so,
i know a lot of people on here must be running carbs with stock a stock cam. everyone knows about Dr. 914's advice about putting a carb on your engine.
i've posted on here before that i'm thinking about moving my 1.8L to a FI setup from the POS carb that's on there now. reason being i don't want to ruin my engine as i need it to keep chugging (around 92k on there now) for another 3 years until i'm out of school. However, this is going to be quite an undertaking in that i will have to remove the gas tank, fuel lines, find wires that have been cut from the exit on the firewall, as well as install the FI system having zero experience.
right now (i'm a student spending my savings) i just want reliability. If i put a single (appropriate sized...what is the appropriate size?)carb on the car am i still risking wearing out my engine "twice as fast"? i feel like a single weber would be a plug and play option and allow me to save a little $ and a lot of time in the installation. again, performance is not my main goal here.
i have access to a garage and the full gambit of tools, ijust don't know if i want to spend the time and headache installing an FI system (although i do love working on the car). i feel like i might be getting in over my head especially because there isn't anyone in the immediate area to turn to if things head south.
thus far the work i've completed on the car is minimal:
adjusted valves
switched tranny mounts
switched alternator and harness
installed heating system
that's pretty much my experience, period.
whaddya think?
your opinions are appreciated.
Full Version: looking for truth about carbs...
I can't see how a "carb will ruin an engine". The only problem I can see is on cold startup or if the carb is improperly adjusted creating a really rich mixture which can wash the lubrication off the cylinder walls or improperly adjusted and running lean.
That said, I am an FI guy. I will keep FI until I can't get parts (translated - can't afford them or they go NLA).
If the FI system is in good order when removed, fitting it to an engine is not that great of a task.
That said, I am an FI guy. I will keep FI until I can't get parts (translated - can't afford them or they go NLA).
If the FI system is in good order when removed, fitting it to an engine is not that great of a task.
slits,
i agree completely, i feel like the correctly sized carb which isn't putting too much fuel into the cylinders should be fine. albeit, not quite as efficient as FI.
once i get the system installed, the L-tronic is timed from the points on the dizzy right? so "timing" would be unaffected?
maybe i should just go for it. all said though:
$300 for the system (found a used one from a trusted source)
? for new fuel lines
? for all new hoses
what do you think ballpark price would be for upgrading my beloved little money pit
I can't see how a "carb will ruin an engine". The only problem I can see is on cold startup or if the carb is improperly adjusted creating a really rich mixture which can wash the lubrication off the cylinder walls or improperly adjusted and running lean.
That said, I am an FI guy. I will keep FI until I can't get parts (translated - can't afford them or they go NLA).
If the FI system is in good order when removed, fitting it to an engine is not that great of a task.
i agree completely, i feel like the correctly sized carb which isn't putting too much fuel into the cylinders should be fine. albeit, not quite as efficient as FI.
once i get the system installed, the L-tronic is timed from the points on the dizzy right? so "timing" would be unaffected?
maybe i should just go for it. all said though:
$300 for the system (found a used one from a trusted source)
? for new fuel lines
? for all new hoses
what do you think ballpark price would be for upgrading my beloved little money pit
QUOTE(SLITS @ Oct 4 2007, 03:59 PM) 
I can't see how a "carb will ruin an engine". The only problem I can see is on cold startup or if the carb is improperly adjusted creating a really rich mixture which can wash the lubrication off the cylinder walls or improperly adjusted and running lean.
That said, I am an FI guy. I will keep FI until I can't get parts (translated - can't afford them or they go NLA).
If the FI system is in good order when removed, fitting it to an engine is not that great of a task.
If you depend on the car for transportation, and your time is spent (should be anyway) doing schoolwork, maybe you should just stick with the POS you have. Maybe rebuild it- thats a Saturday afternoon job, but I'll bet your car would not be viable for a few weeks if you decide to reinstall the FI.
well the carb on this thing (as i've been told) is for a pinto, the only problems with it are a high idle, but i'm worried that it's going to develop into something else. further, with the cold months coming, i'm worried about it starting reliably.
i guess it's six in one hand half dozen in the other...
If you depend on the car for transportation, and your time is spent (should be anyway) doing schoolwork, maybe you should just stick with the POS you have. Maybe rebuild it- thats a Saturday afternoon job, but I'll bet your car would not be viable for a few weeks if you decide to reinstall the FI.
i guess it's six in one hand half dozen in the other...
