Hey all.. it's been a long while since my last post - Since I'm thinkin' of selling my '72 914/4 2.0 on account of 1) moving to San Francisco proper and 2) having a hard time justifying my car hobby with my desires to be a good steward to the planet (somebody has to do it!), I've been poking around on evilbay for the going rate.
Is it just me, or have 914 values - for both fours and sixes, fallen markably in the past year?
danke,
-greg
Full Version: 914 values dropping?
yes they have fallen, in fact i will pay you a total of 100$ over market value for your 914.
where should i paypal you the $115.00, of course that is if my ppi gives me promising results
where should i paypal you the $115.00, of course that is if my ppi gives me promising results
It looks like we're seeing a real difference in price for the "good" ones, and the marginal ones. A well sorted, relative rust free car seems to be getting a premium, while the oposite type cars are selling for lower prices. There doesn't seem to be a big middle group right now.
To answer your question, Greg, you are moving from an expensive 914 economy to a less expensive one. On the West coast you can get parts cars all day it seems for nothing. I have seen what people pay here for cars that would possibly be cut up on the west coast and realize that on the East coast, I have no business valuating cars. Selling on the East should land you a better price. Also, when you look at ebay adds it is hard to tell where the bidders are without any work.
Just my $.02, sorry to see you going, but SF is a kick ass place and I am going to try to move back that way someday
Just my $.02, sorry to see you going, but SF is a kick ass place and I am going to try to move back that way someday
Another point of view might be that the prices are not falling, but the amount of money people have to spend on a 30+ year old car is now much less. Gas is $3.00+/gal. Milk is like $6.00. The real estate market has crashed & now the stock market is "adjusting", 
, & so on & so on... This not good for any kind of collector car- especially cars that have been hyper inflated because "Hemi" became the word of the moment. Not pickin on Chrysler, just the latest fad. Price of 356s' seem stable no? Perhaps another 20 yrs will see 914s commanding current 356 prices.
, & so on & so on... This not good for any kind of collector car- especially cars that have been hyper inflated because "Hemi" became the word of the moment. Not pickin on Chrysler, just the latest fad. Price of 356s' seem stable no? Perhaps another 20 yrs will see 914s commanding current 356 prices.
There, now that this thread is back on topic and the BS has been moved out...
I haven't noticed a drop in price. But now that you mention it, I'll have to keep a closer eye on things.
I haven't noticed a drop in price. But now that you mention it, I'll have to keep a closer eye on things.
Interesting points, all...
If I can't get my admittedly top dollar asking price (I park the car on Newbury Street in Boston hoping to hook that impulse buyer who just purchased a 4000 dollar broche at a boutique on a whim), I'll just keep the car.
It's not so much for financial reasons as it is we're moving into downtown SFO, and I won't know if we'll have a garage until we find a place to buy in six months or a year from now. In the meantime, bringing the car to SFO will basically destroy it, leaving it on the streets with the SUV's and all that trying to park. If I brought it to SFO, it would be to drive it, not sell it, so I'm not worried about the value, per se. Selling it in the Northeast would garner a higher price, and I would have the pick of the litter in California with maybe a few bucks left over for some modifications.
The 'good steward' comment however - it's something I'm struggling with. I'm an avid cyclist and work from home - or commute on my bike when necessary. On the one hand, I think that having a car that relies heavily on recycled (meaning used) parts has it's economies and benefits, opposed to buying new with all of the plastics and such in use today. On the other hand, having a car at all is a necessary evil here in the USA - I love to drive, but I love to ride my bike more... and the 914 is far from inefficient as compared to most of the cars on the road here in the Northeast!
But, yes, I do recycle, have a compost pile, use canvas bags and shop for locally grown / raised. In fact, my computer that I type this from is made from hemp!
-greg
PS: anybody want to buy a '72 914 with lots of spare parts? ;-)
If I can't get my admittedly top dollar asking price (I park the car on Newbury Street in Boston hoping to hook that impulse buyer who just purchased a 4000 dollar broche at a boutique on a whim), I'll just keep the car.
