Bringing Out The Dead.....or how to restore a rusty 914 and convert it to a street/track car when I have time after dealing with everyone elses stuff.

My background is collision and restoration (day job) of high end automobiles for 28 years in addition to race fabrication. I jumped the fence and left that industry to pursue pretty much the same thing except on the paperwork end which is really boring and thankless. (another day job)

I look at rust like a diamond in the rough. Rust is afraid of me because it know's it cannot live in my world. Metal becomes submissive because I have confidence in my metal working talents. I will add to this post as work progress's.

I hope my years of experience can help others as I add. I believe there is a right way to repair a car and wrong way. I metal finish because in the end its cleaner, lighter and stronger. I was taught old school techniques with new school technology. A great combination. I also believe in doing a job once correctly using the highest quality materials and proper tools. Many ways to skin a cat I say. If you hold it by the tail it can still bite!

Good advice to follow:
Take measurements of the door openings and targa bar to windshield header. Cross measure then do it again to confirm. Recheck your measurements against the factory figures. Make a couple of adjustable braces for each side that attach from the upper seat belt anchors to the door hinges. I recommend cross braces also right to left. These can be made from rod or tube and turnbuckles for cheap. Racer Chris has some really nice ones with rod ends. Support the car from below equally on both sides of the undercarriage and front and rear. I do not believe jack stands can hold the proper tolerances at 4 points. It takes a minimum of 6 and preferably 8. These are all easy to do and are essential to a square and level chassis. Not everyone can afford a Cellete bench or hourly frame time at a shop for these type of do it yourself repairs. Impovisation can be done correctly and for a lot less money. Make sure your floor or platform is level.

Keep in mind that tolerances for the 914 were 7-9mm from the factory so anything you can do to make it better is worth it. 7mm by today’s standards is huge. 9mm is a Grand Canyon. Anything you can do to tighten the tolerances will provide a better end product. Exterior panels were fit with the adjust and weld method and are only a skin.

My 914 had measurements all over the place on the front end and the rust issues were all in the rear that needed correction. Car was never in any collisions.
90% of the measurements were factory assembly tolerances. Porsche's aint perfect.

I made my own dedicated bench for 911's and 914's. By some stroke of luck I ended up with a 1 mm variance in height (datum) and 2mm in length and width is zero with my own fixtures. This has been substantiated with endless anal cross measuring and factory manuals. I used a steel front suspension cross member as a front body holding fixture. I went through 4 before I found an acceptable one. The first 3 were so far off factory tolerances (4-6 mm out of square) I rejected them before I found a good one.

My bench is not for pulling. It was designed for assembly and replacement of structural parts. It will support 3,000 pounds. $350 worth of steel and another $175 in industrial castors was worth it considering its use. A stripped 914 shell is a feather and easy to roll around. When you cut and replace structural parts recheck your measurements. Control points change when you remove, replace and weld in new parts. They are easily controlled with patience.

If it does not come out perfect do not lose sleep. Remember tolerance and variance was not perfect from the factory. If you have a control point locating hole that is 14 mm a dowel or pin of 9-10mm was used during birth. That is why suspension systems are adjustable for variance and wear. You will also find center indexing points on the front and rear of the body. Easy tools to use are plumb lines, tape measures and levels if you do not have access to high end measuring equipment. You can locate and make symmetrical measurements throughout repairs. If you have one side that is undamaged or not rusted use that side as a starting point for measurements. Use panel gaps as a visual indicator during repairs and welding.

3 important factors- height, length and width. If you are me then there are 4 (Z axis) and that one will make you lose sleep!

Some pics of the beggining: A back east 914 comes to California.

Contd

Rear floor replacement. An yes the RD floors will work in a 1975 914. A little metal work in the rear corners will lay right down flat on the bumper absorber reinforcements allowing full panel replacment without clipping the rear pockets.

Wow



This'll be a fun one to watch.

And Eric I will be calling you.

Floor contd.
Damn cool welding helmet if you ask me!

Nice work, I can't wait to see more . . . and

:welcome:

Interior stripped.
Odometer? DMV say its for real and so do the prior owners receipts. (least of my concerns) Its about the fun!

