I cant seem to align my passenger door.What gives? Bassically the door overhangs the back of the door jam at the bottom(see pic).I do not think that there is any body flex that is causing this problem. There are 6 bolts that hold the door on. I have moved these all over the place and the door will not align. It closes but not quite correct. Any ideas on what I should do.
I did close the door,remove the top and roll the window up and down with no binding. That is why I believe there is no body flex. Also the longs look solid. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


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Pull the rocker cover and take a couple more photos. It's diffeclt to tell from that angle what's up with that one. The quarter panel looks like its pushed in on the bottom from that angle.. Also looks buckled between the door and wheel opening.

Take a photo straight on of the fender to door, and the door to quarter.

Door alignment can be a PITA.

Did the door fit properly before?

How long has it been off?

Have you done significant welding to that area of the car (hell hole and rusty longs?)

It took a while to get my doors back on again so that they did not rub anywhere, and my gaps still are not exact. may not have been when I took them off, though. Its been so long...

Zach

Was the door always like this? Looks to me like the rear lower corner of the door stands outward away from the rocker/body line. You could see if a spare door fits better. That would tell you if the problem is in the door or the body.

BTW, that's what color my 914 is supposed to be and that picture looks really nice. I'm ready to paint it back.

I bought the car a month ago. Not sure what the previous owner did. I got it from a small local auto dealer. The longs are not rusted but I`m not quite sure what the hell hole is??? Not sure if I want to know,sounds kind of nasty. Anyways there is some indication that the door jams were patched. I hope that I do not have to start cutting to get things to line up. This is my first 914 and my first project car.

My 73 passenger door is similiar, doesn't stick out quite as far. As I started stripping paint on the quarter panel and I found about a 1/4" of bondo

The panel had been crunched and repaired poorly. Maybe take a magnet and test the panel for lots of body filler, and look from inside the wheel well for signs of a crash. Hope this helps, and the hell hole, yeah you don't wanna know

Jim

I know it's of no consolation but my passenger door is much worse. My car was probably hit in the door at one point. If this is what's driving you nuts on the car, consider yourself lucky.

Not driving me nuts but it is 1 of a gazillion little things that are adding up. The only problem is when I close the door it kind of puts pressure on the roof pillar and I can see it flex evrytime I close the door.

How did you determine that the longs are not rusted? Did you take the rocker panel off? If not, you may want to do that. Take the jack point cover off first and see what it looks like in there. To get the rocker panel off, you'll need to drill out some rivets.

The hell hole is the area under the battery tray. Rain would wash acid from the battery onto the frame rail and cause corrosion. Virtually all Teeners suffer from this to some extent. Get down in there with a flashlight and check it out.

I'm far from an expert, but I just got my first 914 ('71) a couple months ago, and am nearly done looking for rust. My floopan is shot (I could do a Fred Flintstone imitation), inner firewall is perforated and the hell hole is gone, but the longs and jack points are both fine. The trunks are both good. There are some bubbles at the base of the A-pillar that I expect will lead to small holes. Left rear fender has been replaced and the whole car was repainted original color. Overall, I'd say mine is not bad.

If you haven't done so yet, lift your carpet and look at the trunks and floor pan. Look at the floor pan from underneath. Rear windows leak and cause rust on the floorpan... check your window to make sure it's still well mounted. Taillights leak and cause rust in the rear trunk.

Take some diagonal measurements of an aligned door opening (or the other side) to compare. "If" the hinges aren't loose and the body is straight, you can pull up on the door end while it open to fine align it. This is one of the body shop techniques. shimming is another. Someone may have put weight on the door to get it to it's current state...

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Overall there is hardly any rust.Most of it is some small surface rust on the bad paint job. I have attached a picture with what I think is the worst area on the car. The hell hole (now I know what it is) seems to be fine. It looks like it was treated with some of that rubber sealer. There is no rust in either trunk but there is some surface rust under the headlight motor. That looks like a tough spot to get to and clean up. I saw some pictures of the longs when I got the car. They look great. Under the car has only small surface rust. My plans are to sand and paint ( I think).

there is a major problem with the driver's side @ the sail panel. i think there is a ton of bondo at the crack. prob rusty under the paint. bummer. sorry. get a small 'stuck to fridge magnet' and start checking for areas where it won't 'stick'.

k

There is a lot of bondo in this area. However this door closes fine but the bondo deffinently needs some repair work. The bondo is isolated to an area of about 6" x 6". I did check most of the car with a magnet. I guess my entention is to have a working car (not a daily driver of corse) and also not a show car. The rest of the car is fairly solid. Not quite sure what my options are for the bondo other than to grind and re-fill.

