It ocurs to me that we've forgotten the various combination of wheel offered by the factory for 914's.

I see to recollect (VERY dangerous) that there were:

Steel - four versions (maybe 5)

Alloy - five versions

I know there were different widths available in some, but I'm talking about design.

I'll start - these are 5 1/2J steel wheels from an early car with appearance group. Yes, they've been rstored & no, they do not have the proper flat black center spray around the lugs.

Pat

5 1/2" x 15" 10-spoke MAHLE "gasburner" wheels, optional on 914-6's in 1970.

And what they look like on the car.

BTW, for CW's, even though I got the crests to line up vertically, I was dinged for not having the correct tire size at the Portland Parade. Ouch. New XAS's of the correct size are going on shortly.

An early 5.5 x 15 Pedrinni

Pat,
Iffen those be the jackstands you plan to use that show in your initial pic.....GET NEW ONES!

100%!!

15"x5.5" 4 bolt Creamsicle Mahle.

Paulie - what's the prob with the jackstand? I don't get it???!!!
Pat

Are you getting them from Cocker?

Happy to hear from you & hope you're better!!!

Pat

Pat- that is the exact stlye of Jackstand that just failed on Gint. His 914 broke his nose & practically crushed his face. I never had a problem w/ them either but after reading the thread his wife wrote on what happened to him I'm getting rid of mine & using pinned tripods only.

I' wichha Johnny!

Going shopping tomorrow for new stands, even though the ones I use have never created a problem.

Nothing wrong with better technology!
Pat

Coker Tire complete with inner tubes. $$$ouch. Now all I need to do is find someone with a tire changer who will be gentle with the wheels.

I'm still in recovery from the last surgery. I'm able to go to my office, however after 5-6 hours I run out of steam. Foolishly I tried inspect the front end of the 6 last week. Got down just fine (funny how gravity works that way). Took me 10 minutes to crawl to my bench to pull myself backup.

James, it's a start! I know how the gravity thing works too - bad knees & hips & getting worse every year. Keep your spirits up bud - you be OK.

As to the Coker thing - I need to do the same thing. PM me with the cost they quoted you please - I know they're expensive, but they ARE new tires & period correct. I know it won't do you any good in Maine, but there are more & more tire shops with equipment that don't damage the wheels. I just found out about one 10 miles from me that doesn't even touch them. Check around your area. Bet there's a similar place.
Pat

What? No one has Fuchs alloys?

I do but they're not original 914, more like original 944 .

No deals, straight $191 per tire plus $24.95 for the inner tube. They had a good price on Vredestein Sprint's ($89/per) which recall seeing on several 914's back in the early '70's. I opted for the XAS's having the original mounted spare.

Coker tire web: www.store.coker.com

(BTW, I scored a set of year old XAS's, (new, with original shipping labels and shiiping straps as received by the eBay seller from Coker) off eBay at half the price. Still had to by the inner tubes though. Damn, they are skinny.)

Four bolt fuchs. Black backgrounds are not original. - 5.5 x 15


Pedrini - 5.5 x 15


Mahel - 5.5 x 15

Thanks McMark - burgers on me!

Finally a Fuchs, though that black stuff needs to come off!

What about wheels from the sixers?!
Pat

More wheels:

Click to view attachment
These are the fuchs that came on the 914/6. These are 14 x 5.5". The pictures is on a 912, but the wheels are identical.

Click to view attachment
This is the original finish on four bolt fuchs. Again, 15 x 5.5".

Click to view attachment
This is a bad picture of the other style of steel wheel. Again, 15 x 5.5"

The list of original wheels, according to the PET are:

914/6 - steel, fuchs, mahles
914 - steel early/hubcap, steel late, fuchs, pedrini, mahle

heres mine...

here are mine after hand polishing

Dan, those are gorgeous! Question, though. Assuming you've polished off the anodizing, how frequently do you think repolishing will be necessary? This is NOT a slam BTW, I'm just curious.
Pat

I polished the spokes on mine and they only require touch up about once a year. Probably less than an hour to do them all.

In reference to the 4 bolt fuchs, I notice that in most that I look at there are either no center caps (missing), or a cheap looking plain (plastic chrome?) cap on them. Are the Porsche crest caps that you use on the 911 fuchs also interchangeable to this 4 bolt style or does it require a different type center cap. I'm still new to 914s and learning something new every day.

The center caps used on 5 bolt Fuchs alloys are not interchangable with those with the 4 bolt fitment. And yes, it does seem that most of the time that they are shown, those metal center caps seem to be dented. Those of us who have a set of perfect center caps guard them closely

Thanks for the info.. Are there any Porsche Crest center caps available aftermarket that you know of from one of the vendors out there?

I think Perf Products has/had some that are stick on. Don't know if they still do, or how long they last. May give them a try, though.

