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xsurfer
I have to paint the car, something I've never done. What paint is correct for showing? I'm starting read about paint. I'll start taking the car apart over the winter.

Color change is acceptable to Judges I think. Can someone verify that please.

Thanks from the newbie. Say, when to I loose the newbie title? After a restoration? LOL

Gene
IronHillRestorations
You'll have a steep learning curve if you are serious about getting a show quality paint job the first time out (painted in your garage I"m guessing?). There's a considerable amount to learn in order to get a good finish on a car, let alone a show car finish. Most all of the time you'll run into more than you expect, as in something under the current paint you didn't even know about.

You also need to examine the health risks associated with painting a car before you get serious about undertaking such a task. Modern paints pose a serious health hazard to the painter and anyone else in reasonable proximity.

See about working with a paint shop that will consider reducing the price, if you bring the car "shucked" down to a paintable state, ie removing turn signals, brightwork, glass, etc.

To answer your question though, a good original finish rates higher than a repaint, and a color change would rate below a good repaint.
Porsche Rescue
I think a color change is a big mistake, especially for a car as rare and valuable as a factory six.
sww914
You would be better off if you had a friend who'd spent years in a body shop. It takes a lot of experience to pull off a concourse paint job. Even the best still blow it sometimes, paint is very fickle.
TJB/914
QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Jun 24 2007, 10:57 AM) *

I think a color change is a big mistake, especially for a car as rare and valuable as a factory six.


I agree. agree.gif

I wouldn't try a concourse paint job the first time around. I would suggest you do the dis-assemble, paint removal & go as far as you can. Then job shop the final prep & paint to a professional. 60% or more of the paint job is work (manhours) you can do yourself. A paint expert told me it takes 400-800 manhours for a concourse paint job inside & out.

Tom
Johny Blackstain
QUOTE(Porsche Rescue @ Jun 24 2007, 02:57 PM) *

I think a color change is a big mistake, especially for a car as rare and valuable as a factory six.

agree.gif 100%. That's why I bought the six I have... someone else already ruined it by show standards. The best I could hope for w/ my six would be in a modified catagory- I don't have the original engine or transaxle, the interior has been updated to the moving passenger seat type & there are 3 layers of paint (all different) on top of the original Irish Green. I doubt I'll ever show her, I'm having too much fun driving & resto-modding her driving.gif !


cool_shades.gif
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(xsurfer @ Jun 24 2007, 10:19 AM) *

I have to paint the car, something I've never done. What paint is correct for showing? I'm starting read about paint. I'll start taking the car apart over the winter.

Color change is acceptable to Judges I think. Can someone verify that please.

Thanks from the newbie. Say, when to I loose the newbie title? After a restoration? LOL

Gene

Gene,
I'm assuming your six is an original, not that it matters. There's only one way (ONE) to get a concours paint job - a specialist. And, you won't believe the things you/they find when it starts to get stripped down. I don't care if the car has spent it's life in the Sahara - if it's been washed, you'll find rust. Particularly in the sail panels.

I'll take you through the episode with my '72 four banger. This was in '79 - 28 years ago!

Car had been a Parade-quality concours prepped car for 5 years at that point (one class win & wanted more). Driven 48k miles the first 2 years I owned it - rain, snow or shine, before I caught the bug to make it better. Besides, I noticed a small bubble under one of the sail panels. Took it to a Cincinnati Mercedes speacialty shop for a repaint. Said they wouldn't touch it, because it was a "throw away" 914. Just so happened, one of my best friends (now deceased) was the attorney for them & they owed him a favor. They agreed to do the job, but only if I delivered them a tub. OK with me - always needed an excuse for a party. Stripped the car of everything but the windshield (easy to do, by the way), wenched it on a trailer & delivered it in 10 inches of fresh snow (40 mile trip, BTW). Ramchargers rule!!!

Long story, short. The sail panels were rotted badly & had to cut out. In '79, there were no aftermarket replacement panels available. The shop cut them out about a foot into the quarter panle, finished them with LEAD (try to find a living lead guy these days), stripped everything to bare metal, except the door jambs and engine lid - I mandated that they copy the orange peel finish of the engine lid to the entire car (which they did perfectly). I didn't change the color, because that would have been catastrophic - besides they refused. They also refused to R&R the windshield, because they were ceratin it would crack (good decision). I asked them if they would use Glasurit paint & they refused, saying that better paints were available on the then-contemporary market. Always trust your painter to know what the best current goo.

So, 28 years later my 914 can compete with the best of them - beat most. The paint & bodywork have beaten the test of time. Cost to do in 1979 - $4000. Cost to do today? Scary, but if you have a six, worth it because you'll get it back.

Point is - if you cheap out, and painting it yourself is a big mistake, you'll lose equity. It's like a house - an investment. Cheap it up & you'll lose resale.

