I gotta stick to the tires I have now for 2007 due to AX class points and my budget.

I have 195/50 Dunlop 2000 Sport (I think) on 15x6" alloy rims. I got these because I was worried about fitment of 205s and never guessed I'd becaome an AX addict.

These tires seem to get more slippery as they warm up. As a result, I end up fish taling a bit. I tend to 180 slide about once a day, and can keep the back end from swingin around 90% of the time. Some times I mash the brakes, turn in fast, get about 10-20 deg fish tail, and hook up heading right for the next apex. YEAH it feels great and I hear the tires squeel. Other times I have a smoother approach and lots of squeel all through the arc of the turn. Sometimes I'm smooth and don't hear the sqeel. With so many turns adding up to my time, it is tough to tell which approach is fastest. I don't feel like I kill any speed on my little slip slide and hook up and when I watch others it looks fast as long as the tail isn't swingin out wide.

My AX book (with the 911 on the cover) talks about the friction circle, and I think I need more info here. It says that pushing the limit up to the grip release is fastest, and then hints that sometimes going a little outside the cirlce is fastest. Losts of allusions to pushing the limits but no "one size fits all" explanation.

Is this loud sqeelin approach as good and fast as it feels, or am I just enjoying the ride and going slower than I could?
At what point in the friction circle are my street tires making the squeel noise?
Is the soft compounds in DOT-R and slicks too soft to resonante and make the squeel noise?

I started dropping PSI this year - from 32-34 down to 24-26 PSI at the last race. Still well on the tread, not rollin over to the tread wear line. Is this extra side wall flex good? I think so!!

I know most of youz guyz had humble beginnins like me and my rustored 1.7 914 so enlighten me on the finer points of maxing out my street tires!

My perspective, others may have different opinions (in which case they're wrong! ) --

Smooth is good.

Most street tires tend to make noise when they get somewhere near the limits of adhesion.

--From those two, I think that your #2 approach (smooth with tires squealing the whole way through) is the better one. Wagging the tail is almost (almost!!) never the fastest way through the turn. {note the edit; added the word "never"}

Smooth also includes unwinding the wheel while you are applying the gas. Hopefully before the apex of the turn (though that can change with some turns).

I have found that most street tires seem to grip better with more air pressure. My guess is that the gains from stiffening the sidewall were larger than the losses from making the contact patch smaller, but I don't really know the mechanism. You can test your own tires by making a run, then letting ~4 PSI out of your front tires. Make another run. If the car pushes more than it did before, then your tires want higher air pressures. If the car gets tail-happy, then your tires like lower pressures. It's a bit crude, but it can get you a pretty good way to finding where your particular tires like to run.

Oh, also--higher air pressures mean that the tires squirm less, and they tend to build up less heat. That might possibly help keep your tires from getting "greasy" as quickly.

--DD

You are experiencing what most everybody goes through when they first start auto-xing. That technique is alot of fun, but I doubt that you are going as fast as your potential. As long as your not taking out walls of cones, your legal, and having fun. Auto-x is very much about transitions, threshold braking, a keeping momentum(especially in a 1.7). To get faster, you'll need to get used to looking ahead, and that is usually atleast 2 gates, and some courses it will be three.
Most of the quickest drivers will tell you that distance over speed is the way to go.
Your tires are telling you things, and you'll go farther and faster if you listen to them and work with them and keep'em happy. Find yourself an instructer at the venue and let them drive your car, then watch you drive to get some pointers.
Have fun, and good luck!

You need to buy 205/50/15 Falkens for the car. Regardless of technique, tire pressures, etc those dunlop tires arent going to come close to Falkens or Hankook Street/AX tires. You will be amazed at how much better Falkens are compared to those tires. For around $350 you could have a set of Falkens.

Its unlikely you'll have any issues getting 205's under your stock fenders.

I just put a set of Falkens on my Mazdaspeed 6 and they have transformed the cars grip. I ran on a tight onramp today and its was just freaking amazing the grip I have now compared to BFG G Force KDW 2. The car is generating race car like grip. I have to AX this thing again!

Falken Azenis Rt615 $76 per tire....for 205x50x15

here..... https://www.edgeracing.com/tires/2055015/

I think you might want to think your low pressures on street tires...
the sidewalls on your Dunlops are not near as stiff as a DOT R tire

higher pressures will help keep your sidewalls stiff. Stiffer sidewalls allow your tire to grip the pavement without distortion and also helps he suspension work the way it is intended to.
I ran street tires on my "87 Carrera one year and also on my Boxster for one season.
Always used slightly higher pressures, and usually won my street tired classes.
Many times the fastest car on street tires at various events. Don't go so low with your pressures on street tires.

Try somewhere near 38 PSI front and back. If one end slips before the other add 2 lbs to that end and take 2 lbs off the other end.

