The early 1973 914-2Ls were subject to the BH & BO Wheel recalls as listed at the link below (those built up through Dec. 1972):
> http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Recalls.htm

Scroll to those recalls near the bottom of the chart, click the hot links at the right 2 columns, & read the actual letters to the dealers for each & you can see which applied to your early 914-2.0/914S. That's how I identified which applied to mine.

I put a post earlier here on page 9 - 6th down, which discussed this in detail.

THIS SHOWS THE "CORRECT" INSET AT THE CENTER OF THE BACK OF FUCHS ALLOYS - WHICH SHOULD ALSO BE ON ALL WHEELS FOR 1973+ 914s WITH THE SELF-CENTERING FRONT HUBS:

Click to view attachment

EDITED 3-24-12

Tom:

Where did your info on the tire OE come from? What review I did did not yield a factory recommended tire manufacturer.

BTW, My "SIX" came with XAS tube type tires.

James,

True that they apparently didn't tell anyone that they spec'd a particular manufacturer, & it seems that they sourced from several during the 914's production run, as discussed below. As far as I know so far, none of the manufacturers produced a tire design specific to ANY model of the 914s, but they probably had a "favorite" tire type/mfgr. from their racing experience. That may have been the Dunlop SP 57 - because they supplied the 914-2L cars with those tires in 165HR15 size/speed-rating to both R&T & MT for their early 1973 CY road tests of that then "new model", & Porsche|Audi (VW USA) would've wanted to "put their best foot forward" to get the best press!

All of the USA imported 914/6s (such as yours) were from the 1970 & 71 MYs as I understand it, & therefore did have the "older style" tube-type tires & rims/wheels, which would have had "plain" wheels size markings such as: 5-1/2x15, 4-1/2x15, 6x15 etc. - with no letter designator after the rim width. They also would not have had the 1973-76 MY self-centering front hubs/disks with the raised lip at the center - fitting into the indent on the back of the alloy around the center hole in the pic in my prior post (unless changed later), but the 914/6 may have been a completely different front hub/disk as I understood.

The same would be true for the 1970-72 914/4s. Although, they may have done the switch to some late MY 72 cars, as they did to carry-over older parts into early-1973 MY 914s, such as with my early-73 914-2.0/914S having the "new-style" front brake calipers with 2 bleeders, while the rears are the "old-style" with just one bleeder. Maybe other 1972 914/4 owners can speak to their front hubs/disks on this matter?

The switch to tubeless tires was in model year 1973, during 1972 - when Porcshe/VW switched to the rims & alloy wheels marked with the "J" designator - e.g.: the "5-1/2Jx15" on the pic of the back of the Fuchs 2L Alloy in my post above (there may have also been some 1972 models with these rims later in that MY).

My OE tire & wheel info came from extensive research online (here, rennlist/914 SIG, etc., etc.), as well as in reviews in 1972-74 Road & Track, Motor Trend, etc. road tests of the 1973 914 & 914-2.0, tire tests/ratings & period ads, etc. Most of those sources referenced the Dunlop SP57 in the appropriate 155SR15 or 165HR15 as the OE tire for the 914-1.7L or 914-2.0L respectively. They'd also referenced less often that Continentals & Michelins were variously delivered on 914s of that era, & I've know other 914 new 914 buyers who got them in CA with Semperits as well (maybe dealer substitues?).

I know that my own early-73 914-2.0 was delivered to the original/PO on 11/9/72 in CA, with Semperits (M401s) mounted on Rivieras - the latter of which was NOT proper OE fitment to my chagrin - esp. at their replacement cost & difficulty today! However, they may have been part of the dealer scam which took my 2L Alloys as discussed in prior posts, since Semperit M401s & M266s were readily available here in SoCal during the 1970s, & they were less expensive than the Dunlops & Michelins, etc. - but generally performed as well or better than the others - both according to the period tire tests/ratings, ads & IMHO!

TIRE FITMENT FOR 914-1.7 & "914S" (914-2.0) FROM EARLY-1973 MY PORSCHE|AUDI SALES BROCHURE

Click to view attachment



LOW RES PIC OF COVER OF EARLY-1973 MY ABOVE PORSCHE|AUDI "PORSCHE 914" SALES BROCHURE - FOR REFERENCE OF ABOVE SPECS

Click to view attachment


SEE NEXT 2 POSTS FOR THE MT & R&T ROAD TEST SPECS WITH OE TIRE INFO.....

"914/S" (914-2.0/"914S") TIRE FITMENT AT SPECS FROM 2/73 R&T ROAD TEST ARTICLE

Click to view attachment

...see MT 1/73 at next post....

"914S" (914-2.0) TIRE FITMENT AT SPECS FROM 1/73 MT ROAD TEST ARTICLE

Click to view attachment


Hope this helps!

I always thought the "J" designation was not necessarily an indicator of a "tubeless" wheel, but rather a rim design which attempted to prevent a tire from coming off the wheel in case of an extreme failure. This would be more necessary with a tubeless tire I suppose. My memory is clouded by 39 years, but I thought sure my new '70 had tubeless tires. Since US cars had them in '57 (I worked in a service station then) I am surprised that the Germans waited until '73.

You're right on with the "J" rim design & purpose was to go to tubeless without the risk of slow/continuous &/or instant deflation without the tubes inside!

Das German tardiness vus due to das German cranky engineers I zuppose!

I was also told back in the 1970's that the tubes could get pinched & punctured more easily with those "J" rims, & that I'd need to switch wheels to use the tube-type tires on my 914.

Can anyone confirm that, cuz it would affect whether I can even use the XAS on the Fuchs 2L Alloys????

I remember that my uncle's 58 vette had tubeless too, back in 63! ...one "old fart" to another!

mine as all the others where origanally 1.7 as far as i can tell. like many 914's they have been converted to 2.0's or sixes.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=61696&hl=

mike

EDITED - DELETE

So Johhny B - out of curiosity, how did the judges react to your Dunlop SP Sport A2+ 195/65HR15 at the Charlotte show & those since summer 2007 ????

I have XAS's mounted on my "SIX's" Mahle's and they perform just fine.

In regards to the Dunlop SP Sport A2+" 195/65HR15, it is the profile that would get you dinged as it does not conform to the OEM specs. A nice tyre otherwise.

I suspect that the tire manufacturer delection was more a function of cost rather than from ""favorite" tire type/mfgr. from their racing experience".

I belive that all wheels offerd by Porsche were "J" designated (at least per their parts manual). The use of a tube was more the tyre manufacturer's tyre design choice.