Moving along into the rocker and longs. This was how car was received.

The good. Right upper wheelhouse is sound and so is the outer suspension perch.

Left rocker/ outer long. Pretty normal for an east coaster.

Right side is another story. Ugly. Outer is shot. Corner of the floor is gone.
Inner long lower gone. Inner console has been seem welded prior due to rust and it is going to metal heaven.

Cut out the rusted outer. Actually only the rear 1/4 was bad. Since I have a replacement and need access to the inner long whole piece is getting replaced

Media blasted the inner long and only the area around 4 inches in front of the jackpost/ seatbelt anchor is bad. I will fabricate, section and sleeve that in back to behind the firewall. I have a new outer wheelhouse which provides half the box on the outside which will make that area and rearward easier to repair.

Are you the Jeff Hail of the Mulholland thread on Pelican? I've read the whole thing and follow it constantly. Best thread ever.

Nice work on your teener.

Were you part of the Mulholland crew back in the day?

Clayton

Floor metal finished and primed. No filler.
I did end up installing the entire floor as it comes from Bill at RD.
The old floor had some minor rust at the weld tracks near the rear of the structural crossmember underneath. That 4 extra inches of sheetmetal is easier to lap weld in then butt weld to dirty steel. It makes my finish work less time consuming also. I treated the inside of the crossmember and sealed that up prior to welding in the new panel. The entire trunk will be media stripped. I just threw some primer on for now until this weekend.

I will hit it will some Starblast media (DuPont), epoxy prime and then seal all the seams with Wurth Sprayable Seam Sealer for that oem look and texture.

Yours truly one and the same....

Yes- One of many groups over the years.

Keep the pctures coming.

Wow, that was some introduction. Keep the pics coming, great project!!

shhhh.
Artist at work.

Thats really impressive.

Very cool !!!

Someone should write a book.

This weeks installment of Bringing out the dead

Attacking the firewall.
This car had rust at the bottom of the lower firewall. Prior repairs included welding in plumbers tape with what looks like an arc welder of all things. Seems the floor rusted along with the firewall at the bottom seem and it was held together with "L" shaped pumbers tape or and angle iron/ shelf bracket.

I assessed the firewall at the long junction which is also prone to rust from leaks at the window and hell pit. Cut the corners out to access the inner longs which require some work anyways.

It's only metal.....

Some great tools to have are the Astro Scraper. Its like a minature air chisel except has super high speed short strokes and does not damage the surface underneath. Comes with an assortment of blades and scrapers included. They run $40. I stripped the entire floor tar pads in about 7 minutes flat.

The other tool I have and is worth it weight in gold is the Wurth Master. It is pretty much a flail with the needle brush mounted. Different wheels are for stripe and double sided tape removal but the flail wheel removes the factory seam sealer with zero effort. Everyone knows the oem seam sealers can be like concrete.
These are expensive so it pays if you know someone who has one for limited use versus purchasing one.

I am in shock that some one in CA would take on this project.
We have seen countless Less rusty cars been cut up down there. (CA.)

My Hat is off to you, Great Job.

Seam sealer stripped off the inner firewall with the Wurth Master. Leaves a clean bare metal surface.

I will say removing the wiring harness is a pain in the ass. I have come to the conclusion that the factory fed it through the tunnel and out the rear firewall without the sheath with the two big grommets that plug the firewall and front shelf. I think they installed that sheath from the back end after the loom was routed. Just my opinion.

I am actually thinking about modular-izing the loom. Wouldnt take much to do it. I have to unwrap it anyhow because I has some areas that need repair and shrink tube. I also cut a little insulation here and there doing the removal.

Must be wondering why I removed the the seam sealer on the inside of the firewall???

Thanks to Perry I have a NOS lower firewall and it will get replaced.
This is actually an early firewall but will adapt to the 75' easily with little modification. I will reinforce the e-brake and clutch and cable junctions on the inside of the panel prior to the installation. I will make it stronger than the factory did and it will all be hidden. This area is one of the 914's design flaws.

