I don't plan to technically RACE, but looking to do DE's, auto-x, etc. For these events do I necessarily need a fuel cell?

I currently have one, but won't be able to do the v8 radiator thing and keep the current cell (if I decide to go that route).

Here is the reply from FuelSafe re: my inquiry about their 914 cells:
----------------------------
Brian,
We take the stock tank and install a bladder in it. The cost is 1275.00
and
takes 4 weeks to make. I have a distributor that has them ready to
ship. It
is Patrick motor sports and there number is 602-244-0911.

Thanks,
Harold
-----------------------------

Thanks for the help guys...I can't tell you how much I enjoy the community here.

Brian

I never want to talk someone out of adding safety equipment to any car.
Check the rules for the groups you plan to run with.
Do they require a fuel cell?

How big is the one that is in the car now? 15 gal.?
Are you planning on doing any enduros?
Can you get a smaller (5 gal.?) cell that will fit with the radiator?
There are a viariety of shapes and sizes available.

Do you need a fuel cell?
I hope you never have to find out! ( on wood)

Hey Brian, did the Fuel Safe guys mention if their price includes the same exact "build" as Jim Patrick's? In other words, the filler neck tweaks, painting, and whatever else. His price was $1625 outright w/o core IIRC. I kinda doubt that he has them on the shelf either, but maybe. I am planning to tackle this sometime next Spring, after I get a couple other projects wrapped up.

FWIW I had also talked to ATL about doing a 914 stock-tank bladder, but they have not done it before. They said they could provide a quote if someone had the exact measurements and specs. Maybe we could get a little price pressure going?

Both ATL and Fuelsafe Offer fuel cells that are tall and thin (like your cell turned on it's side) , and have the filler on top . You may be able to find one that will fit behind the bulkhead where the stock tank was.
Worth a call.
Dave

Interesting thought Chris. I would'nt mind approaching ATL and being a distributor for a 914 oriented relpacement cell (go head to head with Patrick)

Dave also has a good point. I know they make one that would fit in the stock location that is narrow and tall. You might lose 2-3 gallons because the narrow/tall tank wont go into the bottom of the tub like the stock one does.

I may call ATL after the Holidays. I can send them a few tanks that they can cut up.


B

I researched the stock fuelsafe and atl tanks that would fit in the stock location. I think only the 5 gal would fit. That is definitely not enough fuel, even for sprint races. Also, if you are going V8, forget about a small cel.

Here is a picture of a mock up I did of the 8 gal fuelsafe cel. You can see it does not fit. And don't forget about the filler neck and cap, fuel inlet, fuel outlet, vent line that come out the top. They said that they could move the feed and return to the side and give me a low profile filler but it just did not sound like a good idea to me.

I like the stock tank cel conversion but thought it was too expensive and would interfere with equipment we may want to add later in that area. Stuff like tilton master cylinders, oil tank, whatever.

I still feel uneasy about having my cel up in the "crumple zone" of the car, but everything is a compromise somehow and almost every other 914 and 911 racecar has the cel up there.

dr

I just got off the phone w/ Craig at ATL. He said that he could build me a "vertical" verision of my 12 gal cell you see in the first post for a little over $600. It would probably only work in my particular application problem, but gives you an idea of what a custom tank will run. BTW, it is one of their "Sports" cells (FIA, SCCA approved).

that's about what they quoted me for a custom.

remember that there is stuff down in that compartment. I would mainly be concerned about clearance for the front sway bar passthru.

There must be someone else who has radiators and a fuel cel up front in their conversion.

If you pay them to fab that cel and there is an unforseen clearance problem, you have youself a $600 nightstand.

dr

What would be the possibility of building a fuel cell that sits partially in the area of the existing tank and partially in the rear of the trunk space. The bulkhead would have to be notched. This would put the fuel lower than the stock tank but further back than the cell in the first picture? The cell would have to be made to step up from the trunk floor to the fuel tank floor. The bulkhead could be reinforced to make up for notching it.

my $.02,

a lot of racers do run the cell and cooler up front.
Perhaps do some more picture surfing.

One thing you could do:
buy a smaller cell, that does not protrude as far forward.
Also your install could be improved upon. We cut into the bulkhead and scoot the cell towards the back of the car. You have to cut the floor up a little too, but you can gain another 3 or so inches by moving the cell backwards...

combine that 3 inches plus a cell that is 3-6 inches shorter, and you would have enough room for your exit ducts.

brant

I think you are talking about this rig.

I don't like it. In a big corner impact, the cut firewall will probably section the fuel cel in half.

I like the intermediate firewall where it is. Like a secondary barrier between cockpit and cel.

dr

That one is mounted a bit high up for my liking.

This is a nice one. I've seen these around before.

The tank is high.. but you start a 25 minute race with half a tank of gas.


B

l8apex, do you have a front shot of that patrick ms car?

yeah, it's all over their website.

thanks...

what about this....wider, thinner and taller....but would give room for radiator. I would leave battery as is.

what do you think?

oh yeah, and kind of contoured to the fender wells

Can you get enough capacity out of that design?

I think so...go wider and taller than the one I have....should work. I'm sure some math wizard could figure out the volume.... Maybe I'll go out to the garage and do some measuring

I sorta assumed that the fuel cell itself was the 2nd firewall to the driver...

look at the dirt cars, and other types of racing. I've seen legal cars, and tube cars with very little between driver and cell... 911's don't have a 2nd firewall... most cars don't.

Another option is to move the radiators...
I'm putting twin fluidynes into the headlight area so as to open up more of the floor for cell...

(I'm still cutting part of the floor and 2ndary firewall in order to move the fuel weight towards the center of the car and keep it as low as possible. I'll skin the bottom of the cell where it comes through into the steering rack cavity)

Thats a nice looking cell (both your diagram and the patrick) but its a lot of extra work and money. I'd rather spend the money on doing a pre-fab aluminum or give up and revert back to a stock tank.

brant

Here is an actual pic of the Patrick/FuelSafe in-tank unit.

There are several reasons I was leaning that way. Obviously full capacity; designed to fit with stock bulkhead, swaybar etc in place; and legal for vintage stuff where tank/cell needs to be in stock-ish location.

As Brad mentioned, there is some advantage to moving the fuel mass down lower in the tub...but you almost never run at the track with a full tank anyway, so the gas actually in the cell at any point in time IS down low. Plus, it might not be desirable from a handling standpoint to move the fuel mass forwards - the old "polar moment" thing.

It would be awesome for somebody to get their hands on the correct bladder and other parts and make them available as a DIY "kit" or a turnkey tank for less than Patrick's price. I doubt FuelSafe will do it, so maybe ATL or Jaz or somebody else?

Oops, forgot the pic.

I can compute the volume if you give me the basic dimensions.

dr

32 x 8 x 16 inches = how many gallons?

17.7 gal

well that seems sufficient.

Is that like the Polar Express? Good story this time of year.

This is similar to what I have in mind except the cell is sitting up on a bracket that puts it up where the stock tank is. I'd like to have the front half sit on the trunk floor and the rear half step up to the stock fuel tank ledge. I think it would be a good compromise.