I picked up a 9 230 081 050 new Bosch distributor for $50 at the GAF swap meet today and just looking for some tuning tips. I am used to tuning FI motors with a vacum advance. I will most likely drop in a pertronix unit as well so not to mess with points.

What do I need to know about using this guy with a cabureted motor?
Since this is a fully centrifigual distributor, what is the proper timing specs for a 1.8 with weber 40s? Do I set the timing at 3200 rpm for about 27 degrees and not worry about where the timing ends-up at a idle?

Appreciate any tips,
Mark

when I had an .050, I just static timed it to 10 degrees BTDC. Now I have a Mallory, and it is "impacted" by much smaller variations than the .050 was. It wants to be timed with a light to exactly 7 (Ithink- I would have to check my notes) degrees BTDC at 1000 rpm. When I have moved it around "by feel" like the old 050, it always got messed up.

sell it and put that 50 toward the mallory.....

ok ok... not what you asked.

I *BELIEVE* that the 050 has too much 'sweep' to it. Say it has a 30 degree range built into it....

so if you do 10 degrees at idle, you would have 40 degrees of advance at higher rpms... (too much)

so to get your total advance down to 28... it would be WAY TOO RETARDED at idle.

12 deg initial and 28 deg final works great on carbed motors. The mallory is the ticket, because you can setup advance rate, initial and final advance stops.....

Good meeting you today! The above is my honest to God opinion. I did the 050 before the mallory. Eye opening difference.

also... unless that 050 is NEW, the bushings could be kinda worn, and when you watch the timing with a light, it will move around several degrees...... hardly a precision piece these days. Mallory has bearings and very stable spark timing.

Motor On,
AA

Never mind............

Mark,
I love my 050. It woke my engine up big time (2056 w/ Dells)! Mine was new when I installed it so I don't know if you'll have the same luck curving it but, I found that when I set mine for 27 degrees advance at 3500 rpm it settles to about 7 degrees advance at 1000 rpm. I have never been able to find an advance curve to compare it to but after playing with it a little I got it pretty dialed. Of course the car had an 009 when I got it so anything is better than that!

Tweak it to the specs I gave you at GAF. It will be even a little better.
And it will be even easier to dial your carbs in next time. Believe it..!!!!!

Clayton

Lot's of ideas. I am in no way married to this dizzy yet. It is actually for the 75 (new to me 914 ) that I'm working on which currently has a FI dizzy with vaccum advance and weber 40s.

The 050 is spanking brand new in the box, never been installed before. When I ran into at GAF I figure I couldn't go wrong either way for $50...always kept reading on the board how these 050s are pretty rare to come across anymore and 009s were junk.

Clayton...I don't remember you telling me how to setup the 050? Perhaps I'm just getting old.

Keep the ideas coming...do I jump ship with the 050 like Aaron said selling it to put towards a Mallory or just give it a whirl?
Mark

Hey Mark,
You rode in my car and it has 40mm Webbers and an 050 distributor with the petronix. It seems to me like it runs pretty good. To tell you the truth I've never messed with it at all. I've got tune up parts (which were just a little harder to track down) but every time I think about changing them I look and they still look about a week old. I'm perfectly happy with my 050.

The 050 is my least favorite distributor sof street engines... They set up way retarded at idle speeds and create rich running engines that usually have low mid range hesitations.

Hmmm...sounds like the 050 is working for some. Coy, I've rode in you car, but I didn't notice some of the symptoms that Jake spoke of...what do you think?? You don't happen to know anything about your timing specs/curve?

PM if you don't want to be verbally abused.. Thanks for your input
Mark

I'm sure I could get verbally abused here, but I really don't know much (which probably just seems obvious every time I write something here). I know for certain that it's an 050, because the 009 tune-up parts didn't fit.

I bought the car from a guy named Joe Sharp and he put the 050 in (replacing an 009 because he'd heard they had a better curve). I will see if I can find his Email address and ask if he still remembers, but it's been a long time now. He told me when I bought it that he used to frequent the Pelican board so you might do a search over there.

I don't have a timing light, so I'm afraid I can't even tell you what it's timed at. How much could I potentially figure out with limited knowledge and equipment? I'd be happy to try & help.

The only other 914 I've ever driven was my 1.7 and that ran good, but this thing runs great compared to it. Note exactly the kind of in depth analysis you were looking for, huh?

Sorry I'm not any more help.

I ran a 050 for a long time, always had a dead spot off idle. If you set the initial timing to 12 degrees to get rid of the dead spot you end up with too much advace at 3200 rpm. If you set it to 27 degrees at 3200 rpm you don't have enough advance at idle and have a dead spot. Sell it on ebay to someone that loves Bosch distributors and buy a Mallory. I picked up a used Mallory dual point for 50 bucks and installed a Pertronix in it. Made a huge difference over the 050.

The 050 has a faster curve, but it also has more advance built in. The 050 was made for the Porsche 356/616 engines that have a hemi chamber and like more full advance than our engines, generally 32-36 BTDC Vs the 28-30* of the TIV.

More times than not the 050 is THOUGHT to be a better dizzy because it boosts down low torque with it's faster advance and gives a false feel for what else the dizzy is doing. Fact is the 050 is easy to overadvance the engine, all that added down low advance is a positive thing, but it is overcome with the fact that to attain a 30* full advance the 050 will generally set up at 0-2*BTDC, about 10-12 degrees LESS than we have found to be optimum for smooth transition and idle speeds without hesitations.