QUOTE(SGB @ Oct 4 2007, 04:20 PM)
If you depend on the car for transportation, and your time is spent (should be anyway) doing schoolwork, maybe you should just stick with the POS you have. Maybe rebuild it- thats a Saturday afternoon job, but I'll bet your car would not be viable for a few weeks if you decide to reinstall the FI.
When tuned properly the stock FI systems on our cars are very reliable.
That being said, you need new or known good used quality parts. It's when components start to fail or you do not perform regular maintenence that the system runs poorly.
You'll see an improvement over that single carb, which is the worst thing you can put on that engine; and that's been said many times.
As for injection systems... Stock L-Jet is very reliable with parts abundant and inexpensive in comparison to D-Jet. There's also programmable systems such as Megasquirt or Minisquirt, SDS and Weber Redline.
Do your research before choosing a system.
That being said, you need new or known good used quality parts. It's when components start to fail or you do not perform regular maintenence that the system runs poorly.
You'll see an improvement over that single carb, which is the worst thing you can put on that engine; and that's been said many times.
As for injection systems... Stock L-Jet is very reliable with parts abundant and inexpensive in comparison to D-Jet. There's also programmable systems such as Megasquirt or Minisquirt, SDS and Weber Redline.
Do your research before choosing a system.
I'll bet if you put a WTB ad for a progressive weber, you can get one cheap. You may also get some criticism, but it should be better than a Pinto carb.
awesome,
thanks for the input, ill look into those, i was under the impression that the L-jet stuff is actually harder to come by than the D-jet...seems there is some difference of opinion on that. i have a "complete" system for $100 if anyone is interested.
thanks everyone.
When tuned properly the stock FI systems on our cars are very reliable.
That being said, you need new or known good used quality parts. It's when components start to fail or you do not perform regular maintenence that the system runs poorly.
You'll see an improvement over that single carb, which is the worst thing you can put on that engine; and that's been said many times.
As for injection systems... Stock L-Jet is very reliable with parts abundant and inexpensive in comparison to D-Jet. There's also programmable systems such as Megasquirt or Minisquirt, SDS and Weber Redline.
Do your research before choosing a system.
thanks for the input, ill look into those, i was under the impression that the L-jet stuff is actually harder to come by than the D-jet...seems there is some difference of opinion on that. i have a "complete" system for $100 if anyone is interested.
thanks everyone.
QUOTE(Brando @ Oct 4 2007, 04:42 PM)
When tuned properly the stock FI systems on our cars are very reliable.
That being said, you need new or known good used quality parts. It's when components start to fail or you do not perform regular maintenence that the system runs poorly.
You'll see an improvement over that single carb, which is the worst thing you can put on that engine; and that's been said many times.
As for injection systems... Stock L-Jet is very reliable with parts abundant and inexpensive in comparison to D-Jet. There's also programmable systems such as Megasquirt or Minisquirt, SDS and Weber Redline.
Do your research before choosing a system.
Yes the single carb system is a POS, but if rebuilt ($50.00 ???) it will work.
Adjusted correctly, as others have said, I don't see why it would not last three
years. Proper maintenance and not beating it will help with that goal.
Adjusted correctly, as others have said, I don't see why it would not last three
years. Proper maintenance and not beating it will help with that goal.
QUOTE(SGB @ Oct 4 2007, 01:48 PM)
I'll bet if you put a WTB ad for a progressive weber, you can get one cheap. You may also get some criticism, but it should be better than a Pinto carb.
What we know as a "Progressive Weber" IS a "Pinto carb". The Cap'n
say the word bro and i'll have my weber progressive on your doorstep before you can say stromberg 
I am going to put dual webers on my car whose engine is in worse shape than yours. My car starts at the first push of my big red button, it's running before my finger engages the switch all the way even, that weber DGEV with electric choke gets it running. it had a high idle until i timed the engine, now it's great
say the word my man, i've got the 4 bolt intake runners you need too, since i have 1.7 heads on a 2.0L engine
once I get my carbs, I'm giving the progressive away for the cost of shipping, and I'm NOT bullshitting
I am going to put dual webers on my car whose engine is in worse shape than yours. My car starts at the first push of my big red button, it's running before my finger engages the switch all the way even, that weber DGEV with electric choke gets it running. it had a high idle until i timed the engine, now it's great
say the word my man, i've got the 4 bolt intake runners you need too, since i have 1.7 heads on a 2.0L engine
once I get my carbs, I'm giving the progressive away for the cost of shipping, and I'm NOT bullshitting
Unless the PO removed the lines, there should be no reason to change them, but the SS ones are real nice and safe.