Thanks for the lead Pat...I just found a Performance product catalog and I checked online. Yes, they do have the crest caps...For $74.95 each! Good news is that they are on sale now, so a set will only cost a little over $250.00 plus tax. I guess this is what the market is on these things.

GULP! Hope you want them badly!

Ok, we have several threads going that have been hijacked to "We Be Tires for CW's". Let's start fresh here, so it's all in one place.

Here's the gist! Many of us want appropriate tires for our CW 914's. To do so, requires a HUGE outlay for tires that were designed 35 or more years ago. Yeah, they're available, but the price can be outrageous (IS outrageous, in my estimation).

So what can we do about it?

Let's rehash the side threads here, so all can see easilly.

As I see it, the primary questions are:

1. Are vintage tires available? And I'm talking about original sizes. Where? How much? What are the advantages/disadvantages of these tires?
2. Are contemporary tires available in vintage sizes? Same questions as in #1.
3. Who's doing what about this situation? Are you caving to current tires, etc.? Why/why not?
4. Are the concours advantages to remanufactured vintage-sized tires worth worth the cost, from a performance/safety point of view versus maintaing purity?
Pat

First thing is to establish what constitutes the original tire provided by Porsche. From what I can find:

914-4's came with either 4 1/2" J x 15 with 155SR15 tires
or 5 1/2" J x 15 with 165HR15 tires
914-6's came with 5 1/2" J x 15 with 165HR15 tires
or 5 1/2" J x 14 with 185HR14 tires

The combination of of rim size and tire offering appears to be independent of whether it is a steel wheel or alloy.

I know Michelin ZX (155SR15), XAS (165HR15) and XWX (185HR14) appeared on delivered cars in the US. I can recall both a Dunlop and Continental tire also appearing but for the life of me I cannot recall the model name that they offered.

My point is, nowhere can I find mention of the tire brand provided, either is spec books or advertisements.

Vredstein Sprint was a favorite during the '70's as a replacement tire. Uniroyal, Firestone, BF Goodrich and Goodyear all had matching tire sizes.

Both XAS (165HR15) and Vredstein (155SR15 and 165HR15) are available from Coker Tire at $191, $79 and $89 respectively.

Having run several lower profile "contemporary" tires, and currently the XAS's, only disadvantage I have found is the "skinny" vs. "wide" appearance. On the plus side, with the XAS's, my speedometer finally is correct, and the ride is less harsh. If I were autox'ing, I'd want the lower profile for sure. Cost of the XAS is high compared to the majority of contemporary tires running around $85-$90.

There are other tires of the period that would fit, however they do not have the correct speed rating.

Contenporary tires I've found that match include BFGoodrich Radial TA (155SR15) at $62.

I opted to go the XAS route as my spare wheel has the original 165HR15 XAS on it and I am not likely to campaign my 914-6 is any autocrosses. That and an eBay deal that I could not refuse (seller purchased the Coker Tires and must have decided that they were to "skinny" for his liking.)

From a performance and safety point of view, I don't see any problem with using the Coker Tires, as it is my understanding that the tires are today's construction techniques with the original molds used for tread and sidewalls. The HR speed rating is certainly adequate for my needs.

How far you go in respect to obtaining a Concours advantage is open to question. If I hadn't had the original spare, I most likely would have opted for the Vredstein to save some cash.

If I had a VERY prepared car underside, I might have opted for the contemporary tires, and acknowledge that I may receive a demerit or point reduction during a Concours judging.

Knowing what class your going to be entered in may also enter into your decision on which way to go. Only in the Preservation Class would I think it necessary to have the original tire size of whatever brand that is available.

If James is correct in his post above it would seem the Vredestein would be the appropriate tire for me @ Concours. They have a 165HR15 & would appear to be period correct.

James, you are aware though that the Michelin XAS is a tubed tire & will not fit onto a Mahle or a Fuchs? The only tubeless Michelin available is the XZX, @ $131.00/per (Coker), & SR rated. Also, my Kardex says I have to have HR tires so there is documentation that says what tires the car came w/ besides the tank sticker. To preserve a car properly would involve not only the right size but the right rating.

I've chosen to go w/ the OEM gambit- "Dunlop SP 57" 165HR15 was my original tire. "Dunlop SP Sport A2+" 195/65HR15 is what she'll have in Charolette. Both are HR rated & both are the "SP" model from Dunlop. I am planning on bringing my Kardex, Bill of Sale & COA to Charolette, as required? Should I bring my old "SP57" as well?

I would also presume from James's posting that the Kuhmo 165/80HR15 available from "The Tire Rack" @ $32.00/per is the best choice for every CW except those in preservation, because Kuhmo was not around in 1976.


BTW- sick as a dog... summertime flu has got me again. I can go outside in shorts & a T shirt in winter & not get sick. In & out of AC into the Southern heat is murder on my body.

