OK, I'll give this poll thing a second try.

I feel like I've been the loudest, or biggest prick if you prefer , on this subject so I'll take responsibility & start the poll. Should Concours be a separate forum?

Seems logical to me because If I understand "automotive beauty contests" right, , not all the divisions are related to O&H. As Eric pointed out, there's only a handful of pure stock boys around, myself sort of being one of them, but many more interested in competing in Concours. This seems to be the best reason to me, for making it into a separate forum.

I however, have often been known to be wrong

I don't think that dividing this page in more seperate forums would be a good idea. I see the danger of loosing track of some things.

... but this is just Mr. Bond's opinion, who will never enter a Concours

"Never say never again"...

I believe that questions pertaining to cleaning, restoring or otherwise preserving materials, be they paint, brightwork, rubber, glass, etc. do have a place on this O/H Forum. Whether the 914 is a modified daily driver, a resurrected barn find, a nicely prepared track car or a concours contender, we can all share information with regards to the best way to remove pylon marks from fenders, tree sap, bird droppings, acid rain, and road tar from painted surfaces. It would seem that this Forum would be the natural place to find the best information for cleaning and maintaining our cars.

Paul

As a native of the Washington DC area, therefore a lifetime political observer, I've come to the conclusion that this is an extremely divisive issue. It was not meant to be. Pat asked for someone to make a poll & I stepped up. Regardless of where you mostly hang out here in 914world, you are welcome to participate in this discussion. I also believe this issue is drawing much needed attention to our little corner here in O&H .

I believe that the "Show Us Your Cars" (SUYC) section could be improved and it might help this issue.

I believe each member should have his/her own page in that section. Right now if someone FIRST posts a picture of his car, some else may SECOND post a picture of her car and someone ELSE may comment on the FIRST post, thus leapfrogging the SECOND car. So what happens? The someone ELSE quotes the first post so we have a multihundred page thread with giant repeated pictures in it (otherwise how would ANYONE know the commenting post was about the FIRST car?). And after you scroll all the way to the end of the message, a little line appears with words of encouragement like "nice car" or "way to go." If what I wrote just made sense to anyone, then what a convoluted mindset we share!!!

Anyway, each of us could then update our own personal car "thread" and each thread would be listed under our screen name. When we made a new post to our thread, it would rise to the top of the heap, just like in the Garage. Those Garage "progress" threads are awesome, just like the "restoration of a near concours" thread in the O&H section. I enjoy these thread very, very much and learn from them all the time.

The O&H thread could stay just the way it is. Concours people would get more traffic because the new SUYC area would be divided into individual cars and owners rather than the messy mishmosh we have now.

And I know our signatures can contain links to our own blogs and previous threads but am I the only one who routinely comes to this site and trolls the O&H and Garage threads looking for the latest posts? (no offense, but I'm not planning on racing my car so I'm not typically reading some other forums)

I love this place so it's OK if it stays the way it is...

Paul

Biz,

I love the idea. So long as it's on the Garage Forum. Why? Because each nailed thread would require so much admin/moderator time as to make it difficult for the moderator to ever do anything but keep the nailed posts in check. The Moderator would have to spend almost all of his/her available time making certain that the nailed threads were kept to standards, never having any time to post themselves.

Plus, unless the World set aside a separate Forum for these posts ( and, not a bad idea), the nailed post list would become too cumbersome.

Question. Say there were 1000-1200 nailed posts (could be a lot more) of individual 914's - would anyone visit them? How could they be controlled? I like the SUYC thread - went there once, to post me. Haven't been back since. A personal web address is cheap, so why not represent your 914 there?

Just my thoughts.

Pat

It would be a separate forum and everytime you posted about your own car, your thread would rise to the top. When you visited the forum you would be instantly aware of which threads had new action and you'd make an instant decision about whether to visit the thread or not.

Garage is fine for a location. A web address is cheap but how would anyone know to go visit your site? It would make it somewhat separate from this forum. I think my idea would keep it all within the 914world.

