I haven't been on one of my diatribes for months. It's time!
I'm a 34 year PCA memeber. Hyper active for the first 22 years - slouch since then.

Won't go into all the things I did during the early years, but suffice it to say that I was a "player' on a regional & national level for abunch of years. Unfortunately, all of my contacts seem to have also burned out or died. So, now that I'm re-interested, at least from a concours standpoint, what can I do to get these idiotic concours rules simplified?!

I contacted 2 of the PCR Committe members about the rules (no names used here). One had no idea & the other gave me a snobbish response indicating that all proposals would be "taken under advisement", though the current PCR's were deemed to work "perfectly for the masses". Well, I think tha's crap! Not only are the current PCR's scaring away potential participants, but they're nebulus, create too many "feel good" classes, consume huge amounts of judging time, and are a detriment to classic/vintage owners. Take a look at them & try to figure which class you belong to - many of you, like me, will not fit into any class specifically, so you'll have to rely on "someone" to determine where you fit. Which, of course could be overturned at the last moment. In essence, tough to prepare for.

So, my plan is to canvass other similar forums (356, 911,912, 924,etc) to get a pulse on the feelings of those groups. Of course, the World is a part of this & your input is even more important. Once I have a feel for the others, I'll need to come up with the ultimate PCA PCR person to vent on. If anyone knows who that is these days, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

This is how I ("I") would be most happy with the classification & judging....of ALL Porsches at a Parade (I realize that this is open for debate & am happy to debate).

All models(except historical):

Full Concours. 80% of total area potential points for cleanliness, 20% of area potential points associated with originality (in all forms). In all case the bottom of the car is scrutinized under the same criteria. You enter this class, you're saying you're the best. No crying, no whinning. I'm open to COA presentations.

Topside Concours. Same as Full, but the bottom isn't judged. All other criteria inchanged. By the bottom, I mean the undercarriage north & south of the wheel arches, as well as the engine transmission bottoms are not judged. In essance, a driver's class.

Race/Modified. Same as Full, except no deducts for originality (& the potential total points are lowered, so as to exclude it from class/division win). Bottom is judged for cleanliness - if you're a racer, you're bottom will be as slick as a Full car, because ounces = lost speed.

Historic. Factory & Factory supported/condoned cars. No judging - entrants do this by vote.

Lastly, bring back the Manhattan Award for Best in Show. Strictly the realm of the judges and scores. Highest score wins. If the owner has preserved a Porsche to 99% perfection, or if some has restored a Porsche to 99% perfection - the highest score wins. Yeah, I know, money talks. There have been Manhattan Award (now-defunt) winners who've "bought" the win by spending the most to get there. So what! The won. Thier score dictates they should win. If you want it badly enough - go for it! They did away with this award because of whiners! The Best is the Best - I don't care what you did to get there (do I sound like a Capitalist? I am!).

So, those are my classifications. If anyone wants to see my template for judging forms, LMK. I'm open to any & all discussion on my classifications/standards. The key term here is reduction of nebulism (is that a term?) and fairness to all. I've judged Parades before under the old rules & can only imagine what a nightmare it is today - everyone else is enjoying the second half of the day & you're still trudging away. Wouldn't want to be the last car judged in any class.

I'm off on my quest!
Pat

I'd rather take the approach that it is easier to make changes to existing classifications than to implement an completely new set.

What I see missing is a classification for those who have modified their vehicles to the point where it would take them out of the Preservation Group. Call it Resto/Mod if you will, it would be judged the same as the Preparation class (which currently is limited to current production cars and 10 years back). Or alternately, remove the production year limitation.

I would go one step further and offer both a Full and Touring split in all the groups. In the event that insufficient number of Full entrants are not present, the entrants are reclassed to Touring and judged as such (rather than the other way around).

Pat,
If you want to contact a key PCA member to communicate your opinions, the Pano lists an individual who seems to head up the PCR committee. You can find it under; "Any Questions/Porsche Parades/Parade Competition/Rules". One individual has his phone number and e-mail listed. They invite your "input". Try him. Ask where and how often (if at all) they meet.
Don

Don,

I tries that 2 months ago. Pretty much told the were happy with things as the are.

What i want to know is, who're the movers & shakers. As you all know, I'm not afraid of making waves.
Pat

Hi Pat,

This is your buddy Tom asking you to give it up. It's not worth the hazzle, just pick a concourse class to compete in, do what you do best in preperation and have fun. Your trying to change 1 or 2 key people's minds and it can't be done. All PCA people are hobby people doing this for enjoyment and socializing. The people in charge don't want change & your just going to upset yourself trying.
If you don't listen to me, I'll understand. but remember I warned you.