I'm awaiting additional responses. But, at this point I'm thinking I won't go original spec.

Why? Because by late fall of this year or next spring my 914 will be driveable to my expectations. That means that all mechanical parts (including the calipers) will be in "as new" condition. Other than the brakes, things will only be refurbished - not rebuilt. From 2008 on, I plan on using my 914 as it was used in the eraly years. I'll drive it to work, I'll drive it to restaurants - I'll use it. It'll still be a CW car, but it's going to be used in good weather - no more garge queen! Life's too short & I've made my decision.

So, I'm about to cave on tires. Though I'll probably get some decent street tires for my chromes, I'll still need some CW tires for the steelies.

Someone tell me more about the Kumho's, because I think size will win over "name" at Charlotte.
Pat

Pat- here is the link to the Kuhmos on The Tire Rack. I have Kuhmos on my truck & love them. These are TR rated, not SR or HR but @ $32.00/per I would think they're worth it. Rather suspicious that they're on backorder, no?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...yes&place=0

I once put the Kuhmos on a 66 911 with stock 4.5" chromes and they were fine in both appearance and handling.
James, I recall new 914's (four only) coming with the S rated Michelin ZX. Could be wrong, but wondering if the H tire was a "six" thing or LE thing.

Al,

Know what scares me? Two things:

1. Haven't bought 914 tires in 28 years ( think about it - where were you when I bought my last set)
2. Tthough I know of the brand, know nothing about the quality.
3. Will they be accepted, regardless of proper sizing by concours judges?
4. They are just way too cheap - why?
Pat

Pat- 28 yrs ago I was 16, in high school & Pop had replaced 4 of the 5 Dunlops w/ Avanti tires . Kuhmo is a new guy on the block regarding tires so they're trying to undercut everyone's prices. I have "Kuhmo Ecsta AST's" on the truck & they rock, honestly. Wearing well, good grip & because of the size (245/50HR16) transfer most of my available power to the road. I have no idea if Kuhmos would be accepted in Preservation but see no reason at all why they would not be accepted in all the other divisions.

Yes, I am aware that XAS are tube type (a pain to balance and more $$). My Mahle's (5 bolt) accept them without any problems. I've not found any restrictions to tubetype tires and Mahles/Fuchs anywhere.

As I theorize, to be period correct, the tire must have the correct size (width and profile, and speed rating. In my case the ZXZ would not meet the speed rating.

The use of 195/65HR15 in my opinion would not meet the original spec as the width and profile is different than the 165HR15 that your sticker indicates. I'm not sure what good bringing an old "SP57" when you have newer profile "A2's" mounted, other than pointing out that you have different tires. <grin>

I have a set of Concours Fuchs (5 1/2" x 14) with low profile tyres on them for a similar purpose (the Mahle's intended for show and the Fuch's for go). Unfortunately, I find it a pain to swap them over, and the Mahle's are on most of the time.

Early steel wheels on the 914-4 were 4 1/2"x15" shod with 155SR15 tyres. Late style steel wheels were 5 1/2"x15" with 165HR tyres. The optional alloys (when offered) were 5 1/2"x15" with 165HR's.

All 914-6 (other than the M optioned) were 5 1/2"x15" steel with 165HR or 5 1/2"x15" alloy with 165HR and 5 1/2"x14" alloy with 185HR15 tyres. The M otion I believe were all shipped with 6" wide Fuchs and had 185/70 series tyres (XWX?). At least as far as I can tell (reviewing the few Owner's manuals I have, tyre literature I've stashed, and the factory manual). Perhaps someone could confirm my findings.

Vredestein would be a correct chose. I also recall that many hotshoes raved about them at autox's back then. I suspect it had more todo with the rubber compound than tread design.

Your assumption about the Kuhmo's is not quite right. As it has been pointed out, the tire is a TR rated not HR. TR's were not offered during the production period.

They shouldn't be, however as you know, it really dependents on how knowledgeable the judge is in such things on 914's.

I won't say a thing about anything incorrect on your car to the judges, however I will bring to their attention special items (such as correct tires) on mine. <grin>

Shell out the added $$ Pat and get the period correct tire for the Concours wheels. It will likely be a one time purchase....

One more time James: (my need is for a '69 912 but don't hold that against me) It sounds like the two closest to OE choices in 2007 for a car originally equipped with 165HR 15 tires (my owners manual shows pics of the Dunlop "dogbone", which I guess is the SP57) are the Vredestein at $89 from Coker or the Michelin XAS at $191 + tube. Is that correct?

Those are the only two that I've come across so far.

Did the 912 come with a 4 1/2" or 5 1/2" wheel? The reason I ask is I mounted a set of 165HR15's on my 914-4, and it was squirelly. Felt like the sidewalls were rolling under when ever I made a turn at any speed.