My point in regards to the Concours discussion, authentication on what tyre is correct for show presentation can only be determined by a COA (which I've yet to see one that lists the tyre manufacturer, and we know the questionable accuracy of COA's) and what Porsche factory documentation that was delivered with the car (i.e. Onwer's manual, affixed car labels/stickers). Thus my statment that correct tyre is one where the manufacturer/tire design (tread pattern)/profile (size and speed rating) that was available during the MY production.

I must have missed something in my readings. I thought that the bodies were produced by Karman Coach Works and delivered to either VW or Porsche for final trime fitment and running gear installation. No 6's were ever produced at the VW factory, and only a number of 4's after Porsche obtained the final rights to the design ever were seen a the Porsche factory.

Am I wrong?

BTW All Y'all -
(that's plural for Y'all )

Even that Dunlop SP is now NLA! The only 2 tires close to a swap/upsize fitment for 914 wheels available today from Dunlop (nee Goodyear brand) are these two 195/65HR15s at the links below - & they're NOT OE "Dunlop SP 57":

Branded as "SP 5000" but a "wild & crazy kinda..." tread pattern:
http://www.dunloptires.com/dunlop/display_...00&zipCode=

More "conventional Tread Pattern, but not branded as "SP":
http://www.dunloptires.com/dunlop/display_...00&zipCode=

I've found nobody yet which carries the Michelin XWX or XZX in a tubeless variety 165HR15, and their XAS is tube-type - as 1 of the only 2 period/OEM tire manufacturers out there.

The other - Pirelli CN36 is also tube-type & currently only available in the M485 Option size/rating of 185/70VR15 - although the Lucas Tires guy said they plan to reintroduce a 165HR15 to be mfgd in Ireland, & have moved the dies there earlier this year (2009).

This only leaves the Vredestein 165HR15 tubeless radial as the only correct size/rating/tubeless variety available today, & while they were in business mfg tires in the Netherlands during the 1970s, they apparently weren't supplying tires to the factory for the 914s & it's unclear if they did so in the OE 1973my Spec'd. 155SR15 &/or 165HR15 tubeless radials for the 1970's aftermarket.

The 1970's Tire Manufacturers of the day that manufactured either OE* &/or aftermarket tires for the 914s which I recall were:
Dunlop*
Michelin* & *** & (**?)
Continental*
Semperit (*?)
Cooper (*?)
Kleber (a Michelin subsidiary - *?)
Pirelli (*?) & (***?) & ***(only w/-185/70VR15 @ M485 Option)

Other 1970's Tire Manufacturers of the day that manufactured some aftermarket tires for the 914s that may or MAY NOT be CW acceptable which I recall were:
Vredestein** (not sure if proper size/rating offered back then?)
Bridgestone
Firestone
Goodyear
Sears (various contract suppliers, incl. the latter 2 above)
others...?

* ------- Known OE 914 Tire Supplier
(*?) ---- Possible OE 914 Tire Supplier
(?) ------ Possible Aftermarket 914 Sizes Tire Supplier in 1970s
** ------ Currently Supplier of 165HR15 &/or 155SR15 Tubeless Radials per OE Spec (1973 & ??)
(**?) --- Possible Current Supplier of 165HR15 &/or 155SR15 Tubeless Radials per OE Spec (1973 & ??)
*** ----- Currently Supplier of 165HR15 &/or 155SR15 Tube-type Radials per OE Spec (not sure which MYs)
(***?) -- Possible Current Supplier of 165HR15 &/or 155SR15 Tube-type Radials per OE Spec (NOT proper spec where Tubeless were OE (not sure which MYs)

>>>>>> If not noted, then they probably only now offer 195x15 &/or other suitable but non-OE sizes.

> Note that Porsche|Audi's early-1973 MY 914 Sales Brochure's Specs on the 4th pg. which I posted earlier in this thread a few up - Specifies either 155SR15 Tubeless (914 with 1.7L) & 165HR15 Tubeless (914S with 2.0L).

I do not have the comparable sales brochures for the other MYs, so others will need to step in & clarify Tube or Tubeless for each MY.

OTHERS OUT THERE PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CLARIFY &/OR ADD TO THE ABOVE LIST!

True again, Porsche &/or VW selected from several manufacturers based upon availability & whatever bulk deal they negotiated with the various suppliers, which I know at least included Dunlop, Michelin & Continental, as well as possibly others such as Semperit, Pirelli, Cooper, etc.

My point was that the Dunlop SP 57 was supplied for the press coverage road tests, so that may have been the one which they felt performed best as of early 1973 on their "new" 914S/914-2.0 as noted in the R&T & MT Road Test Articles' pix which I'd posted above!? However, it also could have just been happen-stance, as you noted.

With regards to "J" wheels - what I've read that they were new for the 914/4s in the 1973 MY - corresponding to the use of Tubeless Radials (instead of tube-type as in prior MYs). The 914-6s may have been a different matter, since they utilized the 5-Lug Porsche wheels, and you 6ers would know more about that aspect than I!

As to the COA - they're a joke for many 914s, & useless in this matter because tires wouldn't be covered - except if a particular Optional Tire/Wheel fitment were listed! ...then it's an easy answer as to what should be on their 914!!! ...IF they can find those wheels & Tires today?????

As to Factory/Marketing Arm Documentation which you referenced for CW documentation at shows - the PORSCHE|AUDI arm of VW USA was the marketing arm here in the USA for 1969-1977 when 914s of the 1970-1976 MY were sold. It was in that spirit, specifically & only for the "early" 1973 MY 914s, that I had posted the 4 pg. PORSCHE|AUDI 914 Sales Brochure, on which the 4th pg. Specs.specifically state that Tubeless tires & "J" wheels were the appropriate Factory OE fitment for that 1st half of the 73MY. I'll admit to the possibility that it could have changed in the 2nd half when the 914S nomenclature was changed to 914 2.0, but I have no documentation on that part of the 73MY - nor on the other MYs.

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Brochures.htm

I do have in my possession - an actual hard copy of the bigger/longer 12pg. version of that early-1973 MY PORSCHE|AUDI 914 sales brochure available at their dealers, which has the same front cover & back cover with the Spec. Sheet, as well as all of the information of the 4 pg. one (albeit in a different layout) - as well as additional information & pix. That 12 pg. brochure is also available at the 914 SIG webpage below, but the 4 pg. one has more legible pages linked thereto. I've supplied Jeff Bowlsby with better pix of my 12 pg. brochure, which I'm sure he'll post there too/instead, when he gets a chance.

