I remember no too long ago someone posted a bitchen link to a mini V8 made from 2 hyabusa engines. It was a great idea, but out of the price and consideration range for probably all of us. This got me to thinking, though. The hard part is having to cast a block and a crank to fit the hyabusas together. While this engine is by far the bset choice for car applilcations due to its overwhelming power, there has to be another, easier alternative.
I was wondering how hard it would be to take 2 honda V4 1100 engines (pretty common and easy to get) and make the out put of one to the shaft of another. This would remove any need for a contiguous case/crank and yet serve the same purpose. The hondas came to mind because it is what I am familiar with in teh V4 configuration. They would be compact, easy to plumb, high rev, relatively low maitenance, and high in cool factor. Or, how about mating two large V engines together = more tq, lower reving, air cooled (or not). With the ponies that the motorcycle engines are pushing these days, adding 2 togather would give a light car like ours a nice boost and probably be lost of fun.

Any thoughts?

If I had it my way I would mate two BMW K1100 16V engines together in a flat opposed 8 configuration, but thats a bit out of my skills level.

Didn't we have a thread on this? Where we bashed me for an entire night for saying that it was possible?

It's been done numerous times before. with many different types of engines.

Aside from the cool "Look what I did" factor, I am not sure that I would see the point of it. Depending on the person, though, the "Look what I did" factor can be one hell of a draw. It is the reason that many of us rebuild these cars.

I know that 'Busa engines have been put into Minis (old body, not current) and Smart cars, to great effect. But bolting 2 engines together for a 914 would probably be more hassle then it was worth, with all the other good and "relatively" cheaper options.

In the end though, all it takes is money and time.
(which, as a med student, you are deficit both )

Zach

just weld two type 4 cranks together and make a nice 3.4L out of two old 1.7s ...

nothing like a aircooled flat /8 !!!
Andy

Did the 'factory' flat 8 914s have the trunk cut?

Hey man, dreaming in free!

Actually, with 2x 1100 V4 engines you could get 200hp and a 8-10K red line in a compact package. All I am thinking is a crdle to hold the two bolted together, and run the radiators in cool looking ducts in the side behind the doors. The engines are not much $$ at all. Who will do it? Maybe me some day, but by then I will likely be forced to mate two hydrogen cell engines together...

yes ...

Good question of the factory 8s, I have no idea how they fit that in there and had the transaxle not poking out.

look at the factory drawing of 914111 in DGVWPB, page 86/87 ...

it's a detailed engineering drawing of the car and how it was modified.
the transaxle has been moved backwards quite a bit and the axles run at an angle.

it also has a custom shift linkage going down the pass. side of the car ...
Andy

I was just considering your welding of 2 1.7s together and it would only = about 140hp....but it would look neat At least the bike engines would put out more.

How the hell do ya get two cranks welded together? The engine would be very long

"look at the factory drawing of 914111 in DGVWPB, page 86/87"

Im not familiar with this notation. Where is it?

it's the 914 bible - check his avatar

well, "while you are in there", you could update the cams and such, make some nice headers and get 8 cute little carbs and you should be pushing 200 HP ...


btw. here are the factory drawings ... note the shift-rod routing!
Andy

DGVWPB = "Das Grosse VW-Porsche Buch"

Danke!

Ya, while Im in there

Two mated TIV would be even longer. Sounds like the prefect engine for the 914 limo that I have been wanting to build.

You can get in excess 0f 230HP our of a normally aspirated rotary engine and it'll rev forever....
Add another rotor (3) and put yourself in the 350 hp range...
Then you can turbo it...or add yet another rotor or both...
....if small lightweight, high HP, high revving engines is what you're after....

I've even seen the thread on putting a rotary in a 911.....

you guys are funny. You wouldn't double the horsepower and maintain the same redline just by sticking two engines together. You now have twice as much rotating mass and more strength deficiencies in the case. You don't even have roughly the same characteristics of 2x one engine. Period.

Hi Guys,

You can put a chevy into anything if you have enough money & skills.

