I know there is info here on this, but a search didn't turn up much. Little back ground here, I picked up a complete 74 911 with 2.7 for $300 last month. My two year plan was to do a 5 lug swap using this 911 and then /6 conversion, but after reading Chuck's thread on /6 motor selections and Conedodger's thread on his 2270 build it has me rethinking my plan a little.

Here is what I want from my 914. A great AX car that I can drive on the street from time to time. Must have heat, so need heat exchangers. Now all I know about the 2.7 I have now is that will turnover, but I haven't done a compression check yet. So it might need a rebuild $$$$$ But lets just assume it doesn't, but it will need a good once over.

Not counting the 5 lug stuff, just parts needed for a /6 I would need the following:

/6 engine (got that, but Chucks thread has me wondring if a 2.7 is a good idea)
/6 carbs (If I didn't stay CIS)..... $2000
/ 6 engine mount ( looking at Rich Johnsons setup) ~$500
complete oil tank, filler next, dip stick..... ~1500
/ 6 heat exchangers (I know, I know) .....~$1500 - $2500 ish
/ 6 Muffler........$??? ($250 - $400???)
/ 6 engine tin ......$??? ($300??)
Front oil cooler and lines.......$???? ($250???)
Misc engine work (tune up, FI cleaned...) $1000
Labor for stuff I can't do (welding, mis install stuff) $1500

Please tell me if my numbers are off or if I have missed anything. Using the lower end of these numbers I'm looking at around $8800. Now if the 2.7 needs more than just a tune up, YIKES!!!!!

I haven't talked with Jake yet, but based on his website it looks I would be in for around $8.5k for the turnkey 2270 motor I would want.

What I like about the big 4 is I don't need to do any of the above in order to install it. And from what I read I would have the same amount of power as a 2.7 /6

Please don't turn this into a big 4 vs /6 thread, I just really want to get my numbers as close to real as possible on the /6 stuff. Once I get that then I will contact Jake on the big costs.

My AX weapon
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The donor
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Garold,
there is nothing wrong with a 2.7L motor....is the donor an S or a normal.
that will make some difference in stock power.
150hp for normal and 175 for S motor. and ~195 ftlbs. of torque. That is brand new factory HP figures.
your motor will vary. Again putting carbs on a CIS motor might be similar to putting them on a stock 914 Djet motor....the cam(s) dont like carbs...too much.

depending on induction type and rebuild, a nice 2.7L will easily give you anywhere from 160-~300HP....big range depending on your budget.
I had a 2.7L spec motor in my 6 and it was in the 225HP range...ran well on pump gas with Webers. Stock heat exchangers with twin pipe sport muffler.
the car was a lot of fun...but way too much motor for 205s or even 225s. You will need to flair at least the rear fenders to get enough tire on the ground to use your power. Also the 901 does not like that much power (I know what others will say) but with no limited slip the 901 is the weakest link.
For a street/AX/track car the trans takes a beating and the 2.7L motor has a ton of torque...
btdt. 5 years of ax and track and street.....at least 3 rebuilds of the tranny, one with a replacement case.
for any 6 conversion over 2.4L that is going to be used in competition the 901 is the weakest link in the drive train.

If you decide not to use the 1974 engine/transmission and want to make me a smokin deal on it, I'll take it off your hands. It sounds like you got a smokin deal on the rest of the car. Wheels, brakes, hubs, etc, etc.

What did you do, pick the most expensive for stuff you could find? It sure looks that way from your list.

That said, buy an already converted car. About 50 cents on the dollar is the going rate, it seems. I know, I know, you'd do it better,eh?.....me too.
See what the return on a big 4 is.

I did mine for 6800 several years ago before the Euro/dollar exchange rate went to hell.....that's just the conversion (with no cobbled up shortcuts) but none of the ancilary stuff, 5 lug, tires, suspension, yada.

with JP....sell your car and part out the 911 and then buy a car already converted.
good ones are out there and the money you save will help you make improvements to the new aquisition.