Below is posted a detailed pic form my 12 pg. Brochure which clearly states the wheel & tire fitment as Factory OE for both the 914 (1.7L) & 914S (2.0L) Models of the early-1973 MY. Additionally, the bottom of both the 4 pg. & 12 pg. Specs. have the disclaimer that they can change the specs. at any time without notice.

THE EARLY-1973 914 BROCHURE'S SPEC. BELOW -I WOULD SAY THAT THE ONLY TOTALLY CORRECT TIRE FOR 914S OF THAT PERIOD WAS TUBELESS:
Detail from my 12 pg. Brochure's Specs. on Wheels & Tires:
Click to view attachment

Low Rez Front & Back Covers of 12 pg. Brochure from Web Link above:
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Given the above, IMHO - I again say that the more appropriate course for PCA et al's CW scoring would be to rate the Tire aspect based upon the maximum number of attributes for a particular model & year garner the best point score in the Wheels & Tires category (but then, I'm not a member).

IMHO -it would seem an appropriate course of action for those whose 914s Spec'd. Tubeless tires, that they contact Vredestein to see if they can get a letter confirming that they either supplied OES tires to Porsche/VW for the 914s, &/or if they had available in 1970s aftermarket (non-OES) Tubeless Radial Tires in the 914's OE spec'd. size (e.g.: 165HR15 or 155SR15).

EDITED - DELETE

The Michelin 165SR15 XZX sold by Coker at a mere $169 is a tubless tire.

http://store.coker.com/search.php?mode=sea...bstring=165SR15

For those who need H rated 165's they have the XAS tube type at $240 and the Vredestein at $105. Apparently neither of these are "perfect" for 914 2.0's.

http://store.coker.com/search.php?mode=sea...bstring=165HR15

The S rated XZX should meet even the most discriminating judge's standards for a 1.7 with the optional 5.5" wheels or a 1.8.

Jim - the problem with that tire is that it's SR rated - not the HR spec. for 2L 914/4s - ergo I didn't include it, because it's not the correct tire for 914-2.0/914S models, but it's probably an acceptable "upgrade" for 914-1.7L cars - but I do not know how CW would rate points for it???

You mean it is an "upgrade" because it is tubeless? I am still not convinced that all 914-4's did not come with tubless tires as OE. I realize the 2.0's call for H's which is why I included the less than perfect options of the XAS and the Vredestein.

Tom,

ALL early 914's came with tubes in the tires - ALL! Why? - I have no idea, because the wheels were set for tubeless. Fact is, if you have an early 914 (and I don't know when "early" ended), to be 100% purist you'll need to have tube type tires.

Most of you know my feelings on this, so you can easilly whip me at a hardcore concours. So be it.

Pat -

I think that - between your known OE fitment as an original owner 72 914, & my documentation pretty well set the intended change-over point to Tubeless at the start of the 1973 MY - along with a set of other "refinements" to the 914s, as discussed below.

All -

The 2 marketing/sale brochures which I posted above should clearly indicate that as of the 1973 MY - Tubeless tires were the standard OE fitment on both the 1.7L & 2.0L models, and a Porsche|Audi document such as the 2 which I posted above should be incontrovertible proof to the "wankers" at PCA that they are the appropriate type of tire for the 1973 MY 914s - & probably for the following 1974-76 MYs as well.

Both the 1/73 Motor Trend & 2/73 Road & Track road tests/specs (specs ostensibly from Porsche/Audi/VW & observation on the company supplied test cars) also indicate "Dunlop" & "Dunlop SP57" tires (respectively) of the Tubeless type, thereby confirming the sales brochure's specs with 2 other independent sources. I believe that Journalism students are taught that just 1 confirmation is adequate, & I've provided 2 - 1973 "official" sales brochures with specs + 2 period magazine road test articles with specs. to confirm same.

I don't know what more I can do to "prove" to the skeptics & PCA's CW judges that the 155SR15 for 1.7L & 165HR15 for 2.0L - both in TUBELESS radial tires, is/are the proper OE fitment on the 1973 MY 914s!!??

Moreover, given that Pat's 914-1.7L is a later 1972 MY which WAS originally fitted with Tube-type tires, & a number of other things I've read said that 1973 MY was the changeover to Tubeless tires in conjunction with the "J" rims for same --- tah-dah --- I think it's safe to say that the change from "early" tube-type to "late" tubeless tires was the 1973 MY, as documented with the early-73 sales brochure's specs. As quoted from the Porsche website on the 1973 1.7 & 2.0 Models, some of those changes were:

"Modifications to the 1973 models included, for example, a 7 cm shorter rear skirt, continuous matt black bumpers and an improved gearshift mechanism, which had often been subject to criticism. For an additional charge a luxury package was also available to order, with the following features: velour carpets, sports steering wheel, central console with clock, oil thermometer and voltmeter, leather sleeve for the gear stick, two-tone horn, roll bar with vinyl covering and chrome surrounds. The sports package included alloy wheels, stabilisers on the front and rear axles and halogen headlights."

There are some possible "extra parts carry-over from pre-73 parts stocks" in some early-1973 cars built in 1972, so some could've still had the "early" non-"J" wheels with tubeless tires - I don't know? For example: the "1st 1000" +/- noted by Mike in Ceres, CA with the link to his thread have a variety of "carry-over 72 parts" on them as Porsche/VW used up their on-hand stock. Another example on 914s after the 1st 1000+/-, is my 73 2L - which was built 9/72 & has the "late" front disk brake calipers with 2 bleeder valves each, while the rear calipers are still the older 1 bleeder valve style, but it has "J" wheels & Tubeless tires.

Neither the COA nor window sticker will give that information - nor the make, nor even the fact that they were always Radials. So short of somebody coming up with another "official" Porsche &/or VW internal or spec. manual, there is no other "official" documentation to either controvert nor substantiate this marketing brochure's fitment spec.

I also have the Factory Tech Specs Book 1st Ed. dated 5/1/74 (xerox copy from AA - if anyone is interested), which lists the tire sizes/ratings as noted above - including the 165SR15 "optional upgrade" on 4.5x15 wheels for the 1.7L models. However, it is silent as to tube or tubeless, radial vs. bias ply, etc.

1972 MY owners: FYI - I also have an old xerox of the MT 5/72 Road Test Article on all 4 then available 72MY 911 (T, E, S) & 914 (1.7L) Porsches, which lists 155SR15 as the spec for the 914-1.7, but is likewise silent as to tube/tubeless or radial/other design.