What I have noticed on the '75 / '76 cars is that the fuel lines were no longer the clear plastic but the black plastic that appears to be like the high pressure lines used on CIS sixes. The consideration is that if the fuel pump is mounted in the front, the feed line to the injectors is under pressure. The return line sees little or no pressure.
Ok, to change over ...
1.) You would need an FI pump ... early styles (to '74) = expensive. Later style ('75-'76) are a bit more "reasonable".
2.) You would need the complete L-Jet setup (minus the emissions stuff hopefully depending upon the laws in your state). This means ... air filter assembly with vane air flow controller, fuel rails, injectors, pressure regulator, throttle body w/ throttle switch, throttle body mount, plenum, rubber vane airflow meter to throttle body hose, harness, resistor pack, brain, intake runners and correct distributor. There are no trigger points in L-Jet .... the brain is the injector timing device.
3.) All of it is bolt on and could be done in one day IF all the components are functional.
4.) L-Jet really hates vacuum leaks and won't run well if any exist.
If your carb is exhibitiing a high idle, it is either mal-adjusted or you have vacuum leaks somewhere (boots on runners, runner/head interface, carb mounting gasket, etc.
Others opinions may vary
What I have noticed on the '75 / '76 cars is that the fuel lines were no longer the clear plastic but the black plastic that appears to be like the high pressure lines used on CIS sixes. The consideration is that if the fuel pump is mounted in the front, the feed line to the injectors is under pressure. The return line sees little or no pressure.
Ok, to change over ...
1.) You would need an FI pump ... early styles (to '74) = expensive. Later style ('75-'76) are a bit more "reasonable".
2.) You would need the complete L-Jet setup (minus the emissions stuff hopefully depending upon the laws in your state). This means ... air filter assembly with vane air flow controller, fuel rails, injectors, pressure regulator, throttle body w/ throttle switch, throttle body mount, plenum, rubber vane airflow meter to throttle body hose, harness, resistor pack, brain, intake runners and correct distributor. There are no trigger points in L-Jet .... the brain is the injector timing device.
3.) All of it is bolt on and could be done in one day IF all the components are functional.
4.) L-Jet really hates vacuum leaks and won't run well if any exist.
If your carb is exhibitiing a high idle, it is either mal-adjusted or you have vacuum leaks somewhere (boots on runners, runner/head interface, carb mounting gasket, etc.
Others opinions may vary
QUOTE(So.Cal.914 @ Oct 4 2007, 01:52 PM)
Yes the single carb system is a POS, but if rebuilt ($50.00 ???) it will work.
Adjusted correctly, as others have said, I don't see why it would not last three
years. Proper maintenance and not beating it will help with that goal.
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Oct 4 2007, 01:57 PM)
What we know as a "Progressive Weber" IS a "Pinto carb". The Cap'n
I agree. Clean up the carb and adjust it. I don't see it a such a big POS, but that's just my opinion. Save your money. It will run just fine till school is over.
Not just Pinto's used a Weber progressive.
Andys
QUOTE
That said, I am an FI guy. I will keep FI until I can't get parts (translated - can't afford them or they go NLA).
stock up now, while they're cheap!
-JON
Cap'n is correct.
Weber 32/36 DGAV
Weber 32/36 DGAV
I think the Cap'n nearly always correct. You might not like it, but you can depend on it.
Holley/Weber progressives are less than ideal, but it'll probably work for a long time if you rebuild it.
Holley/Weber progressives are less than ideal, but it'll probably work for a long time if you rebuild it.
I agree that the progressive weber is OK, though not optimal. Should be reliable if you rebuild it. I had it on two cars in the '70s and it was fine. When you rebuild it, set the throttle stop screw (a teeny set screw) very carefully. If it's in too far, the throttle can stick closed, and if it's out too far you'll never get the idle down.
Main issue with winter approaching is that it isn't heated, sitting up there on its throne and with all that cold air rushing past on the way to cool the engine. Carb throat can freeze up on humid days, and either freeze the throttle (open or closed) or throttle the car to where it won't move.
As far as washing down the cylinder walls- well, I know of a lot of D-Jets that are running so rich that they smell like diesel buses... go figure.
Main issue with winter approaching is that it isn't heated, sitting up there on its throne and with all that cold air rushing past on the way to cool the engine. Carb throat can freeze up on humid days, and either freeze the throttle (open or closed) or throttle the car to where it won't move.
As far as washing down the cylinder walls- well, I know of a lot of D-Jets that are running so rich that they smell like diesel buses... go figure.
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