It's not so much for financial reasons as it is we're moving into downtown SFO, and I won't know if we'll have a garage until we find a place to buy in six months or a year from now. In the meantime, bringing the car to SFO will basically destroy it, leaving it on the streets with the SUV's and all that trying to park. If I brought it to SFO, it would be to drive it, not sell it, so I'm not worried about the value, per se. Selling it in the Northeast would garner a higher price, and I would have the pick of the litter in California with maybe a few bucks left over for some modifications.
The 'good steward' comment however - it's something I'm struggling with. I'm an avid cyclist and work from home - or commute on my bike when necessary. On the one hand, I think that having a car that relies heavily on recycled (meaning used) parts has it's economies and benefits, opposed to buying new with all of the plastics and such in use today. On the other hand, having a car at all is a necessary evil here in the USA - I love to drive, but I love to ride my bike more... and the 914 is far from inefficient as compared to most of the cars on the road here in the Northeast!
But, yes, I do recycle, have a compost pile, use canvas bags and shop for locally grown / raised. In fact, my computer that I type this from is made from hemp!
-greg
PS: anybody want to buy a '72 914 with lots of spare parts? ;-)
QUOTE(Johny Blackstain @ Jul 29 2007, 07:11 PM) 
Another point of view might be that the prices are not falling, but the amount of money people have to spend on a 30+ year old car is now much less. Gas is $3.00+/gal. Milk is like $6.00. The real estate market has crashed & now the stock market is "adjusting",
, & so on & so on... This not good for any kind of collector car- especially cars that have been hyper inflated because "Hemi" became the word of the moment. Not pickin on Chrysler, just the latest fad. Price of 356s' seem stable no? Perhaps another 20 yrs will see 914s commanding current 356 prices.OK, here's my take on all this.
Let's start with the stock market. You're either a day trader (& you WILL lose, though a SMALL minority sometimes make some money) or you're in it for the long haul. The Index was just about 2000 when I got in. Bought heavily - sold some through the years, bought them back when they were depressed & good values - mostly held. No additonal investment. Played it like it should be. Smiling today & going out to but tomorrow!
Discretionary things like second homes, collector cars are just that! If you have the cash to buy them, it drives the market upward. If you're being cautious, the market will suffer. Just like the stock market. If you get too wrapped up in profiteering, you'll usually makes some mistakes - but not always.
Yep the markets are suffering for homes & collector cars. But it's done this how many times? Remember the fiasco years of the early '90's for "collector" cars. Lotsa people lost lotsa money because they overvalued lotsa junk. I don't pity the Ferrari buyers of that era becasue they were greedy & stupid.
Every market has a means for correcting itself under current circumstances - that's why Capitalsm works so well. Everything corrects, the mood increases, and so do profits. It all works out for the better. Keyword is "patience".
Though I do believe the stock market is a little too "sensitized" these days. Too many people loking for the fast buck. But it all works out in the long run - I'm happy to say.
Any degradation in 914 values will change with the next "season". But who cares? Are you going to sell the thing tha means so much to you?
QUOTE
PS: anybody want to buy a '72 914 with lots of spare parts? ;-)
got any pics?
-JON
QUOTE(gfulcher @ Jul 29 2007, 07:35 PM)
Interesting points, all...
If I can't get my admittedly top dollar asking price (I park the car on Newbury Street in Boston hoping to hook that impulse buyer who just purchased a 4000 dollar broche at a boutique on a whim), I'll just keep the car.
It's not so much for financial reasons as it is we're moving into downtown SFO, and I won't know if we'll have a garage until we find a place to buy in six months or a year from now. In the meantime, bringing the car to SFO will basically destroy it, leaving it on the streets with the SUV's and all that trying to park. If I brought it to SFO, it would be to drive it, not sell it, so I'm not worried about the value, per se. Selling it in the Northeast would garner a higher price, and I would have the pick of the litter in California with maybe a few bucks left over for some modifications.
The 'good steward' comment however - it's something I'm struggling with. I'm an avid cyclist and work from home - or commute on my bike when necessary. On the one hand, I think that having a car that relies heavily on recycled (meaning used) parts has it's economies and benefits, opposed to buying new with all of the plastics and such in use today. On the other hand, having a car at all is a necessary evil here in the USA - I love to drive, but I love to ride my bike more... and the 914 is far from inefficient as compared to most of the cars on the road here in the Northeast!