As I suggested before - - other owners out there should research their own MYs for the respective sales brochures, road test articles & other specs for their specific MY 914s 1970-72 & 1974-76 to add the same type of documentation for those model years - rather than debating it on an unsupported basis. Pat has provided his first hand knowledge on his 1972, & I on at least the early-1973 914s up to Jan-Feb/73 & to the end of the 73MY - unless someone else has documents to the contrary. So - come on guys & gals out there - get busy & research this online!

Meanwhile, I'll wait for your replies with documentation to help the other MY 914 owners out there....

No Jim, the tube or tubeless depended upon the OE tire fitment originally on the particular year & model, as per Pat & my posts above.

I just meant that the 165SR15 was an "Factory Option" upgrade available for 1.7L & 1.8L 914s - on either the stock 4.5x15 &/or "later stock" 5.5x15 steelies, &/or on optional 4-Lug 5.5x15 Steelie, Chromie, Mahle, Pedrini or Fuchs 2L Alloys - as appropriate to the car's MY; which I've read in documents & articles, etc.

The SR speed rating was used on the 1.7 & 1.8 engined models, because they had a lower top speed which fit within the SR's 112 mph "cap", while the 2L's 115 mph spec top speed exceeded that for the SR - & the 118 mph "T" rating was not around back then - so it was spec'd with the 165HR15 with HR's 130 mph "cap" - as shown on my gas tank tire tag pic below:

Click to view attachment


Vredestein offers both a 155SR15 & 165SR15 for 914-1.7s & 1.8s, & a 165HR15 appropriate for the 914-2.0 - & all are in the tubeless "flavor" of radials, which won't be OE fitment for early" 914s spec'd with tube-type tires (Michelin XAS, tube-types are most appropriate for those & your 1972 1.7L).

See these Vredestein pdf spec sheet links:
165SR15 "Sprint+" Tubeless Radials: (1.7/1.8 optional upgrade size/rating)
http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

165HR15 "Classic Sprint" Tubeless Radials: (both 1.7/1.8 base & optional + 2L OE spec sizes/ratings)
http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

Vredestein's overall Classic Tire Specs & Info. Brochure:
http://www.vredestein.com/file_banden/2006...sionID=85063899

As your prior post on the Michelins correctly stated - the XZX & XAS leave something off spec. for the 914-2.0Ls, since the former is the wrong SR speed rating but is tubeless, while the latter is the proper 165HR15 but is tube-type.

It would seem to be prudent to try to establish Vredestein as a proper period tire manufacturer offering either OE &/or aftermarket tires of tube &/or tubeless design in the appropriate 155SR15, 165SR15 &/or 165HR15 sizes as OE spec'd. for the 914s - and perhaps for some of the various M-Options, 914/6, etc. tire fitments. I'll see if I can query them online for this & will report back any answers from same later.

Given the above specs for the Vredesteins, I think that maybe even Pat Garvey could accede to them being safe & very drivable tires on the 914s, but he may still prefer the handling of the newer & wider low profile 195s, etc.!!

Okay - - I just posted this query at the Vredestein website's contact page below:

http://www.vredestein.com/Contact_Contactformulier.asp

<snipped>
Dear Sirs/Ladies:

I understand that Vredestein has been in the tire business since 1946, but am not sure whether or not they supplied automobile tires during the 1970s, if so - whether supplied here in the USA or only to Europe/non-USA, and whether their period offerings included tires appropriate to the various Porsche/VW-Porsche 914 models produced & sold between 1969-1977.

Can you please verify if Vredestein supplied either OE &/or Aftermarket Tires during the 1970's (OE - 1969-1977) for the Porsche (USA) &/or Porsche/VW (Europe & World) model 914 cars? If so, can uyou please provide documentation on such, and on which sizes & types were available during that period, such as: 155SR15, 165SR15, 165HR15, 175/70VR15, etc.; whether they were tube &/or tubeless, radial &/or other designs; as well as where (e.g.: Europe, USA, etc.) & during which years such were available (if any).

We are trying to establish that Vredestein's current "Sprint+" &/or "Classic Sprint" tires are acceptable current offerings of an acceptable OE &/or period manufacturer of tires for these cars, for the various Porsche concours shows.

Documentation on official Vredestein company letterhead &/or period advertisements, brochures & spec. sheets would be most helpful to 914 owners in this regard - if you can supply such documents with a cover letter.

Thank You.

Sincerely,
Tom Trischler
owner: 1973 Porsche 914-2.0 (USA/Calif.)
<end snip>

We'll have to wait & see if this gets us anywhere!

Okay folks - I'm looking at the following "official" 914 Marketing brochures at Jeff Bownslby's webpage link below:

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Brochures.htm


It would appear from this, that in the USA at least, there was perhaps a CHOICE of tube or tubeless tires on 914s between 1970-1972 MY, per these:

1970 MY Spec. Sheets:
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_70USA1-04.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_70USA2-06.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_70USA3-18.jpg

1971 MY Spec. Sheets:
> These are very hard to read the Specs on this MY. If anyone has a more legible 1971 MY Spec sheet, please post it or a link thereto here!
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_71USA1-14.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_71USA2-06.jpg

1972 MY Spec. Sheets:
- Pat, these appear to Spec tubeless for 1972 MY? ...could yours have been tubeless due to the chrome wheels which you got??
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_72USA1-02.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_72USA2-12.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...Bro_72C1-04.jpg

1973 MY Spec. Sheets:
as I had previously posted those links/pages above
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_73USA1-04.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_73USA2-12.jpg

1974 MY Spec. Sheets:
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_74USA1-04.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_74USA2-21.JPG
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_74USA2-22.JPG

1975 MY Spec. Sheets:
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_75USA1-04.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_75USA2-21.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_75USA2-22.jpg

1976 MY Spec. Sheets:
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_76USA1-04.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_76USA2-20.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_76USA2-21.jpg


Based upon the above specs for USA 914s, it would appear that the "stock" or "base level" tire & wheel fitment for the 1970-76 914s were as follows:

1970:
1.7L --- 4.5Jx15 Steel Wheels with 155SR15 Tubeless Tires
914/6 - 5.5Jx15 Steel Wheels with 165HR15 Tires with Tubes
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost on both the 1.7 & 6

1971: - this one is hardly legible, but appears to be the same as the prior 1970 MY's Specs??
1.7L --- 4.5Jx15 Steel Wheels with 155SR15 Tubeless Tires
914/6 - 5.5Jx15 Steel Wheels with 165HR15 Tires with Tubes
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost on both the 1.7 & 6