Look at this one!!!!

Tom

That is not exactly my whole point. A rotary would also cook you pretty good and be rather uninventive (been done to death). I like the motorcycle idea, not that I am going to do it before I am 50 as I will be paying back loans....

geez guys!!!!!!!!!

how can you just ignore him like this?


such prime flaming fodder!

THAT NEW ALPHY MATH! 100+100= 70 is that right alphy?

100+100 not= 200, that's right.

I was thinking something along the lines of an 83 1100 Honda Saber at 118hp per engine. The magna (of which I owned one) had the fastest produciton bike speed record with this engine. I am pretty sure the V-max took its place, I wonder what two of them put side to side would do?

Yup, now coveting the V-max engine. 1200cc, 145hp, 9k redline. Small (fits between your legs), light (whole bike wet is 651#), cool, powerfull and relatively unchanged since its inception in the 80s = proven

Why not just save the weight and go for a single 1300 cc turbo Hayabusa. They can easily make over 300 HP. Lots of cars are using this powerplant. I have even seen a VW Golf with one.

here is a site that shows some cool conversion work.

http://www.hrengineering.net/index.html

Yup, that was the kind of stuff that spurned the idea, but it violates the one tenet of cost. To get the busa, hop it up, etc = $$$. Two V-max engines form a salvage yard, some welding of a cradle, a coupler and some inventinve engineering and presto! I realy need to live in a place with a barn for my crazy experaments some day. Every evil genious needs a layer.

What is the tq out of the busa engine sup up to 350bhp?

Stuff..........

Seems a lot easier just to do the Subie thing--a 4 like the one in Excellence or like Ed Hunziger's. Highrer revs, almost unlimited power, if you add the blower ;like the WRX. OK--it's been done--but done enough to be very reliable and pretty easy, and relatively cheap. No one is going to mate to mc motor cases and cranks for less than 30 or 40 Grand.

Clayton, thanks man. You said it, and enough said about that.

PinetreePorsche, dude you are missing the point. And 30-40 grand?! Better come with a happyending of the oral kind.

Box, meet your company, now feel free to think outside it if ya want to

I love this crazy stuff.

I'm not sure your concept would be best served in a 914 though. I would build a mid engine light weight tube chassis and skin it in aluminum. There are tons of cheap wrecked 1100 cc bike engines out there. Most bikes have great hp but lack torque to get a heavy (by go cart standards) 914 moving. The clutches are not designed for the severe duty required to move a car and passangers.

I would mount the engines sideways, remove the alternator and clutch covers, add double or triple row sprockets and chain the ends of the cranks together. Then the second engine in line you could connect to a drive shaft like the Legend cars do.

i think putting some thing like 10 chain saw engines together would be awesome!

How about two Harleys?

that could be timed to sound soooooo wicked!!

I like this site. Good potos of engine build, diagrams, sounds, etc

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm

Now yer talkin! Thats cool.

I was figuring the hardest part would be keeping the tq required to move the car from snapping any clutch/plate combo. I just need to feed them into a diff like the twin Harley thing

Check zcars.org they have kits to stick a suzuki engine into a mini as well as honda r series ones

Hayabusa and Honda Fireblade engines are pretty common in tube-framed and aluminum skinned Lotus Seven replicas too:

http://www.daxcars.co.uk/rush/reviews/rush_kitcars1.htm
http://super7cars.com/Super7_GSX1300R_Hayabusa.html
http://www.supercars.net/cars/1893.html

And why stop with an 8? A flat aircooled sixteen, now THAT'S impressive!!

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[huh? Why isn't that image showing up?]

But Doctor, the original question was if making a V8 out of two fours could be done "easily". I think the answer is no. Machining a new driveshaft and block to use the motorcycle heads? Sounds a bit like that Yamaha built Taurus SHO engine, but for some of us to do? Not easy. Then in the V engines there's one flanged or splined crank drive output, and generally the other end of the crank only drives an alternator. That end isn't strong enough to drive or be connected to another engine end-to-end and still transmit any amount of torque that would be fun. You could configure the engines side-by-side and gather the torque with a belt drive to a common shaft, I suppose, but then you've got a real big engine package and are again pretty much out of the "easy" category.

