I wonder if George can have a custom gas tank sticker made for me that says 195/65HR15...

Eric,
Paul hit the nail on the head, as did you. Better compound,tread = safety. You're comment about not being nicked for more contemporary tires for the preservation class is a good one (anyone from the PCR Committee listening here?).

But there are a couple of problems from MY perspective:
1. I don't want to trailer my 914, which means I have to DRIVE on the retrospective tires. Further, I'd really like to autocross too. That's out of the question with retro tires. Well, a waste of time & tires anyway.
2. No matter what, I'll put 195/60's on my chromes for street driving (another chucnk of bucks)
3. I currently have mounted on my steelies a 28 year old set of Pirelli CN36's. They have less than 5k miles on them, no tubes, hold air & look great (regardless of what Sir Andy says). I also have a 15 year old set of A008r's on my chromes - best tire I've ever had. Maybe 1000 miles. Also function perfectly. No. Iwouldn't trust either set to make the trip to Charlotte - my point is, I buy tires & never get my money's worth from them. So, why should I invest $1,500 bucks in a set of old tech tires that will be useless in 8-10 years.

As you can tell, I'm having real issues with this aspect. Probably more than anything else. No. definitely more than anything else. Problem is, I want a division win. Had two class wins at Parade, but no division win.

The PCR' have me all tied up in knots. Worst case, I'll foot the bill for tires I don't want & will throw away in 5-8 years. I know he heavies I have to beat, in P & R classes & I'll do what it takes. Just wish it didn't have to cost so much for so little.
Pat

Sounds like you'll be buying at least one set of tires. Purchase the Vredestein's mount them on your steelies, and drive them. $80/tire is about what you would spent on a decent contemporary tire anyways.

And besides, at our age, eye hand coordination preclude our being competitive in an autocross. Oh, and are your ready to shell out a few hundred dollars for a new helmet? <sigh>

Speak for yourself old person (heh, heh)! I have friends that are 70 & still auocross & win consistently. One has a Carrera Speedster & the other a GT3. The one with the GT3 is also a DE instructor.

My eye-hand coordination is still pretty could, though it could use some re-training. And yep, I'd spring for the helmet. I think my current one is something like Snell 1928 approved!
Pat

James, are you saying that the 165HR Vredesteins would be as "correct", or even more "correct", than the Michelin XZX 165SR's, and $48 per cheaper?

While I say I was happy with the Kuhmo's on the 911 with 4.5" wheels, I had them mostly for the vintage look and low price and I never drove the car hard. I felt a wider low profile tire on 4.5's would be too "pinched".

Yes, as your manual indicates that a H series tire should be used (no?).

Until someone can show me that the manufacturer made specific recommendations on a brand and model of tire for the any early Porsche, I'd consider a tire that meets to the letter the tire size designation to be correct, and even more so if it is "period" correct (available the year that the Porsche was manufactured).

I'm curious to know whether your 912's manual offers the option of both an SR and HR tire in the same size. From what I've seen on other models, the SR is reserved for the narrower 155 tires and the HR for 165's. Step up once more and the 911''s of the period options included 185/70HR's.

My manual, in the technical data section, specifies 165 HR 15 with 5.5Jx15 wheels only. The tire pictured in the "changing a tire" section is clearly a Dunlop "dogbone" but I'm pretty sure other brands were fitted.

The tag in the engine compartment is another matter. It makes no mention of speed rating, even for the 911S.
912/911T&E Standard 165R15, Optional 185R15 or 185R14
911T&E "Comfort" Standard 185R14, Optional 185R15 or 165R15
911S Standard 185R15, Optional 165R15

Pat! I'm surprised at you. All those nailed threads and all this recent talk about tires and no thread! Anyway, here's my submission:

Original Spare from my 1974 1.8 Steelie




The all-important BACK of the wheel





And the tread:


And my previous owner's Jan 2006 tire purchase:


OK, Pat, just kidding, remember you're only the moderator...

Paul

tsk, tsk, tsk!

A man in your position with a stutter!

You had to be there for this folks.

So, what's the consensus - should we nail all tire posts?
Pat

Thanks, Pat, for the posting help.

So, is my spare a Michelin Zx? Seems like there are cars like mine with unused spares. The rubber looks good, could almost put together a set of originals if you could only locate four more!

In keeping with the theme of this forum, perhaps other member's "original size" solutions are best kept here, other tire posts out in the Garage.