Part of my project is improving on some of the factory shortcomings. Making improvements invisible or at least less visible is the challenge.

Stay tuned!

Thanks, back at ya!
I have looked at countless 914 tubs. Very few are truly rust free. This tub cost me nothing. It has never been in a collision and the upper body is straight. It has rust issues that are all easily corrected. It is really not as bad as it looks. Time consuming yes but easily corrected. In the end I will know every square inch of this car is sound and "clean". I have seen too many so called rust free tubs that have surprises in them. I could have spent top dollar on someone else's car not knowing what went into it. Then tearing it down and starting from scratch. This car has some issues but what 914 doesnt?

Taking a step back I could have found a perfect car. Considering the modifications planned I would still have to perform sheetmetal work. This is all part of the game plan. Just a few extra steps to take. Of course it also saves another 914! (sort of)

This project isn't about time or cost. In fact I do not have that much into it. It is about the goal. I am not restoring a 914. I am building a Porsche the way the factory intended but Volkswagon got in the way. A few special "options" thrown in that were not available will be added.

The basic build plan:
Mid Engine Configuration
Short wheelbase
Under 2000 lbs
Low CG
250+ HP flat six
A car that can be street driven and tracked
A whole heap of aftermarket performance vendors at my disposal.....
A build that generates "smiles per hour"........and spanks the unsuspecting.

I considered just buying a car. The mid engine ones I want are out of my price range with the Prancing Horse emblems. I considered buying an Elise that fit my build plan but I think I can do better for less. Besides I hate English cars.

Throttle on!

You gotta have bars. Keep those gaps in check when performing any major work on the longs or floor. Even with the body fully supported from below the roof/ hinge pillars need to be kept under flex control at all times when replacing sheetmetal.

I made these to work with the doors on the car. You cannot check the door gaps while in progress without doors mounted. It makes the job easier and I know what the end product will be. Heat during welding makes metal expand and contract. Anyone who has ever replaced a rocker panel on any car (even with a full roof) knows how important this is.

If a 914 left the factory out of spec (yes they have) this is where it can be corrected. The door bars can be adjusted to put the windshield header and roll bar in perfect spec.

If it starts straight it will end up straight!

This is an original Coppertone car that was re-painted red later in its life. Its a little hard to tell rust from paint in photos.

even if you're just cutting out small patches from the pans? (say 3" by 3" tops) and no work being done on the longs

*subscribes* really interested to see the progress on the firewall repair! i have those exact holes and curious to see the fix.

question. did you remove the wiring harness? it is a pain... i sleeved mine for the time being but didnt know if it needed to be removed if i was going to be welding around it

and im also assuming you dropped the engine? for the battery tray area?

If you are quilting patches in or just repairing the floors I would not go to such an extreme as I have with a fixture and door supports. I have stripped my tub to just a shell. I have left only the glass in so little critter's do not find a place to camp out for the winter. I hate when four legged things jump out of nowhere at me.

Yes I have removed the wiring harness. If you are doing spot repairs leave the harness in or only partially remove/ pullback for any welding in the firewall/ tunnel area repairs.. I have to repair some areas of the loom anyway and I find it it my way if left in the car. Engine is out and being replaced with a six. The four cylinder mounts will disappear on the inner longs.

Very nice photo-documentary on the restoration of this vechile...

Can you show a better photo of where the bars are attached and describe how the bar is constructed?

-- Rob

That lower firewall is serious sheetmetal porn.

You da man Jeff!

The bars were constructed of 1x1 square tube 1/8 wall. I welded some turnbuckles in and attached some scrap plate on each end. The anchoring points are the upper seatbelt bolt and in front just inboard of the upper hinge on the inner hinge post below the cowl. If the car was not fully supported from below then the upper hinge would be the best location with the doors off. When I took measurements with the car fully assembled the passenger side was in spec which surprised me. The driver side was wide by another 1/8 inch.

On another note the front floors are in good shape forward of the seat crossmember.. Typical flash rust at the tunnel flanges only. Will clean up easily.
I am replacing the floor behind the crossmember because its gone at the firewall.

