I have been informed that a few people feel they must stick up for my interests with Jake. I do not know who they are, Jake won't tell me but, STAY the fuck out of my business.

Just so the record is straight. The big loosers in this have been Jake Raby and Charles Navarro. They have supported this for three and a half years at what expense I really don't know. They have gone far beyond what they ever had to, since, I signed an agreement accepting responsibility for any failures. About all these guys can salvage from this is customer goodwill and insight into what went wrong.

Right from the top, I THINK THESE GUYS ARE GREAT and I'll stand up for them till the end of time. Aybody that wants to say I'm whoring for them I really don't care, you are welcome to your own opinion and, you can save your time reading to the bottom of the page. Anybody that wants to keep reading can see what REAL CUSTOMER SUPPORT is.

For you who haven't been around all this time, this engine started out as a core I bought from Rich Dauenhauer in August of 2003. Jake and I worked a deal for a kit before there really was a kit program and he let me upgrade many things. Charles got dragged into it when I chose Nickies. The only parts still remaining from that kit are the crank and the rods.

My son Gerry (teen914) and I finished the build in the fall of 2004. In October we lit it off using a Mallory dizzy and Kevin's (rhodyguys) Webers. The only problem was we had the firing order off (by the way, Jake was on the phone and said it was running on 2 cylinders). After we changed around the plug wires, it ran fine and we broke in the cam. We got the engine in the car in the early winter and set about seating the rings. I varied engine speeds, rolled onto the throttle to 6K and came off the gas and it continued to smoke. Finally, it was bust it or seat it and it never seated so out it came and down came the engine. We found broken tensioners in the oil control rings. We also found a worn cam and wear on the inside of the thrust bearing.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

So, Charles had the cylinders replated at his cost and Jake sent a new cam and new rings. I had the crank polished. At this point no one really knew what the problems were. Jake said he had had one other set of 96's smoke but, nothing like mine and he was at a loss how I could wear a cam with ceramic lifters. He did ask if I was running rich and I said no, everything was sooty from the oil and I thought my AFR's were OK. We wrote off the thrust surface on the inside of #1 as damage from some of the stuff that came apart. It was cut and polished .004 and we were good.

Gerry and I reassembled it and got it back in the car. And everything went to hell again. The cam went flat and the oil rings failed. This time I got pictures of the broken tabs on the ring lands but, that still didn't help any. The cylinders and pistons went to Charles and he sent them to Bob Cousimano at CMW Motorsports for his opinion (Charles really went out of his way on that). Cousimano picked out new higher tension oil rings and said to use the cylinders; they were fine. Jake looked over the lifters and ran them in the spintron and said they were fine. He still thought that I was running rich and diluting the oil. I still said no because I thought all the stuff I was seeing was oil soot. He chalked the cam up to too small of a base circle for the ramp rates and he sent a new cam with slightly less lift.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Back together it went and it was better but, it still used lots of oil. Gerry and I auto crossed it in Portland and drove it to Sacramento to see Jake after his crosscountry trip. We were having a lot of fun with it but, it still used about a quart of oil every 300 miles. Jake decided it was time for new cylinders and KB pistons so they replaced them and we reassembled the top end. I also changed to new heads at that time. Jake was going to use my old cylinders and pistons on one his personal projects. At the time, I thought he was crazy but, he was sure they were OK. By the way, he offered to build it himself for free and I turned him down because I wanted to see this through.

The engine was better still but, still used too much oil and the leak down numbers were not good. So, we reringed again with a slight change in how the bottom oil scrapper was installed. I ran it about 50 miles and detonated it on the freeway. I coasted to an offramp and got towed home. We had an autopsy party and found 3 broken pistons. At that point Jake again offered to assemble it but, I still wanted to finish it. Jake said come on down here and put it together in my shop so, I cleaned up everything and shipped it to Georgia and spent my vacation working harder than I work at work.

During that week, I built the engine with Brent, Blake, Tom and Jake's help in 3 days and then Jake broke it in on the dyno. Rebecca always had something to say to cheer me up even when I was out of gas. They answered all my questions and offered advice. I know I disrupted the normal operation of the shop but, they all went out of their way to help. I owe everyone a big thanks.

Get this the piston and cylinders are the exact set that shipped with my engine in 04. Leakdown was nil.

Click to view attachment

So, what got this engine all those times?

First, I ordered cylinder shims from Rimco the first time I put the engine together and I used them with every build until I got to Georgia. These were my choice based on Jake's suggestion. They fit very tightly on the cylinders. The last time I tore the engine down I made a new torque plate so I could measure the cylinders and low and behold the shims acted like a tight belt and distorted the cylinders. Interestingly they also distorted cast iron 94's enough that I could measure it with a bore gauge. I suspect that this caused the oil ring failure.