Paul

Front and back of the 15" Steelies from 1974 (also available in 75 and 76). Note that the back is some kinda black, almost like an anthracite gray color.


Front


Back


Back closeup

Wonder if it is supposed to be a pure black and my spare may just not have a lot of paint on it?

Paul

Here I go again! Ortho's example is why I think the most "correct" currently available tire for a 914-4 is the Coker Michelin XZX 165SR15.
The first Michelin radials available in the US were the Michelin X. Then Michelin made some changes and called them ZX (same tread pattern). They used both X and ZX on Ortho's tire. Next came the XZX, also same tread pattern. Apparently the sixes and LE's came with H rated tires so they need a different tire to be "pure". However, I think most judges would not know the Michelin SR is not correct.

Best define whether your referring to an early steel (4 1/2") rim or late style (5 1/2") rim. 155SR15 would be correct on '70-'72 narrow steel rims. <grin>

I'm sure you're right.
When I bought my new 914 in 1970 I ordered optional chrome wheels. It had Michelins but I recall that tire brand could have also been Continental or Dunlop, whatever rolled off the boat.They must have been 5.5's because the tires were 165's. Frankly, at the time I had no thought about wheel width/tire sizes. Just wanted chrome wheels on my tangerine Porsche!

The chrome early style wheels were 5 1/2". I've been keeping my eyes out for a decent set for the 914-4, however have not come across any that fit the bill.

James,
Is this what you are looking for? (These were on our esteemed moderators' 914 at the Reston (Va.) Parade in 1979.

Paul

Click to view attachment Those are aftermarket wheels. The dealer (factory?) option chromes I am familiar with looked identical to the painted steel wheels but were 5.5" wide. In fact I am thinking they were VW wheels, not Porsche. But then much of the car was VW wasn't it. Shown is my car in 1970. Sorry about the quality, digital image of a 37 year old photo on my wall!

Did they look anything like these - on the red 914. These were from the dealer in late '72. Brazilian made, like all the others. Availabl from J C Whitney at the time. Yeah, I know, not great to hear, but they were available from Whitney & they were VW.
Pat

Click to view attachment

Above is the wheel in painted steel, except it is 4.5"er.

The "wheels" on the yellow car are closer. Except those look like VW bug trim rings. The chromes I believe to be "factory" have oval holes exactly like the standard steel wheels.

My memory of the first year is that there were no aftermarket wheels for 914's and no option from Porsche except the chromes. The first aftermarket wheels available (by '71 for sure) were the Rivieras which were made for the VW and had a different offset than stock 914 wheels.

Here's the wheel pic:

Click to view attachment

Paul

No, the ones I have been looking for at identical to the early painted steel wheels in appearance, but chomed. They were available in 5 1/2" rim width only. I don't believe that there were any available wheel options in '70. '71 was the first year for the chomes.

Gint's car the zambeziteen had the 5.5 chromies
Click to view attachment
My old Dijon bomb had the 5.5 painted steelies
Click to view attachment

James, my '70 pictured above came from the showroom with the 5.5 chromes, only optional wheel available at the time.
Ferg's green car shows them well.

I stand corrected.

Perhaps a list of known factory and aftermarket wheel options (from when to when they were offered), and known factory OEM tire and "period" available tires might be worthwhile.

Centers - within the hubcap mounts, should be "dusted" dark gray, same as the backside.
Pat

Incontrovertible proof of factory spec'd tires. This, on a 70/4, on the engine compartment firewall, on the drivers' side.

And NO, I'm not gonna put those "rim protecters" back on the car.

[/quote]

Here's the wheel pic:

Click to view attachment

Paul
[/quote]
Centers - within the hubcap mounts, should be "dusted" dark gray, same as the backside.
Pat
[/quote]


You don't see that "dusted" finish reproduced often on refinished wheels.

Paul

Like this?

Yep.........course, if it's covered by the hubcap who's to know?

spare



very clean, no scuffs, etc....looks like it wasnt used much....