The initial cost, for me isn't the big issue. The big thing for me is reliability.
There are a few people that swear that a big 4 can be very reliable. I've been racing 4's for several years and I haven't experienced that much reliability. Of course there are explanations for every failure, but it's been quite a few of them. I build my own engines, so the blame lies in 3 places.
1. me, for not doing it good enough,
2. the machine shops that I've used have made a couple of mistakes, and
3. VW for not designing a better race motor to go in the type 4 cars and vans.
If you keep working at it, I think that all of the obstacles can probably be overcome and someone could build Hotrod 4's that will last, but ultimately you're pumping up a VW van motor.
I've built quite a few 6 cyl's as well and they don't seem to have the same affection for breaking at all, unless the driver sticks it in 2nd instead of 4th.
Ultimately, for me, the choice is this- do I want to continue racing an engine that was designed for slow cars like the 411/412/van, or would I rather race a motor that was designed to race?
I have a friend who had a nicely built 2.7, S cams, a little bigger ports, higher compression, Webers, open exhaust, not wild, just pretty nice.
He raced that engine for 8 years, 6-8 weekends a year of wheel to wheel racing, and he never had to open it up except once as a result of a missed shift.
This has been my experience and this is what I've arrived at.
Some of your /6 conversion numbers are a little high, IMO, and a couple might be a tad low.
I think if you look around for awhile you'll find some used carbs for around $500.00, I did.
A DW design tank, neck & etc. could be had for less than $1500, I think it's more like $1200.00
I've seen used /6 headers advertised here for $250.00 in the last few months.
New fiberglass engine tin might be more like $400, but what the heck, I've already saved you a couple grand.
I don't think that you'll need any welding, but for less than a grand you can buy a nice 110V mig, a bottle, and a really nice helmet and learn to weld. Look around at a welding shop, those guys aren't all Einsteins, and you could take a class at your local Community College if you don't think you could learn it on your own.

Lots of excellent info from experienced people. Run your costs on both sides and see what each comes up with and balance to a projected budget/your desires/evaluation. Jake Rabey had done considerable research and development. He does know what he is talking about. Make sure sure which channel is the best for you. Great info on which -6 engine is considered the best. I did not see any info on flywheel/clutch package (may have missed it). Good luck and if you have specific questions, ask away; these guys will give you an honest opinion/answer.

That 911 looks interesting; is there any rust? have most if not all the parts for the body conversion (front suspension, 911 brakes rear; 914-6 oil tank; etc.). Would neet the transaxle but not the engine.

There should be no further questions..............

Unless you just gots to do it yerself and you don't care about the $$$$. Oh yeah the time.

It is a fun project however. You can use thefront suspension off the 911. You have a 915 gearbox on the car - can be converted for 914 use along with the shift tower, etc. Rear axles could be used with spacers. Instruments would fit right into a Getty dashboard.

It never ends. Time and Money.

Garold,

I spent about an hour and a half on the phone with Jake one night. He is a great guy and really knows his stuff. One of the things you have to weigh is that with one of Jake's kit's you are getting a pretty much brand new engine. With any Porsche engine you buy, as is the case with your engine, you have a used engine. The Porsche engine is also heavier and a bit more expensive to work on. At some point, it will require a rebuild which isn't cheap.

I was looking at Jake's 2563 kit. The kit ran about $7-9k. Add a Tangerine exhaust with it and assorted whatnots to get it built and installed and you're in at about $10-$12. Well worth it and an outstanding option. You could do a McMark motor for about $5k and have a brand new 4 in there with around 125hp. Another excellent option.

I was totally against a 6 when I bought my car. I bought it with the intention of doing a suby swap. Then as I began restoring it, I decided I wanted to keep it a bit more stock and yet get more hp out of it. I then turned to Jake.

From there, I decided that if I was going to put $10k into a motor, I was going to go with a 6. From the estimates I have seen, the conversion parts run about $4k. YMMV. Certainly things like engine tin and the throttle linkage can be had for less from guys like Root Werks here. A 3.2 motor like I am considering is around $5k.

So, in the end do you want a brand new 200hp 4 for your $10k or do you want a used Porsche 6 for your $10k?