Second, I had the engine tuned too rich. Jake questioned me from the begining about the fuel mixture. Seeing the plugs that I pulled out of my engine on Jake's dyno was an epiphany. I really think that it was too rich at idle and tip in and I was diluting my oil. I'm almost sure that was the cause of the cam failures and it probably played a part in all of my problems.

Now, can anyone question the product support I've received? Not only that, Jake and Charles have both been forthcoming and pleasant. I know both guys get bashed sometimes about what they charge. But, what value can you put on their support?

Dave

Why would anyone feel they need to stick up for you?

You're a big boy and are surely capable of making your own decisions.

I think that you got first class treatment from your suppliers and that speaks volumes about them as far as I'm concerned.

Now get the motor in the car and go have fun...

Well said.

Allen

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Now, I'm going to rip up my old Subaru to cool down.

wow. dave dropped the f-bomb. never, NEVER, since i have known him have i heard him use it. he's hot!!! i've been privy to the host of issues, kept mum, and simply tried to be encouraging. jake and charles could have cut him loose and told him "you're on your own" the first time out of the box. hold on to that torque plate friend and don't throw in east bay in anger. i'm going to need it. get that engine home. i want my ride along. pronto.

k

k

Dave,
Glad to hear you found the gremlins. I hope this is the end of this chapter in the DNHUNT saga. Nothing like a small, seemingly insignificant part causing all your problems...........Wow.

Jake and crew are to be commended, medals pinned on chests, great effort.

Looking forward to seeing you out this next season. We have been running a/x at Packwood for several events. Rumor has it that PCA Oregon will run a couple events there as well next year.

Get out and drive that thing!

Gary

PS: We need to remember to run our practices in a similar manner.

Here is another example of Jake standing tall behind his products. Jake helped me out big time with my problem with shit head. Kevin knows who I'm talking about. I now have engine that is very quick around 140 hp with about 160 Ftlb of torque. I am a very happy camper. I owe Jake a lot of thanks. If I build an other engine the first place I'll go is Jake's store for a 2316 kit. Dave congrads finally having success.

Bill Shaffer

Wow, that is huge. I have NEVER heard of such support. I know none of these guys, but I am sure I will someday as Jakes engines sound great. You really do get what you pay for in the Porsche world, and if Jake has a little higher price tag on his stuff I am sure it is worth every cent. If this is the kind of support he gives he isn't charging enough.

Nice work fellas. You went way above the norm, and that is why I love the 914 community.

Hey Dave... You going to make it out to Bremerton on the 20th? I huess there will be a few meeting up for drinks after the AX.

Dave, congrats on getting your car back on the road.

As a side note, I had the chance to talk to Jake on the phone one evening. Top notch!

To those of you who feel you need to stand up for Dave, forget it. I first met Dave at Bugarama here in Sacramento when he came down to meet with Jake who had driven the HotVW project bug Blubonic Plague all the way across country to gather data. Dave, Gerry, me and almost McMark and other unmentionables had a burger together. Dave was concerned about his engine but he indicated Jake was helping him out...
This was the first I was aware that Dave had a problem. I watched as this problem unfolded. I watched as Jake and Charles and Len stood up to make sure that Dave got the engine he wanted. I am going to tell you here publically that this was the reason I chose to go with Jake's engine program. Believe me, there are closer engine builders with cheaper programs who can put you together a servicable engine. Not one of them would probably have stood up for their product the way these guys did.
When you buy an engine kit from Jake, YOU are responsible. He sends you prepared parts and inspects them to make sure that if YOU put them together correctly as the video instructs YOU will succeed. If the engine fails, if my engine fails, it is MY fault, just as it would be yours if your engine failed. Dave's message here to you guys is this, if you are responsible, STEP UP AND FESS UP!
Ultimately, I think the various failures of Dave's engine were the fault of the megasquirt system. I am not indicting Megasquirt but I do feel the lesson here is to not break in an engine using a complex system that you have to dial in while the engine is trying to survive. The first 1000 miles and particularly the first 1 hour an engine run are the most important.
I liked Dave before, I respect him more now.
As for Jake, maybe you think he is an ass. Maybe he can be an ass. But he is an expert at what he does and you need to respect that.

After hearing what he did for Dave how could anyone think he is an ass? I don't know of many that would do half of what he did. This is a sign of someone that really cares about their product.

Today I am at the track attending Petit Lemans.

I'll respond in detail when I have another means of transmission that is more effective than a Blackberry.

In my opinion, Jake is alot of things. Opinionated and abrasive at times are two.

But I have heard no one that questions his moral character.

Well said, Dave.
I've comiserated with Dave thru this long trial and now, hopefully, it is at an end.