1972:
1.7L - 4.5Jx15 Steel Wheels with 155SR15 Tubeless Tires
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost

1973:
1.7L - 4.5Jx15 Steel Wheels with 155SR15 Tubeless Tires
2.0L - 5.5Jx15 Special (Fuchs 2L Style) Forged Light Alloy Wheels*
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost on the 1.7 & standard on the 2.0
* Note that 1973 MY was the only one where the Fuchs 2L Alloys, as a part of the Appearance Group & Performance Group Option Sets, all of which were included in that MY's 2L base price as "standard" or "included" options - per the following brochure page links. Starting in the 1974 to 1976 MYs, these were part or all made "options at additional cost," as noted in each year's brochure specs. &/or text.
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_73USA1-03.jpg
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_73USA2-11.jpg

1974:
1.8L - 5.5Jx15 Special (Mag-Look) Steel Wheels with 165SR15 Tubeless Tires
2.0L - 5.5Jx15 Special (Mag-Look) Steel Wheels with 165HR15 Tubeless Tires
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost on both the 1.8 & 2.0

1975:
1.8L - 5.5Jx15 Special (Mag-Look) Steel Wheels with 165SR15 Tubeless Tires
2.0L - 5.5Jx15 Special (Mag-Look) Steel Wheels with 165HR15 Tubeless Tires
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost on both the 1.8 & 2.0

1976:
2.0L - 5.5Jx15 Special (Mag-Look) Steel Wheels with 165HR15 Tubeless Tires
...........Alloys were an option at extra cost on the 2.0


NOTE: For those who had a different fitment from the above & at these Porsche+Audi sales brochures' info., of the standard/base level wheels &/or tires on your 914s when new, was either the result of: a particular option of wheels &/or tires fitted to the car, Factory substitutions based upon tire availability at the time of production of your particular car, &/or due to the dealer shenanigans in swapping &/or outright stealing of the proper wheels/tires for the car, etc.

As I understand how PCA et al look at the "proper wheel & tire fitment" for a particular car, it should conform to either the above standard/base level fitments - unless the Munroney Window Sticker, Dealer Bill of Sale, COA &/or other documentation can prove otherwise, in which case that is the proper wheel/tire fitment under the CW rules.
-- Please correct me if I'm wrong Pat & other CWs!


Again - the sales brochures & marketing documents at this web link below are EXCELLENT resources for the OE fitment & period/MY options & accessories available for the 1970-76 914s!!!! Look at them if you haven't already!


Disbelieve if you wish - but look at these & other "official" documentation before you challenge these authentic PORSCHE+AUDI documents - & NO MORE "shooting of the messenger" PLEEZ!!

So now the rest of you 1970-72 & 1974-76 MY 914 owners can do the more detailed research, since I've given you a start here!

So, it appears an early 4 (MY '70) had 4.5"J wheels with 155SR tubeless tires as my 5/70 production car does. And sixes had H tires with tubes.
I again argue that for any four the Michelin XZX tubeless 165SR is the best and closest option (no 155 available in Michelin XZX). And for cars with 5.5" factory wheels the 165 was correct.

The first optional alloys were 5.5 Pedrinis on the four, for sure available on '71 model year cars. Don't think they existed for '70 and I know they didn't in June '70 when I bought a car and had dealer installed chrome wheels. If factory chrome or alloy had been available I would have ordered them. Rivieras were the first alloy's to be seen on the earliest 914's.

Jim, I agree - unless Vredestein comes back with good news on their 1970s tire production series - in which case they can hit dead-on for each of the 914/4 & 6 tires listed in the spec'd tubeless flavor, & do so at far less cost.

Of course the XZXs can do so too for the 1.7Ls & 1.8Ls -but not for the 2.0Ls out there. I had/have some 1983 era Kleber V10s in the wrong speed rating of 165SR15, because they didn't have an HR back then either, & Michelins, Dunlops, etc. were only available by then in VERY pricey 165VR15 at the time!!!!

The Vredestein 165HR15 tubeless is the only correct configuration for the 2Ls, while Michelin offers the proper size/rating 165HR15 in tube-type - which may offer mounting/tube-pinching problems as I've noted before, as well as tubes being incorrect configuration for the 2Ls. Ergo - it is an unfair lose-lose proposition for us with the 2Ls, unless Vredestein can be proven as an available 1970's tire in that size/rating/type.

Maybe Vredestein will come back with good news for everybody's sake!?

So..........the search goes on for me as a 2L owner/restorer!

As for the 70MY Alloys - you might also check around online, because I seem to recall from somewhere (sorry - no links for this at a hand), that the 4-Lug Pedrini's were available at some point for that first 1970MY, although it could've been only in limited numbers & areas? The early 914/4s looked really sharp with them on, but I don't know how the CW judging works if the wheel was available but is not on your COA/Sticker/BoS or something????

Maybe check around at the sub-headings of Bowlsby's site to see if it's referenced there? see: http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/

Pedrinis on a two-owner '71 with 20 year old Michelin 165's. I bought it in '02 and drove it from Chicago to Portland, OR. The seller had two of the tires dismounted and "inspected" at a tire shop. Risky trip as I think back on it, snow in Wyoming and 80 mph across Nebraska, but I made it ok. When I sold it a year later the buyer (a senior woman!) flew to Portland and drove it to Maine on the same tires with no tire problems. She might have been Irish!
Click to view attachment

OK......

All this talk about Vredestiens bothers me (but that's just me). I can't swear to Canada or the rest od the world, but I have NEVER seen a Vredestein tire mounted to (as orginal) a US 914. Never!

Now, I'm not 100% perfect in all of my recollections, but I'm pretty good.

So....someone show me a window sticker of a US 914 with these tires. All it takes is one & I'll believe, but it must be a US delivery 914.

Show me!
Pat

I don't think anyone is contending Vredesteins were OE on a 914. But possibly they were available in the '70's and "might" pass as acceptable in a judging. Again, I think the Michelin XZX would do better, especially on a four which came with S rated tires. And it would be the best available on a 2.0 which came with H's. It seems definite that the "perfect" OE tire is NLA.

Tom:

Great work on organizing the above material, however I still challenge the "authentication" of the marketing material. They are just that "marketing material". (I guess my poor impression of marketing people is showing. They'll tell you anything to get you to buy something. <grin>).