If it were me and I were situated in your shoes, if you do not want to restore that 911, I would part it out and, assuming that 2.7 is good, buy the conversion parts, install it in your 914 and never look back. You're half way there already.

I should add that my wife thinks I'm losing it. "I thought you were going to do a subuaru?" "I was."

"I thought you were going to rebuild your motor?" "I was."

"I thought you didn't want to futz with a Porsche motor. I thought they were expensive." "I didn't and they are." "But, what does rationality have to do with sportscars?"

Installinga six is a new adventure, were as if you like the type 4, here is a good reason to.

porsche parade results 07


Sorry not much help, good luck with your decision. OH 3.2 the 2.7 will need work.

I think some of your numbers are high and some low, I am going thru a /6 conversion and I'm trying to save money as I go. I recently purchased Weber 40's for 810.00 as an example. If you do the work yourself you save big. Don 't forget chassis stiffening and brake upgrades. I'm hoping to do mine for 10,000.00 and that includes the purchase price of the rolling chassis and the 3.0 I picked up for 3000.00. We'll see.

Garold, some of your numbers are high....however you have a donor car (of which you got cheap). These cars can be worth more in parts then whole. I bought an 84 carrera and parted it out (kept engine, tranny, gauges, brakes, axles, front end) and with the money I made my conversion was free. This, of course, doesn't count the year of labor it took tearing it apart, boxing things up and shipping them out. Was a fun adventure tearing a car down to it's shell though!

My big purchase items were GHL stainless headers with heat (about 1500), new GHL stainless muffler bought off pelican (150), DWdesign tanks and stuff (about 1000), RJ mount (bought it on ebay about 400), engine tin (300), misc stuff got from GPR (oil lines, clutch conv kit, gaskets, brake lines etc (1000).

Thanks for the input guys. I'm still in the $$ research phase right now. For the record I will NEVER sell my 914, but I would sell the 944 and part the 911 to have enough $$$ to buy a /6 conversion already done. And that might still be an option, I keep eyeballing the 74 bumble bee at camp.

The wife is cool with whatever I decide to do. I have two Porsches now, so it doesn't matter if they are both 914's You can never have to many right

I agree... Mine is for sale!

Care to trade a 88 944 NA with 67K miles and a complete 74 911

The total of the prices is close since you have to budget for shipping fees. For a Six besides the clutch/flywheel, you'll need the engine oil lines to and from the tank and maybe adapters, the 6 oil cooler or modified cooler, 6 bell crank linkage or 6 throttle cable.

A post of this flavor is never beneficial to anyone, nothing comes from it except drama.

If you desire info on a MassIVe 4 you can attain that on my forums or you can schedule a time to chat with me directly.

I will say that there are sub systems required with the /4 that many don't mention that do cost money over the kits- I WILL go over these realistic costs with you if we ever get to the phone consultation process.

Jake, I have been on your site and I think I have some idea of what it MIGHT cost for 2270. I started this thread to try and help me better understand ALL of the costs of parts for doing a /6 conversion.

If you ask me now I like the idea of a big 4, but two hours ago I liked the /6 better. So basically I don't know what I want, yet.

So my options are:

1) go big 4

2) do a /6 conversion

or

3) sell my 944, part the 911 and buy a /6 conversion that is already done.

I have time to decided, so for now I will part the 911 except for the parts I might need for a conversion. Once that is done and I see how much $$ that brings in I will then sell the 944. If that can get me close to completed /6 conversion (aka Rob's car, if still available) then I might just go ahead and buy one and sell off the rest of 911 stuff.

Bottom line, money does factor into what I decide to do.

So how is that for being wishy washy

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=321

Follow that link, select the engine you want and add up the options. My things are now becoming standardized more and more as the development supports it.

That should answer all the "engine" questions... The subsystems are what we can go over.

You could sell the 944,914, & 911 and throw in the 10K and buy a real nice factory
6 and not look back and it will retain it's value over all the other options...

4 or 6…

Isn’t this usually a decision of the heart and not of the mind?