Any advice/suggestions for mounting a video camera in our track only car? There is virtually no interior left and a bracket would be fabricated and welded into place for mounting.

Any brand/model recommendations? Any brands/models to avoid?

The car is a DE only vehicle.

What I THINK I want is a small, lightweight camera that stores video on Digital Tape, and can be powered from the car 12v system. I want something that will be easy to transfer video to a PC and then burn DVD's to be played in stand-alone players.

I want enough resolution that it will look decent full screen on a television.

It will need to be hard wired as there is no lighter plug (or dash for that matter).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Why not one of those compact sony DV recorders? I'm sure you can get enough battery time or splice in a +12V connection from the battery and run it off that. I think you can get a few hours on one of those little mini-discs.

I did a little research on it after posting here.

I kind of like what I read about the the DCR-HC96.


I found some on-line prices between $550-$600.


Anyone have any experience with them?

One of the cart guys at my local SCCA group has a neat little helmet cam. Might be worth a look.


Helmet camera

Something to consider when mounting is EMI shielding. with the camera grounded to a roll bar my video and sound is much cleaner. with the camera mounted to a "race chase" boom and suction cup the noise was terrible.

I am using a simple digital camera with video feature.

Thanks for the tip. I plan on fabricating a "permanent" mount somewhere in the vehicle (probably to the cage).

I have been using a setup called Race Cam for several years now and it is great. The camera is a wide angle so you get the driver and the complete windshield view. It also has a sun shield so that the view out the windshield is not washed out and you can see inside the car. I uses a Sony DAT digital recorder and can output to a TV or a DVD recorder. A tape is good for about 3 twenty minute race sessions or 2 one half hour sessions. There is a good microphone and wired remote for starting/stopping when running under a yellow flag. It is not cheap but gives amazing videos.

I have the io port mount and only tried it with the video on my digital cam and so far works fine. Rubber isolated so no unwanted noise. For the video camera, if tapes work I'm thinking hi def. Check out this video:

http://stage6.divx.com/NYC-Motorsports/vid...run-in-High-Def

I'm looking into the Canon hv20. Has a video input too so you can do the picture in a picture thing with a bullet camera. My only question is the durability of a tape camera. Oh and this also takes videos at barbecue's and other affairs so dual purpose!

Chasecam and RCD have complete race car specific systems (record to a sd card so no moving parts) but I still think the high def video is better quality. Haven't seen any videos from the race cam so i can't comment on them.

From the bird board:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=296768

I was going to suggest the Pelican thread that Doninic linked. There's a lot of options in there.
Joe, tell us more about the shielding. Did you buy a ground cable or just mounting direct to the cage does it?

I would be surprised if there was much EMI or electronic interference with a video system no matter what type of camera there was used? There will be a lot of vibration interference and that can translate into the tape system if it is not shiedled from the vibration. Most hand held cameras have some sort of electronic stabilization so if it is mounted on the cage or roll bar with a solid mount there will be little fuzziness. One place you can get interference is with wind noise and Radio Shack sell foam mic covers that elminate the wind noise very well. With my Race Cam setup, the recorder is inside a foan lined case strapped to the floor of the car and the camera is mounted solid to the roll cage.

Several things to consider if getting a hand held camera: Run it with auto focus turned off and focus on the outside of the car in front, run it with zoom all the way out to get the best width range of video, make sure the remote works with driving gloves on and put some velcro on the remote so it won't fly around inside the car and make sure you have plenty of tapes before going racing so you don't overwrite anything.

Those all sound like excellent suggestions.

John, ever have any trouble with tapes malfunctioning? Also, have you ever tried any type of uv filter or is the hood on your race cam enough to cope with the washout from the sun?

Thanks,
Dominic

I have a UV filter on the camera mostly as a protector for the lens glass. The race cam has a small allen adjuster on the bottom of the lense at the front and you move a shade filter up/dpwn to adjust the light in the windshield so it does not wash out. The tape unit is a Sony DAT recorder and never had a skipping issue.

John,
I thought about the auto focus after yesterday's event. I have a Panasonic PV-GS9 that I won a couple of years ago and an I/O port mount. The camera doesn't have a remote so you have to do everything by hand. It isn't too bad to work with. Here is one of my runs from Sunday. I will set the focus next time.