But, yes, I do recycle, have a compost pile, use canvas bags and shop for locally grown / raised. In fact, my computer that I type this from is made from hemp!
-greg
PS: anybody want to buy a '72 914 with lots of spare parts? ;-)
Good plan! Move to a state that has a population growth that is out of controll, Construction is at a ll time high, the avarage commute is around 60miles(one way in most cases) the worst traffic in the worland.Soccor moms drive gas guzziling Excursions and Escalades ......
And you are worrying about occasionally driving a 914 to save the enviroment!?
I commend your efforts,
QUOTE(toon1 @ Jul 30 2007, 12:16 PM)
Good plan! Move to a state that has a population growth that is out of controll, Construction is at a ll time high, the avarage commute is around 60miles(one way in most cases) the worst traffic in the worland.Soccor moms drive gas guzziling Excursions and Escalades ......
And you are worrying about occasionally driving a 914 to save the enviroment!? <_<
I commend your efforts,
I guess the original point of the post got somewhat lost by the distraction of my desire to reduce my impact on the environment.. .I guess the right thing to do is scrap my 914, and my '73 Thing and turn it into Prius parts if at all possible. Oh, wait.. Prius's aren't really made from many recycled parts... I forgot.. anyhow, I realize that my desire to reduce my affect on the planet is a personal one, knowing full well that my efforts won't really make that much difference in the grand scheme of things, especially if I simply pass along the car to someone else.. But at least I'll be able to live with myself knowing that my personal impact has been reduced - mostly on account of riding my bike and not consuming unnecessarily. My justifications are selfish, I know...
The decision to move to San Francisco is multi-fold as well.. Living in a fun, open-minded city where having a car isn't necessary is attractive to us both. I work from home, so commuting is a non-issue (also less of an impact). But damn it, those canyon and coastal twisty roads are awfully enticing...
The original point being though is about 914 values - I think the points about the stock market and overall economic health are certainly tied directly to the trend for a reduction in selling price... Be it the market, the demand... whatever - I've just noticed a downward trend in the selling price. So maybe turning my 914 into a compost bin (after removing all of the paint of course) is a good one after all.
-greg
QUOTE(gfulcher @ Jul 30 2007, 02:21 PM)
So maybe turning my 914 into a compost bin (after removing all of the paint of course) is a good one after all.
-greg
I completely disagree w/ this statement & will not bite into it's obvious provocative nature
. However, I don't feel that you've given this enough thought. Here's another angle- Garage Queens have virtually no impact on the environment & are worth money, a lot more than a rusting garden compost bin. Chew on that one
.
Boy, didn't think you could get more open minded than the home of submarine pilot Kennedy.
If you work from home, why not consider moving to North Hampton MA. Really nice town in a 5 college area. Plenty of free thinking going on and very nice scenery too.
If you work from home, why not consider moving to North Hampton MA. Really nice town in a 5 college area. Plenty of free thinking going on and very nice scenery too.
I see no drop in prices, but I have noticed a lack of "quality" cars on the market.
But, since the exceptional cars still bring the money, I still say they are on the rise.
Oh, and for those that think there is no such thing as a 20k 4cyc
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-Porsch...1QQcmdZViewItem
But, since the exceptional cars still bring the money, I still say they are on the rise.
Oh, and for those that think there is no such thing as a 20k 4cyc
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-Porsch...1QQcmdZViewItem
My 2 cents, keep the 914, they get great gas milage even with todays standards and stay with the 914world guys. Stop shopping at Wal-Mart and Target due too the fact they import almost everthing from China,India and Mexico who are the most polluting countries in the world, not the good ole United States of America. 
the whole " green earth" things sticks in my crop a bit. When I see politicians line their campaign fun with developers money, stand on their soap box about a green enviroment and get in their privet jet and fly to the next venue!
Or movie stars who live in 6000 sq. ft homes, work in the most glutiness industry known to man and say "oh I drive a hybrid to save the enviroment". It's a bit hypocritical.