Tom

Tom,

I hear what you're saying, but I won't give it up until I feel that it's a lost cause. There are too many of us out there who have preserved our 914's and, because we don't drive them enough to "please" the judges, don't really have much hope of doing well at something we've done for years.

The system used to be so simple, yet someone (and I know who that was) ramrodded these current rules through during the mid-90's. Unfortunately, after having chaired the '93 Parade Concours I was too burned out to try to do anything about it.

What burns me the most about the current rules is the idea that a carefully preserved car is snubbed if it isn't a daily driver. All a judge has to do is wite "not driven enough" in the judging forms & you're toast. I have almost 68k miles on mine, but it won't be nearly enough. No, I won't "adjust" the odo

Gotta try something. If you don't ask, you'll never get.
Pat

Hmm, is this more of a harangue or a diatribe? Or are they the same.

Anyway, I'll probably never enter a real concours (not enough patience with the Q-tips) and my beauty has so many tiny warts and blemishes I'd feel out of the running from the getgo.

BUT I did read that the two (three?) time winner of the Manhattan trophy was sold, so maybe they could bring it back. Sure would suck a few contestants out of the regular running, no?

And I'm glad it WASN'T me changing the rules in the 90's. I wasn't even driving a 914 then!

Paul

Biz,

You may not realize it, but you're in the drivers' seat with the current rules!

Warts are good. In fact, I would guess that visible rust is good if you have enough miles on the car.

Look, we ALL have warts (well, of the automotive type). Those are NOT the things that should scare someone away from competing! It's the judges that scare people away, when it comes to saying "you don't drive your 914 enough". What the hell does that have to do with concours?

By MY definition, a concours should be a gathering of similar cars, class based & regardless of marque, to judge the relative merits of each as to the methods of original construction and condition. Yes, with age, the cars will develope "warts". To a point, this is character. Originality should way heavily, but once extreme use takes over, restoration (to original condition) should be considered favorable (as a method of "preserving" the car).

That's why I think the current system is detrimental (PCA only). "Oh, you don't drive your car enough" - how judgemental can you get? And what the hell does that have to do with the condition of the car? The judges COULD say "well, you've not driven your car enough to get the wear & tear of the others". What?! Show me a 35 year old (presentable) car that hasn't had all or most rubber pieces replaced, to say the least. It isn't realistic. Your 914 is one of the best, but I'll bet you've replaced some rubber pieces (come on now, admit it).

So, this is how I want to see it:

1. You show up & decide whether you want to be judged completely (full concours), or everything except the underside (touring/topside - whatever you wish to call it). If you elect to NOT have the underside judged, you can still qualify for the class & division wins by electing to have it judged later.
2. Restored and preserved cars are judged the same. Most people who restore a car stop at the visibles. If you don't prepare your 914 to BEAT the restored cars, that's your loss - because it has been done many times (I did it once).
3. 914/4s & sixes compete together. Believe me, you can hide a lot more dirt in a six than on a four. But, at this stage of life, they should be considered equals for concours.
4. This will be the killer, though it was done this way for many years. The judges are permitted to touch. That's right, they can search for dirt/grease/grime & rate it on how recent it is. Last time I judged a Parade concours I went through 6 or seven clean clothes. If it was recent grime I let it slide. If it was caked - gig!
5. Judging forms! There are no penalties for "under driving". You have a base of points available for each area. x% is associated with cleanliness & preparation (of the base), while X% is associated with originality - finish, proper color, etc). Simple as that. Yes, extraordinary restorations will have an upper hand, but they CAN be beaten. And, this system is far more reasonable for cars that have been preserved.

Check this out & think about it http://www.autoatlanta.com/Life/sgconcours.html

Pat

Pat- that AA page pretty much settles it for me- I'm going resto, not preservation. Since Knikki has never been restored, only maintained & repainted, I figure it's my best shot at some recognition. There is no way I'm turning my Dads time capsule into a daily driver.

Al,

Understand! Thinking about the same thing ......except. Restoration in the PCR's has nothing to do with "proper" restoration! For example, let's take Orthobiz's 914. If he were to "spare no expense" "restore" it, with Porsche's gold paint of the early years, it would be acceptable for that class (he could probably paint it pink & it would be acceptable).

This is my point - for those who have truely "preserved" thier 914's, we're left out in the cold - unless we drive the piss out of them & get them all scarred up.

That's why I want the rules changed!
Pat