Yea, now if they would just make a Boxer-8 version of that engine! That thing is sweet.

I like the idea of the Honda V4's coupled together though. Those are some wicked engines, never fully appreciated.
Or how 'bout a couple of CBX engines tied together? V (or flat?) twelve???

Jeff

heres a mini V8, 548 CC displacement, using Ninja 250 Heads...not exactly what youre looking for, but pretty cool, used in WWU's FSAE car a little while ago.

OMG, that's absolutely incredible. Did YOU do that? Amazing.

Here ya go...

Matra Simca Bagheera engine......




A pair of parallel inline 4's coupled together and to the tranny with a chain drive.

That's 2 distributors, two fuel sysems and two sets of reciprocating cranks supposedly working together in perfect harmony throughout the ENTIRE rpm range.

That engine has some notoriety for being a real b*tch to tune. Imagine just tuning two sets of fuel systems AND ignition to idle at exactly the same speed. Add rpm's, and you best retune again. Bet the vibrational harmonics rippling through that chain drive system tore up more than a few chains.

Ah, the French. Such unique designs.

Ken

Man, some cool stuff coming out of the wood work. I was thinking that for using two motorcycle engines, and not breaking the shafts, one owuld have to couple them to like a regeared differential and have asingle out. Its the lack of sleep talking.


That VW 16 is cool, but he still went with a single bbl carb Could you immagine trying to sync all of those if individual

here pics from the
"Red Porsche Killer"

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BTW He lost the race against the 911S

Here is a link to the info on the mini v8 from WWU's FSAE car:

wwu fsae viking

amazing what engineers with the proper tools can do

Found this on text about possibilities of grafting two Desmosedici RR motors together.

Desmotrentadue RR V8
Two Ducati V4 race engines grafted together
(+3) [vote for,
against]



The Italian motorcycle company Ducati currently produces the Desmosedici RR, a road-legal version of their MotoGP race bike. The engine powering this bike is a 989cc V4 with sixteen valves (sedici=sixteen), desmodromic valve actuation, and over 200 horsepower at 13,500 rpm.
If one were to engineer a V8 engine out of parts from the Ducati engine, it would be perfect for powering small racecars in certain race classes, or possibly a production supercar. This 32-valve V8 (trentadue=thirty two) would displace 1978 cc, or just about 2 liters, and potentially produce over 400 horsepower.

Since Ducati currently engineers their powerplants with 90 degrees between the cylinder banks, and 90 degrees between the crank pins (cross-plane), it would be possible to make this V8 without balance shafts, unlike other V8s made by combining two in-line four cylinder motorcycle engines (see link). Overall, the Desmoventiquattro V8 would have fewer compromises.

The only drawback to this design would be that the increased crankshaft mass would prevent the engine from revving as quickly, and the full 13,500 rpm of the four cylinder might not be reached. One could even re-design this engine rather easily to have a longer stroke, thus increasing the displacement and increasing low-end torque at the expense of high-rpm power.

Check out the DP1 website - He is using a Hartley V8 in an atom that he is modifying - the V8 will eventually go into the dp1. 2.8L, 375 naturally aspirated horsepower at 10K rpm, 210 lb-ft torque at 6.5K rpm.

http://www.dpcars.net/

He is local and I have seen the DP1 run with its current 4 cylinder - fast! check out his vid's!

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I was thinking that this engine would be very cool in a 914!

Why not get an older ferrari V12? I think they came in compact at about 3L displacement...

Why dont you just cut a chevy V8 in half? Makes a great reving V4. Dirt racers do this a lot.

David

a chevy 4.3 v6 is almost the same thing, just two cyl lopped off.

How about a 12 cylinder that is shorter than a 911 six??

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Bolt pattern on the bellhousing is the same as a boxter/996.


Think... a 12 cylinder, 6 speed, cable shifted 914.....