So, granted tonight I am starting in a bad mood. My day started sucking shortly after waking up this morning, and I have been looking forward to being able to work on the car tonight to work out my frustrations.

So, it turns out that my paint supplier has given me all sorts of bad information, which I used - and explains why I was having such poor performance with my paint.

So, details.

I am using a Nason Ful-Thane 2K Urethane paint.
Under that is Nason Select Prime 421-17 2K Urethane Primer
and under that is Full Poxy 491-16

What I did not put down, between the 2K Primer and the top coat is a sealer, which I just noticed is marked REQUIRED on the data sheet I just printed out.

So, what. Am I up sh*ts creek? What does this sealer do? I am just finishing up color sanding now. Do I need to strip it back down to primer, get more paint mixed and start over? If I do, I don't see how this car is going to get done this year.

My jobber also told me to use 800 grit paper, and then polish.
Opps, they were wrong here too. Way wrong.

Can this be saved without stripping it again and spending another boatload of money on more paint? Or did my bad day just tip the scales into horrible?

Zach

Hi Zach,
I've prepped several cars and always had a shop just spray it and have always sealed my cars. What I was told that if you don't, you can get shrinkage with the prep materials sinking into imperfections etc and you will end-up getting scratches and stuff begin showing through your top layer nice paint job.

Hopefully, this won't be the case with your car. Perhaps some more knowledgeable ones will chime in with some good news...or at least next steps for you.

Good Luck,
Mark

Zach the sealer is NOT a necessary but is highly recommended. What was the final grit paper you sanded with BEFORE laying down the color? The sealer is to help CONTROL: soakback but it (selaer) will stiull shrink and allow some soakback. Sealer is also to get a uniform shade before applying color, and in some cases to seperate dissimilar paints. Your main concern is not an adhesion issue but a bleeding through issue and possible soakback of the sanding scratches. NEVER try to buff out anything less than 1500 scratches. Your jobber is an idiot

Thats a relief, kind of. There is no dis-similar paint on my car - I took it down to metal and painted it all back with DuPont Nason products. Maybe that is why they did not give me the sealer?



My last sanding before spraying this top coat was 400 followed with 800. The primer was really smooth. Is is possible that I dodged a bullet by doing this?



No argument there. I just went to DuPonts website to see if they could suggest anyone else in my area, and there is actually another jobber just down the road from me, walking distance. I'll be taking my business there.

For the moment, as this omission is not going to casue my paint to flake off with the first wash, I am going to steal some of Howie's left over and just continue as I was. if I need to I can redo it nex year or something. Fix all the mistakes I am glossing over now...

Zach

Since you're using a single stage and a solid color you would have been fine to block the primer with 400 and then lay down the color. Single stages fill in much better than 2 stage, and solid colors do not show sand scratched anywhere near as bad as metallics. As far as dodging a bullet not really. 800 is a little too fine for the final color but I really wouldn't worry about it ay this point. For any of the areas you need to touch up, I would suggest wet snading with 600 and no finer, then do you touch up. Also if you have to touch up, ask the NEW job shop about using a blending agent. It is bassically like over reducing your color so it will melt into the surrounding area better.

This is good information from Scotty, I work for a automotive paint manufacturer (not Nason) and the information about sealer is generally true. Sealer provides a uniform surface for consistent coverage and consistency. This coating is not meant to provide build characteristics or cover over improper prep work. Your final sanding on the primer is definitely on the "finer" side, but may not cause a problem for you. Time will tell and the end result is often a combination of all of the steps and prep work done prior to the base (or in your case, final color coat.) IMHO, Nason products would be on the more "generous" side for beginners as they are not quite as critical in what painters can get away with. Remember, Always consult the TDS sheets on these products first so you lay it down right and wear a good respirator to protect your health. Let me know if you need more input or
Jeff

I need an inside man

Don't know what you need, but PM me, I'll see what I can do

[quote name='nowlings' date='Sep 2 2007, 10:54 PM' post='941665']
--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Sep 2 2007, 08:46 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
[quote name='nowlings' post='941660' date='Sep 2 2007, 07:38 PM']
I work for a automotive paint manufacturer
Jeff
[/quote]


I need an inside man
[/quote]
Don't know what you need, but PM me, I'll see what I can do
[/quote]

We could use a fleet discount on quality paint. You could probably sell more to us than you can imagine.

On the not using a sealer. If you didn't see any funny things show up like wrinkling, swelling of underling preprations or discoloration, forget about it. Since this is your first attempt you will see lots of things show up in the next few months or years that you will decide to do over. I don't think you will have an adhesion problem. The only bad thing is the sealer would keep the new repairs that you do from getting under the older paint. If on the next repair you try on this car, if you have any problems you could then use a sealer to be safe. The only thing is you can't spot repair very easy and use a sealer without doing a whole panel. Mainly the sealer is just that, it stops the hotter top coat from lifting the earlier repairs and different types of paints that were used in the preparation and gives a nice even color to paint the top coat over. I have used epoxy primer,thinned a small amount, to lay down smoother, as a sealer.

When you get tired of looking at the worst part of the car, if it doesn't need any filler, just shows shrinkage, just block it out with 600 and shoot some more top coat over it, this will probably work ok if you don't go through the old top coat. All bets or off though if you go through the top coat and don't use a sealer. If the shrinkage is bad you will go through the top coat.

Always study the manufacturers sheets on the whole paint system and don't take anybodys word on what you need to do. It's not their car or their money and time.
The counter paint guys only sell paint. If they could paint they would be doing it.

Just think how much you have learned about prepping and painting, It's just to bad the materials cost so much. Don't give up. Just rest awhile. Don't get in a hurry. Don't breath the vapors, it's a real expensive high.

Charlie

Just chiming in..I've sold Dupont paint (including Nason) for the last 15 years. The auto parts store that I work at is a full line dupont jobber. You will have no problem not using the sealer, between the epoxy and urethane primers you will have excellent adhesion. I painted my garage sevice doors with that same paint and just the epoxy primer and there is no problems with any paint or primer chipping off. The one advantage of the sealer is that it does give a deeper DOI to the paint, but hardly noticable. If anybody wants a price on dupont products to see if there getting ripped, just PM me and I will give you the "club" pricing.

I'm back to lurking...

I did not use a sealer and I have no shrinkage. I used Nason 421-19 primer/surfacer. My jobber said to prep that with 600 and you do not need a sealer. It does depend on the primer, however. He said that a laquer based primer could produce shrinkage. But the 421-19 held up well, perhaps that is what you used.

FYI If when sanding your sealer you should break through to reveal body putty, it is always a good idea to re-seal that spot as body putty does have a tendency to bleed through the paint over time leaving a discolored spot. If the area is smaller than a nickel it may not be of concern to you but I promise EVERY time you look at your car you will see that one spot !