I agree that every CW entrant should do research on their specific car and assemble any data possible to sustain their position on the originality, as well as ownership and maintenance records, into a presentable book should the time come where such info is necessary to prove to a judge a particular point. I have one primarily to show the few differences between a US spec and my Euro spec 914-6 (and it has helped).

Overall, however, I think your missing the point. I think that it would be asking a bit much to expect judges to know the specific tyre manufacturer (yet alone whether it should be tube-type or tubeless) of a particular model year 914. Knowledge of the correct wheel type/size and tyre profile/size would be expected at a top notch judging. We should be so lucky to get judges that have that knowledge.

Just for giggles, look at the factory parts and workshop manuals. They provide a complete list of wheels available (sorry, no chromies for the 4 cyl 914, wish they did as they look great), and tyre sizes recommended.

No, I'm not "shooting of the messenger". Just trying to bug the moderator with the length of this discussion. <grin>

EDITED - DELETE

NO SUCH THING - every Munroney Window Sticker which I've erver seen, at best - only gives the tire size/rating - period!

What about 1969-77 USA ads for Vredesteins of the proper tires from period publications??? ...would that "CW qualify" them for judging??

So Pat - for my indubitably un-CW knowledge (still learning here) - then the CW show judges would still ding the 914-2.0s for Vredesteins (at least at the higher level shows) - even if they were available outside of the USA? ...& even if they were available aftermarket but NOT an OE tire for US 914s??

Heck - if I could safely use a correct size/rating Michelin XAS 165HR15 (or tbd Pirelli in that size) with or without tubes - & not be CW judging dinged - then I MIGHT be willing to pop the extra $1600+ over the $550 Vredesteins - since I'd need all 5 tires new. However, if I'm getting dinged either way, then I'd opt for the 165HR15 Vredesteins!

Since I DO plan to take her on the open road at least some, & I have had 'er over the 112mph SR max (but will deny it if pressed by the law! )! ...so I'd really like to have the proper size/rated tires on there - regardless of maker!

BTW - as the projected costs repairing & restoring my early-73 914-2.0/"914S" has mounted, I'm looking to try to restore to a CW quality to match that cost & retain value better - although I may never show for more than just fun, but someone more anal than I may want to do so in the future!?

However - I have to find & buy both the 5 "missing" Fuchs 2L Alloys from mine, plus 5 tires -- & I find it hard to justify $1200+ for restored wheels & $2400+ for 5 Michelins/Pirellis with tubes/etc. - i.e.: $3600-4000+ for wheels & tires alone - if they're still NOT correct CW!

In that case for me, I'd either go with the OE size/rating/tubeless 165HR15 tubeless Vredesteins (sorry Pat), or else an upgraded size HR or VR in the 185/70x15 or 195/65x15 offering the min. available speedo/odo error (0.8% & 1.6% respectively) from another current tire maker as "modern tires" per Pat & some others here (sorry other CW hardliners)!

Otherwise, it's just self-punishment & self-flagellation (in both senses!) to spend 4x the cost for an incorrect tire!

Frankly - as a logical person (I think ) - I do not see the problem with Vredestein or any other manufacturer which might have been around then, who decides to mfgr repro tires today with the necessary DOT approval!?

When there is no "perfect solution" - then you make Lemonaid & do the best you can. ...or make a "Shandy"!

Thanx!

I just meant the marketing brochures as a starting point, & another alternative document which at least shows that tubeless in all of the various 914/4 sizes were available - if not the intended base-spec. tires/wheel combos. I think that those could be used to justify a particular tire/wheel for judges/challenges. ...or should be - but then we know haw PCA is on "should-be's"!

As for tube vs. tubeless - I still have to question whether tube can be used at all on the proper fitment Fuchs 2L Alloys - period - because that's what I've always been told "back in the day" & have read recently!? Does anyone out there have verified info on this fact????

I still need to order the factory parts/service manuals on CD from AA. Maybe you could post those sizes/types/combos here from the manuals for everybody else, in order to add to this ever expanding "body of knowledge ( ?)"???

As to the length - Pat's opening post was started to consolidate the discussion here, so it now goes on & on!!!! ...maybe he got more than he bargained for!?

OK - I think I saw what you're talking about above, when I looked at the local PCA Zone 8 Concours Rules from 2009, which I suspect are similar for the other zones as well. Specifically, they say: "Judging shall be based on preparation and maintenance, not on originality or deviations from stock. Personalization or modification of the vehicle is not penalized if it is done in a competent and professional manner."

I've added the bold for emphasis, & if this is a general PCA rule for judging, then what truly is the big deal on any of this for the Full, Street, Restoration (?), & other classes - except for the "Preservation Class" where everything has to be as original as possible???

If that is the national rule as well, then is it just the big regional, zone or national championships where PCA judges exert other rules &/or higher standards than indicated by the above???

Sorry to be so ignorant on this, but I've never been involved in PCA nor other car clubs & shows myself, but have gone & at many!

BTW - I was also encouraged, when I noticed that PCA Zone 8/Orange Coast offers a "Wash & Shine" div. to get your toe wet; & a "Street" div. if a 'slightly less-anal 914-nut' such as myself want to go the step further; & that the local & lower level PCA shows "...are open to any person..." - which I assume means non-PCA members to try it out (great idea for recruiting skeptics like me - btw)!

So that, plus the idea that I can "personalize" my 914 a bit in good taste - has me a happy camper!

Aside from getting a set of good tires of my choice which are a proper size, speed rating, tube/tubeless per what fits/works properly on those Fuchs 2Ls, which I still need to find....

....then, how about some "tasteful" hand-pinstripes along the fender lines!!??

...or is that going too far afield for the typical judges????

I would not expect you to be dinged with either the Vredesteins or Michelin XAS in 165HR15 size. Anything else might result in a deduction.

Speciality tire producers such as Coker Tire make a living on buying the reproduction rights as they see a nitch market. Time between runs are determined by demand I suspect.

Complete PCA Parade judging classifications and score sheets for all the classes can be downloaded from the PCA.ORG site.

PCA Zone 8's "Wash& Shine" and "Street" divisions sound like other Zone's concour offerings in attempt to encourage everyone to become anal as one wants to be about this stuff. The national level is another level up (perhaps a bigger jump than the "Wash & Shine" to "Street" mind you.).

Just think, once you've moved into the national Concour judged events, you be at the top of the anal world and with the likes of Pat Garvey. <grin>

EDITED - DELETE

Oh crap, here we go again!

I'll not fault Coker for what they do, and they do it well.

BUT! (get that - full caps). Vredesteins were not available on US 914's in 74 (maybe never for the US market). So...what you will have is a 914 that will get dinged badly at PCA Parade levels. Yeah, James get's away with his tires because he has a euro car.