Anyway..... NO, I think 914's are not losing value, they seem to be gaining a bit based on what I've seen them go for around here
Or movie stars who live in 6000 sq. ft homes, work in the most glutiness industry known to man and say "oh I drive a hybrid to save the enviroment". It's a bit hypocritical.
Anyway..... NO, I think 914's are not losing value, they seem to be gaining a bit based on what I've seen them go for around here
QUOTE(Ferg @ Jul 30 2007, 11:46 AM)
I see no drop in prices, but I have noticed a lack of "quality" cars on the market.
But, since the exceptional cars still bring the money, I still say they are on the rise.
Oh, and for those that think there is no such thing as a 20k 4cyc
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-Porsch...1QQcmdZViewItem
Interesting that the buyer of this $20K porsche had zero feed-back. Never bought anything on e-Bay before, and first thing he buys is this car.
Can't resist.
On topic. If you think you are going to make money on a 914 you are probably smoking some pretty good stuff. These are fun cars for the hobby guys that's all. Sure there are exception. The 1 in 100 low milage, rust free, looks like it came out of the factory ones. The original 6's. 916 ...
But most of the folks in 914's are csob's and that is what keeps the price for run of the mill cars reasonable. We never get out of them what we put into them. We do this for fun (sometimes a pretty sick definition of fun)
You are in a unique position to 'make' money. Sell yours on the east coast and start another when you get settled on the west coast. Price differential appears to be about $1000 - about the cost of moving one from the west to the east.
Off topic.
I tend to be a bit of a tree hugger myself. Not nearly as dedicated as you but where I have two choices that are reasonably equal I'll take the 'greener' approach. The polution from a gas lawnmower is crazy compared to what you put out in a 914. Easy choice - I went electric on the lawnmower. That polution saving alone will more than offset my choice of playing with an old car. Will auto racing be shunned in 10 years time as wasteful. Possibly but that shouldn't put lepper status on those who enjoy cars today.
For those of us who do want to lessen our impact on the planet we have choices while sticking with this great little car. Put a little diesel in it! And before everyone jumps on the diesels reputation I would ask you to google Lemans Winner! If you want to go whole hog have a look at what that guy up in oregon has done with electric. Way pricey but man I'd love to do that.
Anyone seen how much Al Gore spends on utilities
On topic. If you think you are going to make money on a 914 you are probably smoking some pretty good stuff. These are fun cars for the hobby guys that's all. Sure there are exception. The 1 in 100 low milage, rust free, looks like it came out of the factory ones. The original 6's. 916 ...
But most of the folks in 914's are csob's and that is what keeps the price for run of the mill cars reasonable. We never get out of them what we put into them. We do this for fun (sometimes a pretty sick definition of fun)
You are in a unique position to 'make' money. Sell yours on the east coast and start another when you get settled on the west coast. Price differential appears to be about $1000 - about the cost of moving one from the west to the east.
Off topic.
I tend to be a bit of a tree hugger myself. Not nearly as dedicated as you but where I have two choices that are reasonably equal I'll take the 'greener' approach. The polution from a gas lawnmower is crazy compared to what you put out in a 914. Easy choice - I went electric on the lawnmower. That polution saving alone will more than offset my choice of playing with an old car. Will auto racing be shunned in 10 years time as wasteful. Possibly but that shouldn't put lepper status on those who enjoy cars today.
For those of us who do want to lessen our impact on the planet we have choices while sticking with this great little car. Put a little diesel in it! And before everyone jumps on the diesels reputation I would ask you to google Lemans Winner! If you want to go whole hog have a look at what that guy up in oregon has done with electric. Way pricey but man I'd love to do that.
Anyone seen how much Al Gore spends on utilities
eric914 wrote:
Regarding the $20k '71 914-4, I'm curious how you get a full concours winner with the wrong, non-original motor in it (2.0l TIV in a '71?), a Nardi wheel and an Optima battery...
If you work from home, why not consider moving to North Hampton MA. Really nice town in a 5 college area. Plenty of free thinking going on and very nice scenery too.While I agree that Northampton is a great little town, it's a small town. San Francisco is a major metropolitan area -- the two are hardly comparable. Doesn't mean part of me doesn't wish I still lived in NoHo from time to time, or elsewhere in the Happy Valley (Pioneer Valley / Connecticut River Valley).