BTW, I'd never hold your owning a '69 912 against you. If I had the $$$ and could locate one, a '69 912 would be at the top of my list.

'69 was 5.5 as was '68; 66 & 7 were 4.5
As I mentioned, I had the super cheap Kuhmo 165's on a 66 911 with 4.5's and it was fine. However, I tend to drive my old cars pretty gingerly. Still not sure what I will do with the 912. I was holding my nose and preparing to spend on the Michelin xzx's but after all the discussion here I may just go with a 195/65. I have this thing about originality which is why I am returning to chrome wheels and hub caps rather than the Fuchs which are now on the car. I thought I should go all the way and get 165's. Maybe the Vredestein 165HR's, $192 less than the Michelins.
My car will never enter a true concours. Maybe an occasional "shine and show" where the judges would be clueless.
I do use the car for local PCA tours and sometimes push it a bit. Maybe the modern 195's, hell, I don't know!

This whole business of perfectly sized, branded and tread patterned tires for a 914 for concours presentation bothers me to some extent.

When the 914 was manufactured, it was produced to a price point (as are virtually all cars except maybe the Bugatti 16.4). The 914 being an entry level car, high performance tires were not in the specification, nor was the tire technology of today available.

The purpose of our cars is to be driven and enjoyed in the manner for which they were designed. With that in mind, in contemporary use, wouldn't you want the best tires that you could afford with the necessary concessions for fitment?

Pat and I have discussed the safety aspects of braking distance variations on current model automobiles and he has expressed the relevance of even mildly shorter braking distances from one make/model to another, Pat's contention being that a 6 foot shorter braking distance from one car to another could mean the difference between having an accident or avoiding one.

With the above stated, therefore, on your way to Parade 2008, or perhaps a 914 World event, or perhaps just driving to work, if some mindless, self-aborbed doofus vaguely aware of driving her luxury SUV while chatting idlely on her cell phone wanders into the path of your treasured 914, wouldn't you want as big a contact patch and as sticky a tire as could be utilized on your 5.5 rims? Or perhaps you are out with your car and suddenly you get caught in a downpour, would you not want to have tires that are current in their design to provide the wet-weather traction and anti-aquaplanning characteristics that are going to provide for a safer and more maneuverable auto? And finally, the greater adhesion provided with a tire that has both a bigger contact patch and a more agressive tread pattern is going to give me a bit more lateral grip so that perhaps I won't have to "white-knuckle" the steering wheel when some Dodge Durango or Honda Civic starts climbing up my tailpipe in the twisties.

I admit to running on 195/60 15s. They look good, fit well, appear not out-of-character to the 914s' design and I have had the pleasure(?) of using the brakes/tires in extremis to avoid a collision. I don't think that 165s would have given me the margain I needed in that situation.

So I'll take the point loss for my lack of OEM spec tires, traded gladly for the improvement in driving performance that they provide.

Paul

All very true and well said Paul.
On the "price point" issue, I am still puzzled about the "H" rated tire on the standard 4 cyl. 914. Does anyone have that documented? I bought a new 914 in '70 and would have sworn the tires were S rated. My 912 does state H tires in the spec. section of the owner's maual. And we know H's came on the six and the LE.

I wouldn't take exception to your logic if not for the "pure" (Pat will like that word) nature of a Preservation Class in a Concours, AND the law in Maine that dicates that the original tire specs be maintained on all replacement tires for inspection purposes.

If this sounds like a rehash of one of my prior ramblings, bear with me. Maine has been a stickler for correct autombobile OEM acceptable tires for the past few years. Inspection stations have been cited for failure to comply with the law, and tire sales and service won't even quote you on a tire that they know is not meeting OEM specs, let alone mount them. The only way around it is to purchase tires mail order, and mount them yourself, or find a tire service center that will mount them for you (wheels delivered off the car), and then pray that the inspection station misses the tire OEM check. I believe this all came about during the time frame that SUV's were rolling over from incorrect tire sizes.

Now if Porsche would just issue a notice of what current tire sizes are acceptable for earlier Porsche's (as they do with recent models) then we would be golden. I'll bet that Maine is not the only state with the law on the books.

My '70 914-4 came with 155SR15's on steel wheels (4 1/2").

If you were happy with the Kumo's on a 4 1/2" rimmed 911, then you should be equally happy with them on a 912 (less rear end weight).

I certainly wouldn't dismiss the Vredestein's just because of the name. It might be comforting to confirm with Coker Tire that their vintage tires are manufacturered with contemporary fabrications materials and methods with molds from the past (as I understand it), from a performace and safety view point.

BTW, don't forget to factoring the cost of tubes if you go the XAS route.

The same EOM was on my '70/4, and I'm not going to tiptoe around on that tire/rim combination again.

Paul