Depends on what you want out of the car. You can love it as it is, knwing that it will eventually rust, but you get the fun of driving it now.

Or you can go digging in, and finding out how bad the rust really is now. This can lead to lots f money spent, and not driving the car for 2 years.

But, dollars to donuts, if you passenger door is not fitting, and the car is flexing when you shut the door, you have some significant rust in there somewhere.

Zach

Joe,
You will need to determine the extent of your commitment to this car in terms of time and money. How much work you can do yourself will depend somewhat on your skill level, tools, time availibility and confidence. There are some true artisans on this Forum who have restored, and are currently restoring 914s, the steps of which are often posted on these Forum pages. Those "threads" can also give you an indication of how insidious rust can infect and later undermine and then overwhelm and destroy a 914 if not corrected and repaired properly.
As an example, shown below are three photos of my car which is currently undergoing restoration. The first photo shows what appears to be a nice, solid 914 sail panel and rear quarter. The second pic, with the paint and roof vinyl removed, shows the extent of corrosion, just on the outside. Further investigation revealed additional corrosion inside the rollbar area (third pic). This fix hasn't been cheap, but I've owned the car, driven it and cared for it since '75 and was willing to commit to its restoration.
Good luck in what you do, and I'm sure you'll find plenty of help. direction and advice from your fellow Forum members.

Paul

Joe,
Color looks great. Where in NH? There is a super nice person, John Dunkle, who lives in Portsmouth and has a great Porsche web site. ( http://www.rennlist.org ) if you are near there. Maybe he could give you some pointers or some of the others Porsche folks who are near could do likewise.

Welcome to 914land.

Dave Darling wrote a good FAQ on the 914 for what a 914 is, etc. Read the big butt test in relation to that door sticking you wrote here about.
http://www.pelicanparts.com
Look under Porsche 914.

Might even be located on here, 914world, too.

I have done the test several times with different people. I assume you are talking about moving the window down,removing the top and than getting someone to sit in the seat. At this time if the longs were bad or the body was flexing the window would be difficult to move up. That is the confusing part of my problem because the window does not bind. As a matter of fact the window moves quite easily even with about 290 lbs of weight in the seat(I used my weight and a couple of bags of play sand I had laying around). Again I am barely a novice but I think this test sort of shows that the body is probably not flexing. I hope I am not trying to convince myself that the car is better than it actually is. My overall goal is to have a vintage Porsche that can be driven around town and perhaps back and forth to work every now and than. i have always loved the look of the 914 and now that I own one it would be nice to actually be able to drive it. I need an exhaust and heat exchangers and also an e-brake handle. My ultimate goal is to get these done fairly inexpensive and than over the next couple of years continue to restore.The exhaust that is in there needs new H.E tin because it is rotted. I ripped the tin out so now I have no heat.

Leave the top on to do the big butt test. That is how the flex can be seen... I think.
Edited:
Oh. I just looked. You are right. Top off is what Dave said.

Since you are new to owning a 914, another great link for everything 914 information.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914tech_articles.htm

Cooltimes.

Here is a a little bit better picture of the door. Also a couple pictures under the car. I am not sure what the oppinion is of the rust under. Is it horrible or manageable? I dont think it looks all that bad. The area that I took the pic of is on the passenger side. Most of the car under is clean with some small surface rust.

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The bottom pic is the underside of the car, right?
What is directly on top of that, under the battery, against the firewall. That is where bad rust will be hiding, if its there. It might have apint or somehting covering it, probe it with a screwdriver or a pic. Even tapping the screwdriver with a hammer should not harm the metal if it is solid. If it goes through, then you have to make other decisions.

Don't feel bad if it does - it does (or did) for most of our cars.

It could just be that your door is mis alligned, or needs a little shim.

If it was me, it wire wheel that rust and slap some rust converter on there to keep it from rusting further (the bottom pic) and then repaint with something tough - eastwoods chassy black or some other epoxy based paint. But, well, thats me and I have not been able to drive my car since the resto started Oct of 2005....

Zach

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Thanks Zach. I did probe around with a screw driver and I was not able to poke through anywhere ( my wife thinks im crazy because I spend so much time under the car). The hell hole seems to be solid. The bottom pic is almost directly under the wheel well. That is probably the worst rust under the car. I am starting to wonder if the P.O replaced the rear quarter and mis aligned it. I dont know if this picture helps.

It looks to me like someone did rust repair because there is no jack point! I would guess that they did it wrong.

Jack point delete usually means some sort of rust repair, as it is a super-common spot for it.