Regarding the $20k '71 914-4, I'm curious how you get a full concours winner with the wrong, non-original motor in it (2.0l TIV in a '71?), a Nardi wheel and an Optima battery...
QUOTE(smj @ Jul 30 2007, 07:44 PM)
Regarding the $20k '71 914-4, I'm curious how you get a full concours winner with the wrong, non-original motor in it (2.0l TIV in a '71?), a Nardi wheel and an Optima battery...
side shifter, 2 ltr fuchs, speakers in the doors......
I don't think prices are dropping. I look at the cars on AA that were sold a year or two ago and wish I could buy them now!
I'm REALLY happy with my orange beauty. Cost 14K and I put 9K into fixing it up. So, am I crazy for 23K into a 1.8 1974? I don't think so (or at least I can't admit it to myself) because I feel like I have a new car!
Paul
I'm REALLY happy with my orange beauty. Cost 14K and I put 9K into fixing it up. So, am I crazy for 23K into a 1.8 1974? I don't think so (or at least I can't admit it to myself) because I feel like I have a new car!
Paul
QUOTE(smj @ Jul 30 2007, 07:44 PM)
eric914 wrote:
If you work from home, why not consider moving to North Hampton MA. Really nice town in a 5 college area. Plenty of free thinking going on and very nice scenery too.While I agree that Northampton is a great little town, it's a small town. San Francisco is a major metropolitan area -- the two are hardly comparable. Doesn't mean part of me doesn't wish I still lived in NoHo from time to time, or elsewhere in the Happy Valley (Pioneer Valley / Connecticut River Valley).
Regarding the $20k '71 914-4, I'm curious how you get a full concours winner with the wrong, non-original motor in it (2.0l TIV in a '71?), a Nardi wheel and an Optima battery...
I suspect that it would score well in the performance class in Parade.
I agree that it will be interesting to see if it stays sold, or if we see it relisted in the future.
Very nice car either way.
Ferg
I bought my first 3 years ago for $4150. 1976 2.0L with 33K miles on it after it had sat in a garage for 21 years. I have put $5000 and 30K into it and I would be lucky to get $6000 for it.
The '71 ebay wonder in question belongs to a personal friend of mine. Although he does not frequent this "world", he assembled one of the nicest well balanced 914's in the New England area. With the exception of the body work and paint, he did this all by himself. I was there when he acquired it several years ago from the original owner. I assisted him in certain areas of disassembly and assembly. It had the usual hell hole and jack support issues, but it was a prime candidate to save in these parts. A year later he picked up a rusty '76 complete and never restored. Perfect interior and low mileage on the mechanicals. I convinced him to change out the '71 1.7 with the '76 2.0 running gear and interior. He added a lot of personal touches as you can see in the pictures. After working out the bugs last year, this car ran like new. It is a gem.
This past May he scored a 1st in the Zone 1 Newport event. Very high score. Top 914. Originality does not factor into this car. It is well presented, balanced and sorted.
I'm glad he got what he was asking for. He is a bit down today as he has to give
up his pride and joy. Couldn't keep it for reasons I will not explain here.
So what is the message here? Are the quality 914's going to command premium prices even if they aren't pure and original? I can tell you this. If this car had the original numbers matching 1.7 with tail shifter and original interior, he would be lucky to have taken half of the $19.5k.
Don
This past May he scored a 1st in the Zone 1 Newport event. Very high score. Top 914. Originality does not factor into this car. It is well presented, balanced and sorted.
I'm glad he got what he was asking for. He is a bit down today as he has to give
up his pride and joy. Couldn't keep it for reasons I will not explain here.
So what is the message here? Are the quality 914's going to command premium prices even if they aren't pure and original? I can tell you this. If this car had the original numbers matching 1.7 with tail shifter and original interior, he would be lucky to have taken half of the $19.5k.
Don
The 19.5K owner still didn't make any money on that car...
VERY nicely done, but the 8 million hours involved make it a $$$ losing proposition.