Those that set the 050 up with 5-7BTDC idle settings will enbd up with 35-37 BTDC full advance and that'll fry the heads and pistons or simply make for higher engine temps.

The 050 still has the same crappy stock bushings and terminal placement as the 009 and it scatters the timing just as bad and timing accuracy is the key to a clean running, predictable engine that runs good head and oil temps.

The 009 is crappy, but at least it doesn't create issues l;ike the 050 does, especially when tuned without a dyno.

Okay Jake,

I know you won't like my engine set-up at all... I have a 2.0 with 40mm webbers & hydraulic lifters with an aftermarket cam & 050 distributor with petronix.

I'm really not after power... I don't race and that's not really why I own a 914. I just think they're fun to drive.

I'm not going to rebuild the engine until I need to, and in fact; I want this engine to last as long as possible.

What would you recommend for a distributor? Also, are there any other cheap & easy alterations I could make to increase longevity and dependability with this set-up?

Oh, by the way... Sorry for hijacking your thread Mark.

mallory unilite or crankfire are the only accurate ways to fly these days

Okay Arron, to show you just how little I know about the thread that I continue to hijack... Can I use my petronix on the mallory unilite or crankfire or are these electronic ignitions? Would I need to replace the coil or anything else?

mallory unilite = a billet body dizzy, with bearings instead of bushings, and uses an OPTICAL pickup instead of points. Very Accurate spark distribution

(your pertronix is a points eliminator.... it uses magnets and acts as a hall effects sensor. Optical uses infrared light and a photo pickup and a 'windowed' wheel to sense when to spark)

crank fire uses a toothed wheel on the CRANK pulley, with a sensor looking at the wheel, again using the hall effects principle, it knows exactly where the crank is in its revolution, allowing a computer to know when to spark a certain cylinder.

That is the very simplified laymans rundown...
if its a slow day at work... hit up google

I know little about the 050, but have done many a distributor re-curve on domestics. Surely it can't be too difficult to change the total timing in the 050 if the rate is considered to be decent enough. Is there some sort of pin-in-slot plate or something that could be easily modified? At first glance (from what I read here), you only need to take out about 6 degrees of distributor advance (12 degrees crank) to get it where it is deemed right. Since you're not dealing with rate, a simple degree wheel rigged to the distributor rotor shaft would be the only tool you'd need. Afterall, Mark has a brand new distributor to work with, so even with "bushings" it ought to be quite good....I would think.

Andys

I agree with andys.

I WON'T put a dizzy on any engine I build for me.

WITHOUT HAVING THE DIZZY CURVED TO a known proper spec for that combo.
Doesn't matter if it's Chevy or Ford or Porsche..

Or a book spec on a bone stock engine.

Old dizzys with perfect bushings still may have worn springs or advance weight bushing issues... ect... ect.... And they won't advance/retard correctly. It doesn't take much to screw em up either.

Thats why it is MANDATORY in my mind to have any dizzy checked on a distributor machine.

That includes the slightly used Mallory I bought for my soon to be new build.

Hell it's cheap (30 -75 bucks) And guarantees it is set up RIGHT with no hiccups.

I just don't trust ANY stock or aftermarket dizzy to be the curved correctly because the directions say so. I just don't buy it.

And yes the Mallory Distributor is the cats meow for our application.
Thats common knowledge to many of the folks here.

It all kinda depends on the amount of money one has at the time.

Even a 009 works recurved with ALL NEW BUSHINGS, springs, etc... and a bunch of careful tweaking. (And I fucking hate 009s)

It's just not optimum.

And the farther away one gets from stock and goes more towards performance.
Every little bit makes a BIG difference on longevity and performance. (Hence the Mallory or programmable ignition)

I say curve it with a smooth curve and run it. 12 idle/ 28 -30 all in at 3K+

Thats a good ballpark number to start with.

Then when you have some extra bucks.
Sell it to a 356 or 912 guy for 200 bucks, then add 150 to it and buy a Mallory.

Thats what I would do anyway. If'n I couldn't afford a Mallory at the time.

Lets be clear on one thing. Jake doesn't like em and he explained himself very well as to why. I'm not dumb enough to make him wrong. As he knows more than me.

That doesn't mean it won't work.
And work BETTER than a worn out stock dizzy. (this assumes thats your case)

By the way. A properlyrebuilt STOCK dizzy that has been re-curved is relatively equal (or better) to almost any of the other BOSCH dizzys we have talked about here.

I just wish the Bosch dizzys had Bigger caps to alleviate spark scatter.
We can't fix that design problem. Ya just have to buy a Mallory to mitigate that.

Give your 050 a try and see what happens. OR sell it now for bank and get the Mallory like Aaron said.

Oh.. All of the above was reffering to a bosch dizzy WITHOUT points.
Add points into the decision on a used bosch dizzy. NOT ME.

Wow... One more thread and I didn't say anything... I getting good at this stuff.........

Cheers,

Clayton

Put a timing light on any 009,050 or similar dizzy and shoot your timing..

Do the same with a Mallory..

The difference is night and day, spark delivery is mega important, the 009 and 050 scatter horribly, even with new bushings as the issue is the advance mechanism and it's sloppiness that is very hard to get rid of.