Streets including your Dunlops squeal way before letting loose. Learn how to manage that contact patch through the friction circle and when you can stay close to the edge of adhesion through a brake, turn, accelerate manuever. then you are ready for DOT-R tires which will have a much higher limit and you will have to find it all over again.
When you go to slick it is going to again start over with an even higher and sharper edgy limit.

Stay with what you got and learn how to go fast with it.

I have done a few events on Streets after a few years on DOT-R tires. it was a hoot. I could drive though the course and change the pitch of the squeal at will. My passenger nearly puked. and I did spin once or twice so don't sweat it.

Chris, when are you measuring tire pressure? Are these hot or cold temps you state?

I usually measure the pressure at the start of the day - BUT the one day I dropped from 30s down into the 20s to try it out it was in the middle of my runs so the pressures were "hot".

I'll definitely go back to 30s on the PSI with all this input

Where and when does a little fish tail/oversteer make for the fastest line on an AX course? Early apex to a short straight? At entry to a hairpin 180?

I'm hoping to not give up my fun little slides, just use them at the right time

Ok I will only tell you this one more time. You need more than 30 PSi for a street tire for your car to handle well in Autocross. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was running 30 PSI hot on a 225/45-15 A3S05 Hoosier on 8" rims. Can you argue with 1.4 sustained lateral G's ?????

I run my 225/50-15 Kumho's on 8" rims at 24 PSI hot and have sustained 1.5 lateral g's. Tire pressures are tire and car dependent. But I agree I'd say Chris needs to go with higher pressures than he currently runs - probably 35 would be a good number.

I run 45 PSI in my Falkens on my 3700 lb Mazda tank!

You're just starting out. Right now, at the base of the learning curve, oversteer is NOT your friend. It will only be slower than driving a clean line.

When you've got a more experience under your belt, you'll know where the best place to be loose is, and where it pays to be tidy.

Just for reference, a slalom is the best place to have a loose car, it also the hardest place to control a loose car, and still turn good times. And when I say loose, I don't mean tail hanging out, tires smoking, I mean just a -little- loose. You can be loose, and blazingly fast, if you know how to handle it. And you can be loose, and slower than dirt because you're always having to back out of the gas in order to reel it in.

Loose looks cool. And loose is fun. But only when everything is JUST right (driver -and- car), is loose actually fast.

Keep the tail end behind you, and you'll find your times drop, and your skills will improve.

-Josh2

I run my 225/50-15 Kumho's on 8" rims at 24 PSI hot and have sustained 1.5 lateral g's.

Yea I need more power. 1.4 was at an autocross. Road racing /lapping days I have no idea But the passengers

Slalom! I do recall riding with an instructor last year doing a course that had a very tight decreasing slalom near the end. When I rode with him he entered super fast and hit the brakes hard after the first cone to make the turns, then we smoothly went side to side. I entered fast, and wiggled my rear end a bit through the cones, with a bit of slide in the rear, but basically front was always fast and stright ahead. After the finish, he looked at me and smiled, a told me that my attack on the short slalom seemed faster than his.

I'll admit I don't have MUCH experience, but I like to think I can learn quickly!

34-36 PSI cold is how I've run 90% of my races - I guess I got good advice to start with!

Chris FYI, I leave my house with 26 psi cold all around, and go from there. Lets ride together if your at schultz 8/4.

chris, first off, you look really good out there. seat time, seat time, seat time.

secondly, you may try even higher pressures -- like 40 hot. there may be less peak grip, but they may also be more responsive. ymmv, keep experimenting until you KNOW what works.

your goal, with a 1.7, is to never lose momentum. with street tires, that shouldn't be too hard -- you don't have enough grip to bind up the chassis terribly. however, sideways is never fast. hell, even turning the wheel will cause a 1.7 to lose speed. you must straighten out every freaking turn as muc as possible, in order to put all 65 hp of fury to the pavement.

that means, first off, strategizing the course by prioritizing turns. got a long straight that goes into a series of turns? go in hot with an early apex. got a short straight that goes into a turn that leads to a long straight? do everything in your power to maximize your mid corner and exit speed -- even if it means giving up the entry.

in general, i like to think that a low powered car should apex slightly earlier than a high powered car. the faster the turn, the more this is true. but every turn is different. you should be thinking of at least five turns at a time, to make sure that you are connecting them the best way possible to put power down.



grant, joe, 1.5 g's is for little old ladies.

There is a guy near here selling a shifter for 3500 including spares.
I got half a mind to pick it up.
Karts got G's question is do I got balls to drive it.

Great weekend! I was at 32 PSI cold and liked it. Not much of a change, but felt good. Honestly though, I need to work on being consistent. It took me 3 runs to get a clean time on Saturday morning
Can't blame tires, engine, anything...just gotta drive better. I only fishtailed to the point of stopping once (not a 180 either) over the whole weekend of 17+ runs. I WAS trying to be smoother

Nathan - thanks for the advice! More seat time is needed for SURE. I'll give the higher PSI a try some time.