be determined is what were the requirements when the car was made and for each year it was made and what are the current federal laws and then the each states laws.

Say I made you a vin plate. Perfectly legal here (not known if it is at this time) and I sent it to you and you put it on your car. Somewhere down the road someone decided this was a illegal act and because I mailed it to you it would be a federal crime (might fall under federal laws because they are the ones that enact car standards- unknown) Then there are each states laws concerning this. What is legal in one area might not be in another. Worst case, I send you a new vin tag and I get arrested next time I cross the border.

So until I'm sure that won't happen it is not a project I will take on.

Bruce

P.S. I'll post this in the thread (without your name) so others know what's up


Edit- I need some too....making them without the vin is easy...anyone need a couple 100 and I'll get them done

I would love to be the test case. I would love to see the fed's take me to task over a documented car. There is no way the intent of the law is to prohibit the replacement of a damaged sticker. If it was the only identifcation on the car I could see an issue. But this is a sticker not a stamping. I would have the press all over this if they spent one thin dime of my tax money on a frivelous issue like this.

The intent is to prevent vin. swapping or rebodying cars. Not replacing a missing or unreadable sticker with the cars original vin.

BTW: I cut the tags off my pillow come and get me.

Cap'n, sounds like you were being observed because there was an issue with a swapped vin. not a reproduction stick being replaced due to damage.

The British car guys take a VERY different view of things,

http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/mg/0052.asp

(scroll down to the bottom two rows of plates and decals on the catalog page)

The parts suppliers and vendors sell the blank VIN plates and Auto Commission plates, and the tech sessions at the major meets include demonstrations on how to strike your VIN onto the plates using machinist's dies.

True. However, I became pretty good friends with the Chippie who dealt with things like this. I recently had occasion to discuss the VIN sticker with his successor because the question was raised here (or at the club) and was informed that the CHP (at least) takes this VERY seriously, and would impound the car and otherwise inconvenience the person in possession of the car, and anyuone else involved until the issue was cleared up, and he didn't think it would be cleared up in the best interests of those persons. BTW, IME cars impounded in CA for VIN issues are generally destroyed. They don't get parted out, and cannot be retitled. All it takes is one CHP officer who is having a bad day, has issues with your attitude or demeanor, or has a hard on for CWs or Porsche owners in general.

That said, there is a procedure whereby the manufacturer can issue a new sticker and the dealer can affix it. The problem here appears to be that the stickers currently available are not the same as those originally affixed to the car in the 1970s, and the person asking the question is unwilling to use one. The Cap'n

Maybe there's a miscommunication/misinformation? Is the "person asking the question" mistaken OR has he been mislead?

There seems to be some disconnect - "If the glove don't fit you must acquit...".

-pt

Stoddards Porsche said they can not get it for me, George did not tell me that the factory has a different looking VIN sticker that they can make up for me. If it does not look like it did in 1970, it is not right for me. I can just put Georges Sticker on with no holes. There should be more people worrying where there engine cases came from on there sixes that are not original.

Bob Burton

Last night I had a dream that I had a six... I woke up and the sheets were all wet. Can anyone interpret this dream?

I would offer up this suggestion.

Get in touch with PCNA, or call the PCA.

I bet that you could provide Porsche with a valid reproduction of the sticker (from AA) and get them to use your blank sticker to make a new sticker.
Then get a dealer to affix it.

It should be legal, documented, and just take a bit of time tracking down the VIN guy in germany who does this.

Rich

Rich,

That is a great idea. You would think the factory would want to take care of this and let people like myself with a 914-6 get these done. There where very happy to take my $105. Or whatever amount it was to send me the certificate on my 914-6 and still they cannot tell me the date when my car was made. Porsche seems to be an -if you got the money we can do company--. The problem with me is I know no one at PCNA, or the PCA. You would think George would have these connections. Maybe the idea it to get it out there till some one comes up with one.

Bob

A quick check of the 2007 California Vehicle code seems to differ on this.
Here is a link to the specific section in the code related to this:
Altering or Changing Vehicle Numbers
Clearly the intent of the law is to prohibit "Alteration" or removal
and there seems to be a clear exception for restoration.

I would follow up with the DMV.

--- bill

Bill,

State of California gave me the pink with the VIN on the window (proof #1). The front compartment was not able to open because the handle was broken so we had to take it back to my place to remove the bumper and open the trunk, then back to the DMV for the second proof of VIN numbers as there was no door sticker. (Proff#2) The stamped number at the top of the right inner fender. The PO sent me the headlight bucket VIN proof #3 later when he was cleaning out his garage. So the factory has 4 sets of VIN numbers. One very easy to sand off when a dummy is repainting a different color.

CA. DMV only needs 2 sets of VIN numbers to change title.

Bob

I understand the desire to restore to original as possible. There is another issue that has not been addressed. I would notify any future purchaser of the vehicle (in writing probably on bill of sale next to the "as is clause") the the "factory sticker" is a reproduction. This is because, as we all know a complete original car is worth more than one without placards intact. This becomes an issue of fraud. There was a bodyshop in Portland that got busted for "reproducing" serial numbers on old Corvette body parts, and then passing them off as all original. Because of the value of the cars it was serious.

Just my .02, but the factory option is probably the safest bet.

In the case of numbers matching Corvette or a 914-6 with correct Engine number and Trans. numbers that came with the car that may be the case, but the door sticker in restoration is a different point. If someone changed Engine case numbers they would be in very big trouble if caught because it is a fraud.

This is just a small point to me, as I will never sell this car but full discloser on a car is an inserting thing. The PO for sure knew there was a broken Clutch tube. Should people need to fill out discloser forms on there cars when they sell them.