The lower outer firewall is out. I didn't even damage the airtubes removing the old panel. Had to cut the control tubes which will be rebuilt and modified anyway.

The lower inner firewall will need a section lapped and flanged to fit the floor. It's all flat metal- piece of cake.

Tools of the trade.

Ok....the hard work is done (hehe) Its fabrication time.

Some observations. About 1 out of every 10 resistance weld's from the factory had poor or no penetration. Also the flange that connects the lower outer firewall to the longs (between the air tube and inner long) had no welds. It was filled up with seam sealer. I'd swear this tub was assembled at the factory on a Thursday.

Some flash rust here and there but nothing too bad. A Roloc disc will remove most.

Maybe Racer Chris could donate one of his "Raised Pickup Point Kits" for this build....?

Didn't get much done with the car this week. Busy at work during the week and ended up in bed with the flu Friday night and Saturday. Feel much better except except cannot invert my head to weld due to my sinus's are loaded up. Since I am glutton for punishment and hate being stuck indoors I did some cutting and trimming today. Just felt good to get out and do something.

I added some fixtures for the outer suspension control points. Since I am getting into the rails I need to support this area.

Cut out the old right suspension console and rail (inner long) I truly have a rust free 914 now. Interesting enought these were welded from the factory with stainless wire if not TIG'd. Ate up the cut off disc's really fast.

You guys must be thinking I am nuts? No just on a mission.

I could have repaired and sectioned the right inner rail. Would have been a lot of work considering how rusted the lower and inner were so I decided to order the rail from AA. The corrugations would have been challenging to reproduce and would have required a lot of cuts and scab metal. Since the 4 cyl mounts are going by-by and the rail will be exposed I said what the "F"? You only live once. The AA part is going to require some fitting. It is rough but the quality is good. I will still reproduce the double wall as the factory did.

The body did not move at all when the rail was cut out. The 914 chassis is still pretty stiff in design when it is just a shell.

The outer wheelhouse metal is sound. I was surpised that no rust was found at the lower rail area other than flash rust inside the box area. Still solid.

One observation was apparent. The rust issue on 914's is not just from battery acid. The area's below the hellhole are prone to rust because they are also high flex area's. The area's like the hell hole and just behind the seats at the firewall go from very stiffly reinforced structure to single layer metal. This is a flexible area and the paint/ coatings tend to not flex over the cars life and lift exposing the metal to acid, water etc. I have seen many 914's that are sealed better than others. I to this day cannot figure out why they didn't angle the hellhole shelf to drain better than make it flat like a holding pond?

Jeff- nice work, just figured out that you were the same jeff that posted in my thread! Those underbody jigs are nice . . . wish I had them. I may have to pick your brain at some point to figure out a way to line up the front suspension points on my 914. It was in an accident and the drivers quarter (and then some) was replaced right up to the suspension mounting point. It has to have been knocked out of alignment, if not by the accident, then certainly by the (poor) welding.

Keep up the good work!

-Chris

Chris,
My 914 has had the right rear suspension console repaired in it's life. It has gobs of welding on the right side. It looked as if it had one of Racer Chris's ear reinforcements installed. It was never treated for corrosion so it rusted out badly. A big 3 inch washer had been welded in to gain some life on the inner ear. It was pretty bad. A dust pan full of rust came out when I cut the console off. It's getting lighter by the day!

Before any cutting I took some measurements. All 914's seems to have some variance at the suspension mounting area's in as much as 1/2 inch measured center to each side. I measured from the center hole at the upper firewall just above the lower firewall seam to the inner console bolt hole. Considering how much rot the right rear console had no sag was found and was equal side to side. The measurement was 28-1/4 from the firewall hole to the front edge of the console bolt hole. I prefer center to center hole measurements but the right console was so far gone I couldnt rely on it. Side to side from inner console to inner console was 33-1/2 from outside to outside on the bolt hole.

I have some measurements from 914World, Pelican and an old Mitchell book. I have still been trying to locate datum (height) measurements to no avail. A this point I am not worried as my car still has consistency side to side. The jigs are a plus as it provides support and a reference point for location with no flex. The body is so light stripped nothing moves.