XAS's (tube type) are the only way to go if you don't want to give away 3 points. Vredesteins, in my book (since they were never original to US 914's) will cost you the same loss.

So, why not (and I know I'm a heretic here) put something on your 914 that is safe, and contemporary. And, something that fills the wheel wells (I said I was being a heretic), handles great & is safe.

Your choice, but I know what I've picked out for my 72. Don'y ask, beacause I won't tell.

Seriously, if I were to try for a third win at Parade level, I'd squander the two grand for inferior tires/tubes/moumting/balancing. Then, I'd come home & sell them, and take my losses.

But, that's just me. "I don need no stinkin trophis no more".
Pat

I'm leaning toward the 185/70VR15 Michelin XAS or XWX, because they're tubeless, were part of the 914's available options & fit the Porsche's own recco's for alternative tires for the 914s from 1992 (although they also recco 195/65HR-VR15), but have the smallest speedo/odo error of 0.8% (1/2 that of 195/65's) & will still handle a bit better than the stock 165HR15s. Of course they're still considered special production vintage tires and expensive as all get out!

According to the 914 SIG webpage on 914 optional eqpt., a similar size was available from Porsche under the M471 option package, as follows:
"914/6 GT Equipment-Steel flares, 6Jx15 Alloy wheels with 185/75VR15 tires, 5.5Jx15 Alloy wheels with 165HR15 tires, 66mm wheel bolts, 21mm wheel spacers front and rear"

....yes, I know, that's for the 914/6 GT - not the 914/4's......but still?
I'll bet there's someone out there who ordered 185s on a 2L at some point!?

Is that what you were thinking Pat???? ...or were you going full-tilt 195/65VR15 Ultra High Performance tires???
Why all the secrecy?

Here's the Porsche letter re: alt. tire sizes in German (also from 914 SIG website):

Click to view attachment

The letter should be sufficient to convince PCA that a properly rated 195/65 is an acceptable replacement for a NLA tire.

Again. I contend that Porsche never specified a tyre manufacturer, and any tire that meets there specs and are "period" correct will meet the judges approval. 195/65 will likely not.

Anyone here able to translate the letter?

One would think so, but then...

Not being fluent/reader of German, I can't say what it says, other than it references 195x15 & 185x15 sizes as alternates & is on Porsche letterhead. Also the PCA Zone 8 Concours Rules excerpt which I posted above would lead one to believe that such changes & deviations are not to be marked down, unless there's a national rule to the contrary!?

However, numerous others who have shown their 914s & done the PCA Parades have already said that they don't accept those sizes.

EDITED 3-24-12

EDITED - DELETE

As everything posted & everyone here has said, they mounted several brands/makers' tires on both 911s/912s & 914s, etc.

Many here have said that they had Michelins X-- & Continentals as OE, plus the road test articles on the 914s often listed Dunlop SP57s - as have several other original owners here.

I'm not positive if Semperits were also in that OE crowd as well, but I think so because of my "early" spare (Semperit M166) & other original owner 914ers whom I've known who've claimed so (although these could've been dealer switches, same as the missing alloys were).

And then there were the plethora of other available tires of the 1970s - many available in the OE sizes/ratings - to which people switched for the "next set(s) of tires" - including Semperits (tire tests of that era rated better or equal to the OEs above), Pirellis, Coopers, etc.!

FYI All Y'all (that's plural for Y'all - ya know!?)

Here's a cut-n-paste of what I've heard back from Vredestein by email, & my request for additional clarification on their period production of aftermarket tires, & am still awaiting a response.

As generally anticipated, they were not OE tire suppliers according to the writer.

<snipped>
Dear Ms. Walters,

Thank you for the clarification regarding the Vredestein tires not being OE on the Porsche 914s of 1969-1977 era. Frankly I thought that was a long shot, and probably only applicable in European delivery cars - if at all.

However, another aspect to my question was whether or not Vredestein produced aftermarket sports car tires during that 1970's period - in any of the 155SR15, 165SR15, 165HR15, 185/70VR15 &/or other appropriate sizes, as either tube &/or tubeless types - which could have been found on the Porsche 914s as aftermarket replacements? If so, then please specify what was available during the 1970s and where they were offered geographically.

As you noted, for many vehicles the actual OE tires are not offered in the exact specified fitment by the OE suppliers at this time. This is especially true for the 1973-76 model year Porsche 914-2.0 vehicles for USA delivery (denoted as "VW-Porsche" outside of the USA), which had specified the 165HR15 Tubeless Radial Tires - often in the Dunlop SP 57, as well as in various iterations of Michelin, Continental and perhaps Semperit, Cooper and other OE suppliers. None of these today offers that specific proper size and speed rating in a tubeless tire, although Michelin does offer an XAS tube-type 165HR15, but I understand that tube-type tires cannot be used on the proper OE 4-Lug Fuchs 2.0 Forged Light Alloy Wheels, as well as for other wheels designed for the tubeless tires. Ergo, for my case, Vredestein's "Classic Sprint" is currently the only offering in that proper OE specified size/rating/tubeless tire available, to my knowledge based upon research to date.

Thank you in advance for this additional information.

Sincerely,
Tom Trischler
1973 Porsche 914-2.0 owner
Orange, Calif., USA
///////


-----Original Message-----
From: "Wolters R."
Sent: Jun 17, 2009 5:34 PM
To: catrischler@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: Algemeen contact formulier



Hello Mr Trischler,

Although we presently supply the Sprint Classic in several dimensions that are suitable for fitment on a VW-Porsche to my knowledge we have never supplied these tires as OE fitment. When it comes to getting vehicles in concours condition where by it is necessarry to have OE tires fitted to the vehicle, we are sorry to have to disappoint you. Having said that, we doubt that very many of the OE type tires are still on the market today.
As you mention we do have the Sprint Classsic and Sprint + available in several of the dimensions that you mention, and they are an excellent alternative for OE tires as they assentially are a modern tire in a period look, built on modern machines with very small tolerances.
Thank you very much for your interest in our tires
Sincerely

René Wolters

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Ligtenberg M. Namens Info Vredestein
Verzonden: maandag 15 juni 2009 2:45
Aan: Customer US
Onderwerp: FW: Algemeen contact formulier



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: catrischler@earthlink.net [mailto:catrischler@earthlink.net]
Verzonden: zondag 14 juni 2009 0:07
Aan: Info Vredestein
Onderwerp: Algemeen contact formulier