BJH
VERY nicely done, but the 8 million hours involved make it a $$$ losing proposition.
BJH
I watch 914 adds for sale daily primarily in California.
Prices always seem to go down a bit at the beginning of summer. And spike as summer comes to a close.
It has been this way for years. It is the standard trend.
The only exception are 914/6s and dam near perfect 4s. Those prices just keep going up and up.
Parts cars are at the lowest price we will see for this year. At least for a couple of months more anyway.
It has been like this for years. Same trend... Just a different year.
NOTE: NorCal is still the cheapest place to buy a parts car or daily driver that needs a bit (or a lot) of work. PERIOD. If I owned a 914 parts house. That is where I would buy my cars.
Sacramento and Central Cali is second best. Then Sandiego, Inland Empire, LA county then the Big OC in that order.
Thats how I see it anyway.
Clayton
Prices always seem to go down a bit at the beginning of summer. And spike as summer comes to a close.
It has been this way for years. It is the standard trend.
The only exception are 914/6s and dam near perfect 4s. Those prices just keep going up and up.
Parts cars are at the lowest price we will see for this year. At least for a couple of months more anyway.
It has been like this for years. Same trend... Just a different year.
NOTE: NorCal is still the cheapest place to buy a parts car or daily driver that needs a bit (or a lot) of work. PERIOD. If I owned a 914 parts house. That is where I would buy my cars.
Sacramento and Central Cali is second best. Then Sandiego, Inland Empire, LA county then the Big OC in that order.
Thats how I see it anyway.
Clayton
QUOTE(sixerdon @ Jul 30 2007, 07:51 PM)
The '71 ebay wonder in question belongs to a personal friend of mine. Although he does not frequent this "world", he assembled one of the nicest well balanced 914's in the New England area. With the exception of the body work and paint, he did this all by himself. ...
I have the usual outsiders view of concours -- maniacal judges crawling under a car checking for the right colored paint daubs for that month of manufacture lined up correctly on bolts/nuts, taking off points if the original foil engine bay emblems have shifted and left a small smear of glue exposed. This is what prompted the question about winning concours, I assumed that "full concours" included a large measure of originality. But hey, that's what I get for assuming...
Sorry your pal had to give up the car. Here's hoping things turn for the better, and he can build an even better one next time.
QUOTE(gfulcher @ Jul 30 2007, 11:21 AM)
The decision to move to San Francisco is multi-fold as well.. Living in a fun, open-minded city where having a car isn't necessary is attractive to us both. -greg
Greg,
I'm a native 3rd Generation San Franciscan and I have a VERY CLOSED MIND!
No the prices are actually increasing. I have sold moe 914s this year than in the past two years combined. Not all of them show up on the CAMP 914 website because some don't even reach CAMP. They are sold before I get them.
I have sold 4 cylinder 914s for $18k and 6 cylinder 914s for $40K and 27K.
Restoration shops are busy getting 6 cylinder 914s back to prime condition. People feel the 914 is going to the next 356 or early 911.
But there is definetly a lot of not-premium 914s for sale that sellers are seeking a premium price for. ALA ebay and craigslist, world and club sites are overflowing with them.
Good cars will bring the right money, bad cars will languish.
Here is an example of a good 914.
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/20...rman/index.html
CCLIN914HEAVEN
I have sold 4 cylinder 914s for $18k and 6 cylinder 914s for $40K and 27K.
Restoration shops are busy getting 6 cylinder 914s back to prime condition. People feel the 914 is going to the next 356 or early 911.
But there is definetly a lot of not-premium 914s for sale that sellers are seeking a premium price for. ALA ebay and craigslist, world and club sites are overflowing with them.
Good cars will bring the right money, bad cars will languish.
Here is an example of a good 914.
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/20...rman/index.html
CCLIN914HEAVEN
a very clean '74 2.0L just sold for $13K here on the east coast and was sent back west....right car w/ the right buyer.
QUOTE(Brian Mifsud @ Jul 31 2007, 02:00 PM)
Greg,
I'm a native 3rd Generation San Franciscan and I have a VERY CLOSED MIND!
Ahhhhhh.... So you're the one!
-g
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