Heartland AX

I am still in the learning mode with my car and AXing. I guess I always will be.

Mike

That's one I did awhile ago. Used a sony HC3.

For in car I found the disc and hard drive cameras don't work. Tape is more robust and will not fail and easy. This video is High Defineition and I can't imagine buying anything of lower quality.

Get a camera that uses tape or get one of those compact flash based in car systems. Those have no moving parts but I don't think they do High Def for a reasonable price.

Trust me you want to stick with a mini dv tape camera. The others will fail and good luck returning them when they do.

I've been playing around with my wife's DCR-HC40. I can capture the video on the PC via the DV cable (firewire) and get acceptable results (for me).

Now I just need to figure out a robust method of attaching the camera in the car. I think the camera has a remote to start/stop the recording.

I'll also have to figure out how to manually control the focus and the brightness. Looks like it may be a fun challenge.

We've wanted to put a camera in the track car now for about 15 years and it may just make it in for our last event this year (in October).

I've got to get to work on a mount.

Here is a question about the videos posted on the web such as youtube: What format and resolution are those in? AVI, MPEG??? I'm more used to making VOB files for burning to DVD's.

VOB is just another for of Mpeg. For the most part I make everything a DIVX file. It gives you the highest resolution without being to large.

When you go to upload to many sights you will find they do not accept files over 100mb or 10 minutes. So using DIVX format will resolve alot of this.

Also I use a site called Veoh.com and Stage6.com

Stage6 is the only sight I know that lets you freeely upload any length and also in High definition.

Veoh.com is really handy because when you upload to there sight it will also upload to all your other video sites. So it knocks out 6 video sites in one upload(youtube myspace aol etc). It's really handy. Plus if your friends run Veoh on there home theatre and they are subscribed to your channel they get your videos automaticaly to the home theater. Really nice!!!

Thanks for the tips, Nathan. I went ahead and bought the Canon hv20 high def camcorder. (So now I'm 1000 dollars poorer thanks to your video of Yarin in high def! LOL) Read lots of good things about it. I recorded one autocross video with it but it came out too jittery. Afterwards, i found out that one clamp was loose on the io port camera mount. DOH! Worked well for vacation too! One question. What do you use to edit your videos?

I use Sony Vegas. Way before I picked up a camera I was an audio engineer for Sesame Street. Sony Vegas started it's life 10-15 years ago as a program for audio engineers. So the controls are laid out like a multitrack recorder and make alot more sense to me then say Premiere or Final Cut. I also never have issues with taking in different formats like all my friends have with the other programs. My system is pretty high end though. But Vegas is scalable.

My computer has 3 32inch widescreen monitors, 2 quad core processors and runs blackmagic decklink with Vegas. I have a terrabyte of storage localy and a file server with another 10 terrabytes. Have a few other toys around but that's primarily what I use.

Wow! No wonder your videos look so professional! Thanks again!

so in other words.... we all know who to send raw footage to

Hey if you guys ever want to do a 914 dvd I can do that easy. I have so many resources at my disposal. I can mass produce 1 million disc in a month if need be.

So doing a few thousand for the 914 club would be a drop in the bucket and alot of fun for me to do.

You guys want it and want to send the footage to me I will have it done and pressed and shipped in 2 months.

It would be a nice change from the ricer, drifting and illegal racing dvds I do right now.

Ok,

I have done my first experimentation at recording sessions at the DE I attended last weekend. I'm still trying to learn about the video editing.

I am using my wife's Sony DCR-HC40. It records to 60 minute DV tape.

I used some capture/editing software and successfully burned my first DVDs. On a regular (non high definition) Television, the image looks ok. Similar to that of a VHS Video Camera.

I used a fixed focus and a fixed exposure to do the recording.

Right now, I am trying to figure out what the different formats offer. All these video files are HUGE!!