Algemeen contact formulier
Naam/Name: Mr. Tom Trischler
Email/E-mail address: catrischler@earthlink.net
Adres/Address: 703 N. Shaffer St.
Postcode/Postal code: 92867
Plaats/City: Orange, CA
Land/Country: USA
Telefoon/Telephone: 714-469-6769
Fax/Fax: 714-633-5050
Opmerkingen/Remarks: Dear Sirs/Ladies: I understand that Vredestein has been in the tire business since 1946, but am not sure whether or not they supplied automobile tires during the 1970s, if so - whether supplied here in the USA or only to Europe/non-USA, and whether their period offerings included tires appropriate to the various Porsche/VW-Porsche 914 models produced & sold between 1969-1977. Can you please verify if Vredestein supplied either OE &/or Aftermarket Tires during the 1970's (OE - 1969-1977) for the Porsche (USA) &/or Porsche/VW (Europe & World) model 914 cars? If so, can uyou please provide documentation on such, and on which sizes & types were available during that period, such as: 155SR15, 165SR15, 165HR15, 175/70VR15, etc.; whether they were tube &/or tubeless, radial &/or other designs; as well as where (e.g.: Europe, USA, etc.) & during which years such were available (if any). We are trying to establish that Vredestein's current "Sprint+" &/or "Classic Sprint" tires are acceptable current offerings of an acceptable OE &/or period manufacturer of tires for these cars, for the various Porsche concours shows. Documentation on official Vredestein company letterhead &/or period advertisements, brochures & spec. sheets would be most helpful to 914 owners in this regard - if you can supply such documents with a cover letter. Thank You. Sincerely, Tom Trischler owner: 1973 Porsche 914-2.0 (USA/Calif.)


VREDESTEIN TYRES
13 BRIDGE STREET
METUCHEN N.J. 08840
U.S.A.

T: 732 549 2440
F: 732 549 2450
WoltersR@vredestein.com
http://www.vredestein.com/

The information contained in this message may be confidential and is intended to be exclusively for the addressee. Should you receive this message unintentionally, please do not use the contents herein and notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
<end snip>

After resending my clarification request again this morning, I just received the following clarification for Mr. Wolters at Vredestein Tyres, which indicates that they did produce such tires during the 1970s. for sure in the SR flavor, maybe in HR, but probably not in VR (if I'm interpolating his comments correctly). Hopefully this is of some use to others out there.

If I can figure out a way to transfer his emails with the Vredestein letterhead/logo into a picture file, then I'll post it here later for others' direct print-out & use.

<snipped>
From: "Wolters R." <WoltersR@vredestein.com> [Add to Address Book]
To: Thomas Trischler <catrischler@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: 2nd Request for Clarification on 1970's Tyre Production (RE: Algemeen contact formulier)
Date: Jun 22, 2009 1:25 PM
Attachments: unknown-1 KB


Dear Mr Trischler

During the 70's we had those tire sizes you mention in our program, however to my knowledge these were S rated tires, certainly not V rated. We sold our tires mainly in Europe, however it could be that some of our products found their way to different markets, such as The US or South America. If this was the case thes tires were either sold by our export department (which handles all markets where we do not own subsidiaries), or through third parties.
Either way it is too far in the past to be able to give you exact data.
Sincerely Yours,

Mr René Wolters
<end snip>

What am I missing here?

Either I'm, blind (which is pretty close to the truth), or there's no mention of optional (app group) wheels for the 72's, i.e. 5 1/2 inchers. That mandates a larger tire, such as a 165. I know it means little, but it shows that taking print as literal is not always correct. Or, did I miss it?
Pat

I hereby rest my case! Unless you have a euro 914, Vredesteins are not proper. Shame on any PCA concours judge that rules it so for a US car, but having been one your judging minutes are so stressful that it would be easy to overlook. But, that's also why PCA allows protests.

If your REALLY have to be REALLY perfect (remember, you're only looking at 3 points) go with the XZX's. In ten years you'll be pleading to the gods to have them wear out! They're rubbish. Oh, and I should say that they are nearly 40 year old rubbish.

Sorry to the Uber CW's, but I'll go with safety & performance. Yeah, burn me at the stake!

Hi Pat - those above would only list the so called "stock spec" wheel & tire items for the cars, and in some cases - a few of the available options.

Options are usually discussed in the text pages of the various sales brochures (although to a limited extent), for which I didn't list all brochure pages per year above, cuz I was focusing on the wheels & tires for this discussion - rather than "everything".

However, you can go the the link below & scroll down to 1972 USA brochures & link each page at the numbers in the right columns to read them:
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Brochures.htm

For the options, you'll want to look at these web-pages on Jeff Bowlsby's excellent 914 SIG website - and start with M485 there:
Index of 914 Info. pages: http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/
Options: http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/OpEq.htm

Happy Reading!
Tom
///////

[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:49 PM' post='1184235']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1184108' date='Jun 22 2009, 12:37 PM']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1184043' date='Jun 22 2009, 10:25 AM']
[/quote]
I hereby rest my case! Unless you have a euro 914, Vredesteins are not proper. Shame on any PCA concours judge that rules it so for a US car, but having been one your judging minutes are so stressful that it would be easy to overlook. But, that's also why PCA allows protests.

If your REALLY have to be REALLY perfect (remember, you're only looking at 3 points) go with the XZX's. In ten years you'll be pleading to the gods to have them wear out! They're rubbish. Oh, and I should say that they are nearly 40 year old rubbish.

Sorry to the Uber CW's, but I'll go with safety & performance. Yeah, burn me at the stake!
[/quote]

It still sounds to me for us 914-2L 4s - like you're going to lose 3 pts. - if any, as Pat & others say regarding level of judging & time allowed - ANY WAY YOU GO!

165HR15 Tubless Radial Vredesteins - DING! for not being a USA/OE supplier

165SR15 Michelin XZX Tubeless - DING! for not HR rated

165HR15 Michelin XAS Tube-type - DING! for not Tubeless

185/70VR15 Michelin XWX Tubeless - DING! for being an Optional Upgrade size

185/70VR15 Pirelli CN36 Tube-type - DOUBLE DING! for not Tubeless & not OE

195/65HR-VR15 Anything - DINGUS OFF! for everything - except for that official Porsche letter in German!?
...but they'll probably handle best of all - if not too heavy!

That's it - they're all over at PCA Rules Committees & Judging!

I'm tellin ya! ...it's a "tail-dragger" conspiracy to keep us 914s outta the runnin!!!!