I am honest and never have anything to hide, I would sine one. We have to sine them when we sell homes in California.

Bob

I will be getting new style factory VIN stickers for my 6 project. I can understand the originality urge, but I know of cars that have been held in limbo for questionable VINs (just like what you're proposing), and I wouldn't want my pristine restoration at an impound lot for any length of time. That being said, if you do the reproduction well enough, who would EVER know? Does the AA stickers have the tamper-proof circles cut into it? Or is it solid?

The first thing I did was pay my full sales tax, get a reg. sticker and new license plates for the car and have the DMV inspect the car. This had to be done before I would hand over the CK to the PO.

I have not seen AA stickers or the factory new stickers. This started out looking for a harmless way to punch the numbers in the reproduction VIN sticker.

I just looked at my 86 Carrera sticker shown in first photo. There are no tamper-proof circles there. I do remember those on my 72 VW Beatle. Is my Carrera VIN sticker a fake? LOL

Bob

This is what the newest replacements look like, but I've also seen the 911 sticker you show in the first post that was punched with 914 VIN info. So either they've all switched over to the new style, or it depends on which dealer you order from.

I like the CNC option. Getting the tamper-proof material to make stickers on would be nice as well.

This one was is on a car for sale. It has the tamper-proof circles. Are 914-6 stickers all silver or are some black?

Bob

There are at least 4 styles of VIN sticker. Early/Late & Dark/Light depending on car color.

Actually 6 different ones:

Black, Safety compliance, VIN, production date 1970-72,
Silver, Safety compliance, VIN, production date 1970-72
Black, Safety compliance, VIN, production date, vehicle weights 1973-75
Silver, Safety compliance, VIN, production date, vehicle weights 1973-75
Black, Safety compliance, VIN, production date, vehicle weights 1976
Silver, Safety compliance, VIN, production date, vehicle weights 1976

Info thanks to Jeff Bowlsby

Does anyone know the part number or how much George charges for the sticker? Could not find it on the AA website. Thanks.

This iss the silliest thing to be concerned about. IF you do even a passably decent job, one you would be happy with since you are going to the trouble; there is no way in hell anyone would ever say anything to you other than, "Nice Car".

They are looking for numbers that are different, not the same.

If, on the unlikely possibility someone in a position to do the looking would even know where all the VIN, body and engine numbers are stamped(I had to show the person doing the registration inspection on my bug the spot under the back seat) It is probably the only 914 door jamb sticker they will ever see. Unless it looks crappy, which you would be unlikely to stick on the car, no one would EVER say a word about it.

1970-71 Door Jamb Sticker - AA part number: BAA 006 701 700

Thanks for the info however I plugged that number into the search engine @ AA & got nothing. Anyone know the price?

I found it on AA's data base as part number BAAA 006 701 700 for $11.00

Thanks, that B made a difference. You're right, $11.00 & just needs to be punched or something.

The scary part is that the imprinters were not all that unusual back when. Both Royal and Wesley made these imprinters for safeguarding checks so they could not be easily altered.

I cannot see how replicating the original sticker with the original equipment would cause an owner any difficulty. Who could say the sticker was not original (other than this forum's members or a PCA concour judge? I don't think it would raise any eyebrows if it matched the other plates and documentation on the car.

We need to find a member that has an old, old accountant or bookkeeper that may have kept one of the old imprinters.

If you Google check imprinters, you'll find different type styles that were used. I believe the Porsche one is the Royal or Wesley style.

http://www.officemuseum.com/check_protectors.htm

I did see that after George Rud pointed it out, Not bad but the 7 and 3 are wrong and the there is nothing for the / for the date. The CNC should dead nuts on. Not that I am trying to fool anyone but if you had one that was dead nuts on? I have to use up a big favor or take it to my factory in China and have them do it. Looks like I will need a few stickers to get it balls on right. I hope George has black ones.

Bob

Slightly off topic, but has anyone removed the front trunk and a-pilar plates? Can they be re-installed with (size?) rivets? What about those mini-rivets on the Karmann plate on the left door hinge post? I will be doing a full re-paint and would love to have those off the car for painting.

Ted K

The a pillar plate on my car is just 2 black pop rivets. The front trunk plate is not a plate, it is a stamping on the front driver side fender (which I was careful not to fill in when I was repainting the car.)

I don't know what size rivets the Kharman plate is, they are tiny.

Zach

In the FWIT dept.


http://martiauto.com/index.html

These guys have been re-manufacturing Ford Data plates for cars and trucks for restored vehicles for YEARS.

It is legal.They use the same stamping materials and fonts as the OEM.

Ron

The factory provided repro sticker is one from a new 911 punched with the 914 number. It is TOTALLY incorrect looking for any restoration.

Regarding the "lawlessness" of duplicating the doorjamb VIN sticker; as long as you can prove provenance of the vehicle (title history, your clear ownership, etc), and your intent for purchasing and using a replacement VIN sticker (reciepts for painting, restoration parts, etc), you WILL NOT have a problem.

Now if you are planning to take the serial numbers off a trashed "6" to that clean '71 into a "real" 914-6, THAT is another matter all together.

Those of us who do not live in the police state of California would not find the correct replacement of a mere VIN sticker for accurate restoration purposes a problem.

I challenge anyone anywhere to show legal cause of action regarding this exact matter.

Thanks Zach, I was referring to the rivited plate on the headlight bucket, not the fender stamping. Its frustrating. I want to have the chassis/body dipped, but I'm sure that process would remove the black on the Karmann plate and dissolve all labels. What to do, what to do?

Ted K

Just remove the riveted data plates.