I have a few questions:

1. What resolution constitutes High-Def? (it seems that HD video records in the 1080 lines. mine is 520 lines and it really makes a huge difference.)
2. If using DIVX format, the file size should be approx 10MB per minute? (don't know yet, but this seems optimistic.)
3. Is DIVX a codec that can be downloaded or is it a format the editing software must include? (Yes, DivX seems to be a downloadable codec that can work in other software)
4. Would an updated editing/conversion software be of benefit? I currently use an old version of Pinnacle Studio. (It may, but the real limit is the source file resolution)


For me, this seems to be a big learning curve, but it's fun to review/record driving sessions.

I've only been doing DE's for 20 years now, but am nearly a novice at the in-car-camera thing.

P.S. My 17 minute MPEG video is 257 MB. (a little large to upload somewhere)


EDIT: I answered most of my own questions.....



So far, I believe that the best setup would be the highest resolution DV camera that you can afford that records to DV tape. Tape being preferred due to robust design (due to vibrations).

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I use an I/O Port mount that attaches to my harness bar. To this I attach my JVC Everio digital video camera. It has an internal hard drive that is good for much longer than track sessions or autocross runs. I then attach the camera to the optional JVC DVD burner that I bought along with it. Quality is good enough that I can see my mistakes which is what I want it for...

Here is a link to my first attempt:


3 laps at Heartland Park

It did suffer from compression, but it does work.

That looks good John.
Your camera mount appears to flex a lot though.

Are you referring to the vibrations? The mount is currently welded to the firewall (which does flex quite a bit). I am considering bracing it a bit to reduce the bouncing if I can make it light enough. There isn't too much there to mount to. I looked at your in-car footage on your site. Yours does not vibrate at all.... How did you do that?



Thanks for the feedback.

I think it went well for the first attempt. I was a little disappointed with the resolution, but after seeing the prices for High Definition cameras, I think I will stick to what I already own.

Do you have any pictures of how you mounted your cam? I'm always looking for ideas.

John, check this link for tips on uploading video to youtube. I haven't tried it but the sample videos they show sure look good.

http://www.squidoo.com/youtuberight/

On another note, I'm having some problems with my canon hv20 (hi definition, tape) in the car environment.
Once the car is moving, the videos become nearly unwathchable because of the vibration. I/O port mount, manual focus, antishake on and still terrible. Nice picture when the car is moving slowly though.

Thanks for the tip. I'll go read that.

In the mean time, here is (by popular demand) the quick way to destroy 4 perfectly good (and almost new) tires. (Sorry Dad)

Anyway, they asked for it......

What not to do on the first run of the day.....

Was that a throttle lift spin?

I'm new to 914's and have been driving a WRX wagon on time trial days (pretty easy to drive). I'm considering taking the 914 to the track someday, most likely at a driving school first. I'm just a little concerned about people saying the 914 spins REALLY quick.

Thanks,
Walter

It wasn't what I would consider the classic drop throttle-oversteer.

I still think the main contributors to this slide were:

1. Cold driver, cold tires, cold brain, cold track
2. Continuing to turn at the crest of the hill (I normally try to drive straight through that turn)


Once the back end stepped out, the car didn't respond to counter-steering. I was at or close to full lock with the wheel before giving up and standing on the brake pedal. At that point, I was more concerned with stopping (and avoiding the concrete barriers lining both sides of the track), so both feet in.

It sure felt like it took more time for the car to get out of shape and then stop than it did in that video. Perhaps time compresses during those events.

I think the last time I spun was 5+ years ago.

When properly set up, 914's are incredibly stable cars and can be driven very quickly.

The vibrations are something I expect. The flex is visible by watching the position of the turn signal hump move around on the screen. Any triangulated bracing should diminish this substantially.
Actually I think mine vibrates a lot but not continuously, mostly just from hitting bumps and curbing. I use an IO port mount that mounts on the roll cage. It offers a wide adjustment range to position the camera.
As far as resolution goes, you have to make a trade off between file size and picture quality. I save the highest resolutions for very short clips.

I'm finding that out about the resolution. Short clips seem to be small enough to upload.

I made my mount. It is welded to the firewall (which flexes). I have a plan to add an angle iron brace to stiffen up the firewall in the location of the camera mount. It should reduce the movement considerably.

I still wonder if some of the movement could be inherent in the camera stabilization mechanism....