If it caught on, there might be some additional initial traffic, but later it should die down and be more regular like the current SUYC thread (which could be shut down once the new idea took root).

Paul

A separate forum might benefit all. Originality and concours are not necessarily the same thing. Originality is much more limited, it is more of a knowledge base (like the history aspect of the forum) as opposed to the concours thing which is a process art. A concours preparer might want to know about originality, but an originality researcher would care little about concours.

Agree, totally - "Originality is much more limited, it is more of a knowledge base", though I do think that a concours preparer could care a LOT about originality.

A separate forum might make sense, and I would love to visit it, but won't moderate it. My plate is too full, and I'm spending too much time here & not under my 914. So, don't ask.

Otherwise, I don't see why we can't continue as is - concours stuff is already probably 50% of the posts & we deal with it. MHO. By the way, should I register a second logon so I can speak my piece as a non-moderator? Or, am I taking this too seriously? Yeah, that's probably it.
Pat

Having been informed of a little forum history, I now believe my entire premise was 180* out of whack. The title of this forum is still wrong, but it should go back to Concours de Elegance. O&H should be a reference subsection nailed @ the top for all to use as the electronic 914 library; where only factory info, originals, flawless clones & restorations get placed as a reference. I believe that even though there are a handful of CWs, the info they need for show prep & resto/repair is going to be needed by many, may others. Perhaps this should be the poll instead?

Hmmm, interesting perspective. Yeah, the "original" forum was, as you say CdE. Yet originality is paramount to a properly prepared concours 914 - especially today. I also think there are MORE than a handful of CW's hanging around the current forum, as well as a lot of potential CW's.

However, I still think the current format can suit both needs. If you have an originality need, go to the nailed post area. Don't see what you need there - ask - we'll find the answer & post it there. If you are a CW who isn't so much concerned with originality, yet wants to know techniques for preservation/restoration - ask the question on the unnailed part of the forum. Seems to have worked OK so far. Or, am I wrong. And, if so, what should I do (short of splitting the forum) to make it better? I take no afornt to any of this, so, please, no apologies. My skin is VERY thick.
Pat

Why do we have to be hung up on forum titles?

IMHO, post anything anywhere (classified ads excluded) anytime. It's all about 914s and if you can't avoid clicking on things you don't want to read then that's your problem.

Paul, what you're describing (if I understand) is exactly what the blogs are. A singular page dedicated to each member.

When you have over 7000 members, there is a certain amount of fluff. And everyone defines fluff a little differently. For some, race info is fluff, for others OT info is fluff. We all need to accept a little responsibility for avoiding our own definition of fluff.

OK, this poll has been running almost a week. What's the concensus? Poll shows it's 2/3 in favor of doing nothing differently.

I suggest we close the poll on Sunday & go with the majority.

Anyone opposed?
Pat

I barely understood what I said! I understand there is a potential blog feature for each of us

BUT

I like to surf the site and check out my favorite areas to see what's new. If each member had a page devoted to his car in some kind of separate section, every time you put something in your section you would rise to the top and others could click on it easily to see what you're doing.

Paul

Too many forums create micro-sites. I don't think this forum is in danger of changing... only growing, in knowledge and participants.



This seems to be the best reason to me for combining them. Pour some more knowledge into the gene pool. Kelly's a prime example. Here's a guy who meticulously maintains and shows his car... seems like he'd have a lot to offer those in the Preservation and Restoration categories.

(tried to sneak this in while I was on vacation huh Al???)

I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today

I agree Eric!

If it hadn't been for my bullheaded puristic aproach, we would have never had these discussions - although they have merit.

Can we just get back to normal? Seemd to have been working OK until I opened my "former" mouth.
Pat

Poll closes at midnight tomorrow (Sunday) - pick your time zone.

We go with the consenus at closing.

Vote now, or forver hold your peace (not piece).