Zach

Sorry for my ignorance but does that mean that mean I could have big problems. Could I put a jack under the long (directly under the door) and than jack it up. Maybe this could be used as a guage to see if the car is sagging on that side. If I jack it up and the gap in the door gets better or becomes acceptable than I would assume that I have a problem. However if the gap is the same maybe that could be an indication that the repair work was simply done wrong. Just a thought.
Also if I wanted to expose the long what is involved? That is probably the only way to know what I am up against.
Thanks again to anyone who can help.

Your door probably won't align perfectly right because the car body wapred a little when the jack point/longs were fixed in that area (that is my personal experience).

I guess my question is should I live with it and call it a day or should open the can of worms. Im not sure I want to find out that I have an $1800 parts car(lol). On the other hand if I expose the long and find that it was just a bad repair job and all is solid I can start sleeping again at night. Either way , the more I think about it sooner or later I am gona have to dig. I think for now I will align the best I can, run it for next summer,and than think about the inevedable next fall(my spelling sucks sorry). Damn, i`m only a couple of months into this 914 life and already loosing my hair,going grey, and missing sleep.Oh and my wife thinks i`m now crazy. Please tell me it gets better.
Thanks again for all your help.

Joe... to be a little more specific on what the guys are saying.

When repairing that section it usually nessesary to cut the bottom of the fender away to gain full access to the area.

The PO probably did not re-attach the fender section correctly therefore making the panels not line up correctly.

Only way to correct this is to cut bottom of fender again and align properly...repaint and viola your done.

OR

Just live with it. If you only paid $1800 bucks for the car this is the kind of thing your going to get.

Depending on how extensive the rust was or is will decide how you repair it! You can follow along an extream case repair here

Rust Repair

What does the gap on the front of the door look like? From looking at your pictures again I do think that the "sagging" is probably a result of the chassis being rewelded and warping. You *can* fix this by cutting open the long or changing the edge of the rear quarter and rewelding it correctly if this is the problem.

I may have missed this. but if you jack the car up in the middle does the door gap change?

The gap on the door does not change when I jack it. I think this may indicate that it is fairly solid and probably welded wrong. The driver side is much better. It has an even gap and the door closes with no issues.

OK, what if . . .

Figuring that you're not going to open up the longs and lower closure in order to re-set and re-weld the sheet metal that the previous owner messed up on, how about removing the inner upholstered panel and sliding a long, thin STRONG pry-bar into the inside of the door bottom and (padding the top outer part of the door frame) against the outer frame work at the top and kinda twisting/prying/rotating the door a bit to bring the bottom inwards.

Sounds harsh, I know, but you honestly see this kind of thing done at every body and fabrication shop around. Especially with after market sheet metal.

Of course, don't go overboard and cock everything out of alignment, but gentle/firmly applied pressure against the top to pull in the bottom would go a long way towards correcting the proud lower door edge.

Probably a long shot, but is there any chance that the door itself is tweaked?

I dont think the door is tweaked. I took a little more time and looked at the door again. The gap near the front fender is the same on both the driver and passenger door. I am starting to think more and more that the rear fender placement could be the problem. The door overhangs the rear quarter panel by about 1/4" but is o.k at the front. I think I am going to take some diagnal measurements and see if that points to anything.

can you give us a photo of the car

From the rear of the car, along the passenger side so we can see the profile of the full passenger side of the car, taken while kneeling down. from that we can see how far off the door and the rear quarter is.

That pic of under the car looks like the car was sectioned as you can see a welded
seam

I think Craig is talking about these spots. In the center area you can actually see the weld beads. It looks like the other areas I circled are some type of reinforcement. It looks to me like the back half of one car was added to the front of another, also.

I will get you a picture of the bottom of my car tomorrow so you can see what it should look like in that area. You may try to find differences in paint color in hidden areas in the front and rear, that would help confirm also.

If it is a good running car, you can probably recoup your investment by parting it out, so dont feel too bad if you decide you can't live with it as is.

JimClick to view attachment

Here is a pic from the rear of the car. I think if it is a bad hack job I can live with it for now ( as long as it is safe ). If I can get a 4 or 5 good years out of it I would be happy.

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the guys may be on to something with the sectioning. if you take your seats out and look on the interior floor you may see weld lines, or similar patches. @ $1800 for a driver just enjoy it. folks have have paid a GREAT deal MORE for cars with worse problems. i hope that's a little consolation.

k

Seriously, the car looks good. So long as you can close the door, I'd just drive the piss out of it. Seems like its had rust repair done, and the car warped a bit. You could always bend it back on a celette bench if it really bothered you. Don't part the car - too nice for that!

Zach