However, if your's is a "true" six, and you don't want to make a serious investment in it - I would be happy to take it off your hands, at an equity-adjusted value, of course.
Pat

ps: pardon my verbosity - I get like this sometimes.
scotty b
Be prepared for some serious sticker shock if you truely want a show quality job. I do show quality restorations for a living and will gaurantee you NO painter is going to take what you bring him and shoot it knowing it will be shown....no GOOD painter I should say. He would certainly prefer the car stripped BUT he will most likely want to do the body werk himself that way he is assured it has been done correctly. I will occasionaly do a job like what you are being advised on and WILL NOT gaurantee ANY of my work if I don't know what is under my work. Rust poor preperation, poor materials, improperly mixed materials etc. For example....we just finished some work on a Shelby Mustang and in the process of stripping it hit a patch of bondo that was still gooey! WHY? Because whomever did the previous repair did not fully mix the hardener headbang.gif That alone will cause MAJOR problems on a repaint. Depending on the rust you may have you could EASILY be looking at $10,000 + for a properly done show car. Thats just in body and paint assuming there is little to no rust to be dealt with
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(scotty b @ Jun 25 2007, 06:59 PM) *

Be prepared for some serious sticker shock if you truely want a show quality job. I do show quality restorations for a living and will gaurantee you NO painter is going to take what you bring him and shoot it knowing it will be shown....no GOOD painter I should say. He would certainly prefer the car stripped BUT he will most likely want to do the body werk himself that way he is assured it has been done correctly. I will occasionaly do a job like what you are being advised on and WILL NOT gaurantee ANY of my work if I don't know what is under my work. Rust poor preperation, poor materials, improperly mixed materials etc. For example....we just finished some work on a Shelby Mustang and in the process of stripping it hit a patch of bondo that was still gooey! WHY? Because whomever did the previous repair did not fully mix the hardener headbang.gif That alone will cause MAJOR problems on a repaint. Depending on the rust you may have you could EASILY be looking at $10,000 + for a properly done show car. Thats just in body and paint assuming there is little to no rust to be dealt with

Good points!

It's a lot like life. Establish goals. Make the commitment. Make it happen.

If your goal is a "nice" 914, go that direction. If you want perfection, learn what it will cost, make your decision & go.

And foremost, (as Dirty Harry once said), a "man should know his limitations". If you can't make a concours paint job & bodywork happen, either learn to do it (could take years!), and make the capital investment to do it correctly. Or....leave it to the pros, who've already met both requirements - probably save some money this way & reduce the frustrations.
Pat
xsurfer
Thanks Guys!

I need to re address this. I'm not going to paint it, rather I am looking for a painter. I want to know about the paint to use? Do's and don'ts of project. Where to focus. The paint escapes me completely.

Johny Blackstain
QUOTE(xsurfer @ Jun 26 2007, 09:41 AM) *

Thanks Guys!

I need to re address this. I'm not going to paint it, rather I am looking for a painter. I want to know about the paint to use? Do's and don'ts of project. Where to focus. The paint escapes me completely.

This is a personal choice, as I'm sure you'll find out. I'd use either Sikkens or Spies/Hecker.


cool_shades.gif
scotty b
QUOTE(Johny Blackstain @ Jun 26 2007, 06:04 AM) *

QUOTE(xsurfer @ Jun 26 2007, 09:41 AM) *

Thanks Guys!

I need to re address this. I'm not going to paint it, rather I am looking for a painter. I want to know about the paint to use? Do's and don'ts of project. Where to focus. The paint escapes me completely.

This is a personal choice, as I'm sure you'll find out. I'd use either Sikkens or Spies/Hecker.


cool_shades.gif


Spies Hecker, Glasurit or Sikkens are all going to be your vest choices. Spies and Glasurit are the tits man !! laugh.gif
Rusty
QUOTE(xsurfer @ Jun 26 2007, 08:41 AM) *

Thanks Guys!

I need to re address this. I'm not going to paint it, rather I am looking for a painter. I want to know about the paint to use? Do's and don'ts of project. Where to focus. The paint escapes me completely.


Having done some paint, and having paid to have the job done... I can offer this small piece of advice.

Find a paint guy who's work you appreciate and you can trust... then trust him. If he knows what you're going for, he'll choose materials appropriately.

Not all paints lay down the same way. Don't box your paint guy into a corner insisting he use Product X. He may have a style and talent that works best with another paint product... and you'll be far happier in the end.

kind regards,
L
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(Lawrence @ Jul 11 2007, 12:17 AM) *

QUOTE(xsurfer @ Jun 26 2007, 08:41 AM) *

Thanks Guys!

I need to re address this. I'm not going to paint it, rather I am looking for a painter. I want to know about the paint to use? Do's and don'ts of project. Where to focus. The paint escapes me completely.


Having done some paint, and having paid to have the job done... I can offer this small piece of advice.

Find a paint guy who's work you appreciate and you can trust... then trust him. If he knows what you're going for, he'll choose materials appropriately.

Not all paints lay down the same way. Don't box your paint guy into a corner insisting he use Product X. He may have a style and talent that works best with another paint product... and you'll be far happier in the end.

kind regards,
L


Yeah, I did that in '79. Swore to the painter that it had to be the VERY same single stage Glasurit paint that came one the car (this was/is a Mercedes guy). He pronounced to me that my '72 may or may not have come with Glasurit, since the '72 year was a time of change - AND, that he would NOT do a single stage paint on my 914 - AND, he would only use the latest Glasurit compound (which I forget). We argued about this & he finally said that's the only way he would touch my car, paticularly since I was stripping it to a shell myself. On good advice, I finally agreed.

28 years later - I couldn't be happier. He did excellent leadwork & paint (still does). Still looks almost like it just came out of the paint booth. The ONE thing I insisted on, and he agreed, was to not paint the engine lid. I wanted him to use that as a guide to the proper level of orange peel from the Factory. To this day, it's a perfect match & that's the only area I get a red rag from polishing.

Yep, hire a pro & let his have his head (within reason). Make sure he knows what you want - then leave him alone. It really bothered my guy that I came over weekly to take pics, but I think it kept him a little bit more honest.
Pat
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