Now I wanna drop my butt dyno into that car and see how it compares to Jake's.
According to Jake's dyno the thing outs out as much HP/torque as I estimate my 2.7L gets.
That being the case, Dave's gonna need some tiars.

Hi Fellas,

I was just wondering if anyone REALLY knows how much time, money and effort Jake has given away to the 914 community.

I know of 4 different engine issues fellas have had where Jake came to the rescue and got em fixed.
And 2 of them were at ZERO cost to the engine owner and a large cost to Jake in time and money.

And nothing was written up here or at the club about it. Cause thats the kind of man Jake is. He didn't care who knows. He did it because he needed to. He simply has a big heart for the guys that try to get it right.

I also know of at least 3 instances where Jake was willing to fix/repair/rebuild a Teeners engine for nothing or very little money.
And was turned down by the engine owner.

When I had some head sealing issues. Len Hoffman stepped up and shared a few tid bits of info with me that solved the problem. He asked for nothing in return. I have also sent people to Len that were screwed by various machine shops. And he fixed all of those heads on the cheap because he wanted the guys engine to run right. It wasn't about the money. It was about showing these engine owners that it can be done right.

Point is... NONE of these guys have to do this. Nor do they need to do it for advertising. As they are typically booked up for weeks or months of backlogged work.
They do it because they like to help guys get their engine right.

Oh... And another thing.. remeber back in the day when Stromberg was building shit engines and burning people left and right. Well.. If Jake and a few guys in SoCal didn't step up and make this punk go away. MANY more innocent people would of gotten burned. Jake had legal reasons to pursue Stromberg. But that wasn't his only purpose. He hated the notion of somebody ripping off the community. As well as one of his parts. I should know. I talked to Jake weekly during those days on that subject. And thats how I became to understand what he is all about.

Ever since those days. I have come to admire his humor, temper, dogged work ethic. And most of all... His passion for these engines.

Thats my 2 cents worth. And I needed to say it.

Cheers,
Clayton Clark

I don't keep score- I don't have the time or the brain capacity to do so-

I have loved these cars and engines all of my life, I literally care about nothing else in life more than these engines.

What I had as a childhood dream, that seemed absolutely impossible to attain has been reality for the past 15 years(2008 marks 10 years of the MassIVe engine program) and I owe all of that to the guys just like Dave and the others that I have helped me to grow the TIV into something it never was for the first 25+ years of it's existence.

I stand beside those who believe in me and fight with the opposition with an equal amount of intensity, because in my life evey day is a roller coaster ride of ups and downs.

I don't believe that what Charles and I have done for Dave is spectacular but it is exactly what should have occured.

I am glad that after many years the following that has always believed what we do is overpriced and not worth the cost of entry has finally realized what value really is.
It'll only get better from here.

claytonovich, please give me a tiny bit credit on outing the pooper. i only hope my insessant ranting saved other owners a pile of grief. as with the others in socal jake did me a huge solid too.

k

That is true Clayton. When was around, I used to think Kevin was part pitbull

My guess is that the people this thread is directed at are the same people who bitch and moan about the paid advertisements, the O.T. posts, the generally good naturedness of MOST of ud here that have a sense of humor . These people have nothing better to do then complain about OTHERS and the way they conduct themselves. These same people are also the very ones who need to re-examine the way they live life and get over whatever the issue is. Jealous pricks



I literally care about nothing else in life more than these engines


Does the wifey know this Jake?

Yeeeah... except for the part where you painted all the SoCal guys with being in cahoots with .

But I think you've grown past that by a ways.

I will say that Jake is a standup guy. I can agree with his disdain for our frugality. Appearantly almost all 'older' porsche owners are like that. I deal with them on a daily basis.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- the guy knows how to make a good product, and stand behind it. That's crucial in a market today where most vendors won't do shit once it's shipped off their lot.

Nothing wrong woth being frugal, as an individual my frugality rivals the cheapest bastard here- but I do spend my money where it will be most effective.

As an example, I do everything myself on my cars, my property and my shop and I'd rather make anything myself as buy it- even if that means it costs me more time and money.

It's been a while since stromberg popped up in conversation, but I still watch for him to make another appearance in the industry at some point and bring his poison with him with another dose.

It is true that I can be abrasive at times, but I was raised the old fashioned way and my Dad always taught me that anything worth doing is worth doing your best and that was the main reason I decided to be a Marine once upon a time. Today people are expected to be more forgiving and a little more laid back or politically correct. I refuse to conform to those expectations.

Some people love me for it, some hate me for it- but everyone will know what my true feelings are and I promise not to be a pussy about it. That's who I have been all my life.