I'm finally reading this thread.
One combo you missed was the 165SR15 on 5.5" rims.
In 1973 and 1974 and perhaps 1975 the 1.7 or 1.8 engine cars came with the 165SR15 specification. The 2.0 engine cars came with the 165HR15 specification. One easy way for me to tell the original engine in some of them. I'll try to put together a part number list of rims and descriptions.
We have the 4.5" & 5.5" early steel painted, 5.5" early steel chrome, late styled 5.5" painted, Pedrini, Fuchs and Mahle alloys, Pedrini and Fuchs for the non hub-centric as varieties, and two LE varieties of the Mahles for the 914/4. I'm not sure how many of the early steel wheels were tube type rims; the 'J' designation is for tubeless varieties. I believe everything from at least 1973 MY on had tubeless rims as standard.

Dave,

Is the rim size & style (J designation) stamped anywhere on the wheel (talking steelies here)? My late 72 came originally with tubes & Continentals. The was the only set of tube-type tires I've ever had on the car. All the rest have been tubeless. The current set (28 years old) is Pirelli CN36, and they don't lose more than 1-3 pounds of air per year. Course I am dumping these before any rugged use is put on the car.
Pat

Will be stamped "5 1/2 J 15" on the outside near the bolt holes. Also will have "ET 40" which is the offset.

Jim has it correct. The 'J' for tubeless will always be found in the size designation. If it is not there, then it indicates a tube type version. You can tell this with the tire off the rim when you can look for the safety ribs. The safety ribs are a wide (.5" or so) raised ( about a sixteenth") portion just inside of where the tire bead sits. It is there to prevent the tire beads from moving away from the edge of the rim and thus unseating themselves. Early 5 bolt Fuchs, Gasburner Mahles, and many of the early steel rims were tube type. You can run them tubeless, but there is some risk in doing so; most of the risk comes when cornering briskly and the twisting forces on the bead of the tire can cause it to walk about. If it becomes unseated you could have a dramatic deflation of the tire and consequent loss of control. So you would be most at risk on a track or during autocross and less so on the street. If you should cause an accident due to this scenario, you would likely be liable for damages.

Jeez, I knew that! Just forgot it.

As soon as I posted (instead of before) I checked. Yeppir it's there - J designation.

i had four of these on my 914-4 -71
it is remotec 15*5,5

could someone tell me the original finish for a Pedrini rim?
were they painted? if so, anyone know the color (don't say silver).

"slackin",

The general consensus is that the Pedrinis were finished an anodized s****r.
Those owners that refinished the wheels themselves seem to recommend WURTH s****r.
Please note, I didn't say "s****r"

Paul

my silver comment was to deter the smart-a$$es... but looks like I only egged them on.

anyway, thanks paul for the info. there appears to be several silvers by wurth.
would it be an enamel or laquer? "Wheel paint" or just "metalic silver"?

since painting isn't original, would powdercoating be out of the question?
neither is original and the PC would be more durable. thoughts?


-chris

Chris,
I think you'd get some first-hand accounts and/or better response if you would post your question(s) in the main Originality and History portion of this Forum. I think most members look at these specific threads infrequently, and when they do, I believe for visual reference.

The Wurth paint that I've seen referenced before was laquer.

Paul

Anodized

You don't want to powder-coat rims, that just makes things worse.

Chris,

Please, please have them cleaned up & re-anodized. Preserve them. Restore them. They'll be worth so much more than the cost involved.

And, they weren't anodized silver (there, I said it). Anodizing protects & covers the original "silver" metal finish. Easy to keep clean - just never use abrasives. Should last you until you're as old as I am, maybe more.



Pat

Click to view attachment

Has anyone mentioned steel wheels painted body color?

No.

Probably because we (I should say "I") am/are not aware of any such comination for US cars.

All steel wheels should be painted satin silver, with center lug areas painted flat black.
Pat

Well, I am the second owner of this car and I am 99.9% sure that is how the car was purchased in Bristol, TN, in August of 1973. The original owner was a very good friend of my wife and she is sure they were always orange (Phoenix Red).
That picture was taken in about '83-'84.

Any other historians care to step in here?
Pat

I would venture to say that if that 914 had paint-to-match the bodywork wheels when it was delivered new, the dealer, more than likely, was responsible. When I acquired my '70/4 in 1975, I knew of an Irish Green 914 that had yellow painted steelies. I knew for a fact that the owner had painted them that color (perhaps he really wanted a Lotus ), and back then, I thought it looked pretty neat (that '70s show/Disco era sort of thing). Now if I saw it...

Paul

Is the spare Red???

Ferg

btw. just for the record, ET stands for the german word "Einpresstiefe" which losely translates into offset ...
Andy