My front suspension control points were not perfect from the factory. The forward bracket on the body that locate's the front suspension crossmember was about an 1/8 to far back on the right side. The bracket on the suspension crossmember has slotted holes that go to the rear mount so it still fits without binding. A lot of caster and camber adjustment is available on the strut tower it probably doesnt make much difference but I decided to remove and reweld the bracket where it should have been for proper Steering Axis Inclination. My car has not had any structural damage from collision which is a plus but the rust work is plenty to keep me busy.

Great work Jeff.... great when you get to say... "hey I did it myself"

Jeff-

Thanks for the info. I've tried using the pics on this site before but they are so blurry that it is sometimes tough to figure out what is what. I have plenty to contend with in the rear first before I start worrying about the front again though . . .

-Chris

A couple of hours to play today.

Cut the old inner long to prepare for the replacement section at the rear. Measure correctly because you only get one chance. If you cut long you get two chances. If you cut it too short consider eating out.

Perfect cut!
Here are some mock up's of the new panel being held in with Visegrips. Just double checking the fit and then I ran out of daylight.


I use a piece of angle bar stock or anything flat and stiff to backup the old and new panel. This way I know both are level during fitting. When I go to weld I will place bars on all 3 sides of the panel to make sure it is square.

Rust is a crafty beast. If you can see rust you are only seeing the surface. My rule of thumb has always been you only see 10-20% on the outside. 914's rust from the inside and this is a perfect example. This is the old rear inner long that was cut out. The airtube area is rusted and was destroyed during removal.

From the outside all you see is the perforation down by the floor. On the inside its history. Unless you remove the outer longs you will never know how bad it really is inside. I guess this area can be referred to as south of hell. It's only metal!!!!!!!!!!

I mentioned the other day double walled panels. This is one of them. I traced the second layer with a Sharpie to show where it starts and stops. This is where the lower wheelhouse comes together with the inner long. It is a entirely separate plate from the long and wheelhouse. You will also notice it has a radius to it. The radius is to allow some flex in the panel without making it to rigid.

If panel connections are in a high flex zone they need to be able to move by design. If they do not flex you end up with metal fatigue. A secondary purpose is to reinforce the seatbelt anchor area from pulling out in a collision. Imagine a 200lb man going from 65mph to 0 in 10ths of a second. That is a lot of energy focused on a tiny bolt anchor in a very short time. Cheap insurance. In the back of my mind I think Karmann knew this area was prone to corrosion so they added a little more metal down to the anchor mount.


Manufacturers use double walls for a reason. Stressed area's, panel intersections and joints. I will fab the extra layer and add it in later. Notice the seatbelt anchor is located in this strengthened area and it is ready to fall out now from the rust damage.

The rear corner of the inner long connects to the inner lower firewall. This area makes up a portion of what is called a torque box. It is one of the strongest area's of the vehicle. It is in this lower area from side to side when all panels are tied together to the center tunnel it forms a structure. Do not compromise here. Do not take shortcuts.

A mock up shot from underneath.

An important note I would like to mention: "Inserts and sleeves"The focus here is on the 914 but apply's to any car. More so one without a fixed roof!

Whenever you make a butt welded joint whether on a rocker panel, A-pillar, center post or quarter panel/ sail panel and hinge pillars you have to make a sleeve or an insert and it needs to be properly sized and welded. This would not apply to butt welded flairs and cosmetic items.

Any area that is a stressed panel as noted above and butt welded will most likely fail if not sleeved. It may not fail from normal use but you do not want to find out in a collision. Everyone has heard the term "clipped". This is when a car is cut in half and welded back together. You do not see this practice much anymore and I would like to not see it at all. I have seen post collision failure because sleeves were not incorporated and it is ugly at least.

A sleeve or an insert is a reinforcement shaped just like the two panels being joined. This can be 3 or 4 sided when say sectioning a rocker panel. Imagine the arm of a long sleeve shirt inside a snug fitting long sleeved sweatshirt. A perfect teaching example using this principle would be it makes thinks stiff. Everyone knows it restricts movement most of the time.