Watch as the Chevron goes past!

That thing was FAST.

I tried all those tips, but none have seemed to help at all. My original method seems to be the best so far, but I'm fairly confident that I'm missing many things.

All the videos posted on my site were made using a Sony MiniDV camera (forgot which exact model), mounted to the rollbar with the I/O port mount.

One trick is to keep the arm of the mount as short as possible, another is to use a wide angle lens and set the focus to infinity. Im not sure if my camera has image stabilization or not.

Most of the clips are taken in a 800hp car with 700# and 900# springs....

I use ulead software to edit and compress the clips.

Video clips.

WOW Tim,

That was fun.

It was good to see Summit Point again. It's been a long long time. That is the first track I ever drove on. Watkins Glen was the second.

That is some car (the turbo)

It seems as if your camera moves around as much as mine does. It helps me to view other's video so I can see how it was encoded:

Video encoder version
resolution
Frames per second
Bitrate

It seems like I have been using too high of bitrate when encoding my low res videos.

I am also going to experiment with the settings when originally capturing the video from the DV camera.

OK I just checked what kind of camera I do have, Sony TRV11 MiniDV, it doesnt have image stabilization.

Im wondering if alot of what is percieved as camera movement is the camera moving with the car, for example Lime Rock is a pretty rough track, the camera seems to be moving more than it does at smoother tracks like Roebling or Watkins Glen.

The 935 is hardly smooth riding with the spring rates we run.... some of those shocks are reflected by the camera since it is coupled directly to the car.

Its been awhile since Ive posted new video so Ill have to relearn how to edit and compress.....Carolina Motosports Park is coming up in two weeks.
All the info on my videos is available if you look in thr properties of the video, but you probably know that already.

If the camera was moving with the car, there would be no "point of view" changes, but since the parts of the car that are in frame change locations in the frame, the camera and car are moving with relation to each other. At least that is what mine is doing slightly. I'm stiffening my mount up a bit and that will be that. If it moves after that, I'll live with it.

The video already shows me what I was after.

I got to film with Chris one day a few months ago. It didn't go as well as I would have liked.

1. My friend was using the larger camera that I normaly use in the pits and on the side of the track. So I only had my in car camera.

2. I had never filmed in a open cockpit car before. Chipped the lense to death. I didn't notice it till later and all the stuff I filmed afterwards was kinda shot.

Both these things kinda bit me in the ass. But you live and learn. Have 3 cameras incase one is broken or lost. Have to get out there again with Chris this year.


But I got some cool in car of him racing.
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v12639924QhkK9DM?c=porschetv


For the internet you don't really need HD quality. I edit in HD but down convert for the net. What I find is even if I upload in HD most people can't watch it. Even my home computer cannot play HD quality.



OH incase this didn't come up. Hard Drive and DVD cameras don't work in race cars. To much vibration. I would imagine in a few years you will see 20 gig compact flash cards replace tape which would be really nice.

The high resolution isn't the problem that I'm having with my ENORMOUS files. It's the conversion to lower resolution that really bugs me.

My movies look perfectly fine on the TV after burning DVD's, but getting to something that looks like something on a computer monitor has not happened for me yet.

How do they fit full length movies onto DVD's? I can only fit about an hour.

For my next test, I'm going to try capturing (tape to PC) at a lower resolution and see how that goes.

DVDs use a variable bit rate. Most people use a constant bitrate for their DVDs since they dont want to spend the extra time on the multiple passes that a variable bit rate requires.

TVs are very low resolution compared to a computer monitor.

What kind of problems are you seeing? What looks bad about them?

I simply can not match the quality of similar videos that can be found at places like youtube. I can't seem to even get the quality found in the video turboman posted a link for. My source files are fine, but when I try to reduce the resolution, they either stay HUGE file sizes or they are really really unpresentable (pixelated, grainy, and full of hieroglyphics.)

Your posted videos look good considering the crap that youtube does to uploaded videos. Turboman's video looks like the source is much better. Much more saturated and vibrant colors. Plus its higher resolution than the youtube crap. Youtube automatically shrinks the video down to 320x240 or something similar although it recommends uploading at a higher resolution.