So, where does that leave my 2.7L six that I've been pounding on for 7 years?
Value?
Complete the motor( the whole enchilada) was around 6500 bucks. I've finally had to tear it down looking for a fault that was causing poor running....massive leakdown (my fault) was not the misifring problem, the ignition was. It'll go back together for around 3K or less.

You done a good thing with Dave's motor and for that I tip my hat.
......but I stick with six

My $12K turnkey 200 HP six race motor isnt doing too bad for value either when compared to the $50K of investment Jake indicates Dave's motor has seen over the past couple of years. I'm a six fanatic and will always drive a six on the track, but I appreciate the T4 for mild street and AX car.

I love these cool T4's I just cant afford to spend that type of dough. I'm just glad there are people like Dave and others that are supporting the development of these powerplants.

Have to give Dave some recognition for sticking with this platform and working on perfecting fuel injection.

OK... Here is what had Dave so pissed off and what caused this thread to be started..

The day after Dave returned home I received an email that basically ruined my entire frigging week. The person who sent the email was obviously a forum member here, but has never purchased from us before because his name wasn't in my system.

In summary this person gives us a huge prop for having such great marketing skills, and accuses Dave of being a member of some team I have created to further my business through what he believes is a hoax. The person went on to explain how he believes Dave never even had an issue to begin with and how Dave got FREE PARTS from me and Charles in exchange for posting about his experiences (that were make believe)

When I replied back to him (with intensity) he responded that "all of this makes a different sense to him" now after reading my email and the forum posts again and then he insinuates that the issue was real but now I have targeted Mega Squirt regarding the issues only for the purpose of selling Dave more parts for the engine!

The next day I received another email that was similar, talking about Dave being tricked into giving up on Mega Squirt based on my hatred for the system and how I used the Dyno in a maner that degraded Mega Squirt, forcing Dave to spend more money!

So I emailed Dave and told him what happened and explained that I obviously can't sell him any SDS parts or help him any longer without people thinking we are members of some team with a secondary motive.

I have agreed to put Dave in contact with my suppliers directly so he can purchase the parts he needs to get back on the road. It's pretty fucking sad when helping someone even causes trouble.

Maybe I should run for office, lord knows the political bullshit (and people) I have to put up with now can't get that much worse!

I wish the whole story was make believe, thats for damn sure!

wow. there's person that spoils the party everytime! now dave is taking it in the shorts....just swell. no good deed goes unpunnished. time to sue...haha!!

k

Dave will get the same parts at the same or less cost- BUT he won't be giving the money to me....

Thats the only way to beat these assholes at their own game.

it still stinks. what you and dave work out is your biz. just as after the "onion" that was between you and me. btw, when should i ship the stuff and book my flight?

Man this is better than "As the World Turns"! At least "out" the guys that are writing these letters.

Jake,

I think some people are jealous because you help Dave out and prove to him
that his mistakes were cause by him,if I read the post right. Also that when done right the engine does produce HP! with no problems.

Damn all this time I have been thinking that "Anyone can get the results that Raby does do and nothing he do is special".

I don't think Dave agrees with that. I also don't think he agrees that the level of what we do can be replicated in the back yard- maybe he'll explain his thoughts.

There is no way any back yard mechanic can duplicate your results Jake. You have far more expereince over many motors and have the dyno room to optimise output. I dont understand why Dave just didnt let you do fuel system setup after all the issues he has had. As much as I have fun teasing you on the six verses four threads I see it from your side on this issue. You have bent over backwards to help him out.

Anyone who thinks this was a setup to make you look good is crazy.

I am sure I speak for everyone involved in this. We all wish this engine would have been a winner from the start. Jake, Charles and Len had never intended to use me or my engine for anything. The parts I recieved were beautifully prepared. I have pictures to prove it.

I am convinced I killed this engine. My choice of shims and rich fuel mix did it in. So, anybody who wants to assign blame and point fingers look at me. Some and I mean just a few of you are so anxious to hang a conspiracy on Jake and Charles you ignore the other obvious party. What about me? If you have to have a conspiracy how about this? I killed this engine to make Jake and Charles lives miserable. I"m outta here.

OMG!!!!!! These people obviously have nothing better to do!!! Grow up and get a life. The answer to everything to these people is some sort of conspiracy... how can you live like that and feel good about yourself?

The more something costs the fewer people can afford it- those people will go out of their way to find a problem with that component and point it out.

That has been my experience since day one.

Some people love it when my engines or parts fail, they get some sort of twisted pleaseure from it- they don't know that all those failures do is make my program more intense.


Grant, thanks for the post, I was expecting something much different and I was pleasantly suprised.

You and I only disagree on some limited applications of big T4's. There is no doubt in my mind if you had built this motor and tuned the fuel induction system of your choice this thread wouldnt exist.