It does the same thing with metal. Sleeves and inserts can be made from a piece of an old damaged part or the replacement panel if enough is left over.

The reason sleeves and inserts are used are:
It provides a backing for the Mig welded butt joint.
Keeps burn through to a minimum.
Ensures a completely closed joint.
Aligns the part's for the best fit possible.

Making a sleeve or insert:
Should be twice the width of the cross section. For example the 914 has an inner long that is approx 3-1/4 inches wide (thick without the outer long). The sleeve should be 6-1/2 inches long. It should also be equal in thickness to the parent metal it is being welded to. Plug weld's would be used to weld the sleeve to thin sheetmetal. The butt weld and plug welds should not overlap into each other's heat zone.

If you haven't got this by now then another easily understood example would be the Engman Long Kit. The exeption here is the Engman Kit covers the entire long and cross section on one side versus bridging two panels welded end to end.

very nice! you have some skillz, sir ...


Andy

We always can use tutorials with pics. Here is a cross section of the inner long and floor joints. The floor connects about half way across the inner long. The factory used a sealer that looks like a ribbon of Pigeon poop. Lumpy acoustic ceiling stuff in appearance and looks just like the 911 poop ribbon used.

Another inch and half of seam sealer and the bean counters would have lost sleep. Another inch and half of seam sealer and half the rust threads would be non existant!

Funny thing think of todays new car warranties on outer body rust through. If you have seen how cars are now sealed and the generous use of corrosion products that look like they were applied by a firehose. You have to wonder why they didn't protect cars like the 914 especially since the were produced in Europe of all places? Lets not go there. It was the bean counters.....you can bet on it.

Jeff-

Seriously nice work, thanks for the info too. Definitely way nicer than my repairs, feel free to comment on anything I have done. I certainly don't think I will be finding any faults with your work!

-Chris

Don't you love it when you are making a new post and the site goes down. Damn right in the middle....

Fabricated a sleeve out of 18 guage steel for the inner long.

Fit sleeve to new long section and old front long.

Drill a bunch of holes for plug welds. Apply a light coat of weld thru primer.

Start tacking..... uh oh running out of C02/ Argon and daylight.
This is supposed to be sunny California! I only get 2 hours of daylight after my day job. This doesn't fly with me!

Oh well. Saturday I will burn some more metal......

A little progress anyways.

Still a perfect door gap!

Jeff:

Is there a source for the horizontal and vertical dimensions (over a level plane) for the various support points under the chassis?

I have a 73 with a good motor and trans, with hell hole problems that I would like to take a crack at repairing. But down here in New Orleans, there aren't any "good" 914's that I could borrow to try and get the correct measurements.

I was thinking about building a jig from 2x10's and 4x4's, bolted and cross braced to hold against warping, and using 1/2" or 5/8" bolts for anchors and resting points. I would use a laser to true everything up.

Second hand wood is more than plentiful around here because of all of the demolition going on, so it would cost me very little to build, maybe $25 bucks for the bolts and lags.

But I need to find out the dimensions for the mount points.

It won't be as pretty as yours, but I think it would do the trick.

David, our very own site has this information. It's under '914 info', body dimensions...

Here's the link.

-- Rob

Underbody dimensions are very hard to find for the 914. I think you can still get them from Tru-Way on CD. Fortunatly the 914 has a symetrical body meaning center -side to side can be done by cross measuring. Datum measurements (from a flat plane) for height are easy if the body is stripped. By 1970's standards the 914 platform is considered stiff when the roof is bolted on. The dimensions found on this site are 90% upper body and I they will get you where you need to be. For the underbody it is really simple. A 914 is essentially just a sheetmetal box and it has a flat bottom.

You could make a platform from wood 4x4s but it will change dimension with heat and humidity. Probably not enough to loose sleep over.

If you have good jack pads that aren't damaged you can use the 4 locations under the tub to build your foundation. Unless you are cutting out major structural parts you should not get into trouble. If you are just repairing and replacing parts all you need is to support the body equally.

If you have an extra eighty grand you can get one of these (kidding)