I am having a intermittent issue with starting my 73 2.0L. I am running stock fuel injection and besides a mild cam and hydraulic lifters have a stock motor. So here is the issue...
90% of the time I go to start the car the fuel pump primes and it fires off on the first time or two it compresses... Sometimes if I warm up the car and then shut it down and try to re start it still primes and everything sounds good but the engine turns over and will not fire. If I try 3-4 times it will eventually flood and I will start to smell the gas.
If I wait about 30 minutes to a hour and try to start it and it fires right up. It almost sounds like vapor-Lock but I don't think it should do that in 60-70 degree weather???
Any ideas???
Full Version: Starting issues.
QUOTE(bmtrnavsky @ Oct 24 2007, 01:44 PM) 
I am having a intermittent issue with starting my 73 2.0L. I am running stock fuel injection and besides a mild cam and hydraulic lifters have a stock motor. So here is the issue...
90% of the time I go to start the car the fuel pump primes and it fires off on the first time or two it compresses... Sometimes if I warm up the car and then shut it down and try to re start it still primes and everything sounds good but the engine turns over and will not fire. If I try 3-4 times it will eventually flood and I will start to smell the gas.
If I wait about 30 minutes to a hour and try to start it and it fires right up. It almost sounds like vapor-Lock but I don't think it should do that in 60-70 degree weather???
Any ideas???
I have the same problem! I run a few errands and then it won't start for an hour or more. If it has sat for 4 hours or more, never a problem. Recent tune up, points etc.....Is the fuel pump beginning to fail and vapor lock more easily?
For me, this is new after 1.5 years of no starting problems. Stock FI and pump location.
Does it start to run funny after it is warmed up? Maybe the CHT sensor!
QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Oct 24 2007, 02:17 PM)
Does it start to run funny after it is warmed up? Maybe the CHT sensor!
Mine runs very strong once it fires up.
Coil getting too hot?
Brad Anders resaerched the hot start issue, and once the engine is turned off then back on again (after fully warmed up) the FI system will run rich for a bit.
Brad Anders resaerched the hot start issue, and once the engine is turned off then back on again (after fully warmed up) the FI system will run rich for a bit.
Sounds like classic vapor lock, no?
Seem to happen more on hot days?
Easy to try keeping the tank full in the hot weather.
Also, avoid ethanol-containing gas wherever possible.
Paul
Seem to happen more on hot days?
Easy to try keeping the tank full in the hot weather.
Also, avoid ethanol-containing gas wherever possible.
Paul
NO!!!! No offense Paul, you are just sharing stuff you've heard. Sorry if I sound krusty. No offense intended. But vapor lock is mostly a farce.
THIS is not vapor lock! As etherial as that mythical problem is, I promise it's not the case here and now. I question that always, but this is Winter in the Pacific NW, so even more than ever I say BAH!!!!
From what I understand, when this problem occurs, we don't hear the fuel pump running (on a 73 2.0, so fuel pump should hum when key on.... for a sec, then should run when cranking and running).
If you determine for sure that the fuel pump isn't running then you can run through some steps to narrow it down.... How are the connectors at the pump? Put a meter on it - is there power at the pump? You could also make some jumper wires (I have some on hand with alligator clips at each end that are handy for stuff like this) and put power directly to the fuel pump terminals to see if it runs.
THIS is not vapor lock! As etherial as that mythical problem is, I promise it's not the case here and now. I question that always, but this is Winter in the Pacific NW, so even more than ever I say BAH!!!!
From what I understand, when this problem occurs, we don't hear the fuel pump running (on a 73 2.0, so fuel pump should hum when key on.... for a sec, then should run when cranking and running).
If you determine for sure that the fuel pump isn't running then you can run through some steps to narrow it down.... How are the connectors at the pump? Put a meter on it - is there power at the pump? You could also make some jumper wires (I have some on hand with alligator clips at each end that are handy for stuff like this) and put power directly to the fuel pump terminals to see if it runs.
QUOTE
If I try 3-4 times it will eventually flood and I will start to smell the gas.
Cant be the fuel pump with flooding.
QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 24 2007, 04:44 PM)
NO!!!! No offense Paul, you are just sharing stuff you've heard. Sorry if I sound krusty. No offense intended. But vapor lock is mostly a farce.
THIS is not vapor lock! As etherial as that mythical problem is, I promise it's not the case here and now. I question that always, but this is Winter in the Pacific NW, so even more than ever I say BAH!!!!
From what I understand, when this problem occurs, we don't hear the fuel pump running (on a 73 2.0, so fuel pump should hum when key on.... for a sec, then should run when cranking and running).
If you determine for sure that the fuel pump isn't running then you can run through some steps to narrow it down.... How are the connectors at the pump? Put a meter on it - is there power at the pump? You could also make some jumper wires (I have some on hand with alligator clips at each end that are handy for stuff like this) and put power directly to the fuel pump terminals to see if it runs.
My fuel pump is running normally, and it actually floods the engine if I try to many times to start it...
Thats what has me so stumped... and your right, it seems like it is way to cool right now to be vapor-locking this time of year at 9PM.
QUOTE(bmtrnavsky @ Oct 24 2007, 05:02 PM)
QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 24 2007, 04:44 PM)
NO!!!! No offense Paul, you are just sharing stuff you've heard. Sorry if I sound krusty. No offense intended. But vapor lock is mostly a farce.
THIS is not vapor lock! As etherial as that mythical problem is, I promise it's not the case here and now. I question that always, but this is Winter in the Pacific NW, so even more than ever I say BAH!!!!
From what I understand, when this problem occurs, we don't hear the fuel pump running (on a 73 2.0, so fuel pump should hum when key on.... for a sec, then should run when cranking and running).
If you determine for sure that the fuel pump isn't running then you can run through some steps to narrow it down.... How are the connectors at the pump? Put a meter on it - is there power at the pump? You could also make some jumper wires (I have some on hand with alligator clips at each end that are handy for stuff like this) and put power directly to the fuel pump terminals to see if it runs.
My fuel pump is running normally, and it actually floods the engine if I try to many times to start it...
Thats what has me so stumped... and your right, it seems like it is way to cool right now to be vapor-locking this time of year at 9PM.
Thanks for the update Brad. Last night I thought I heard talk about the fuel pump not running. (I thought we talked about not hearing the pump run when the key was turned on for a sec?) If the fuel pump is running then we have a whole new troubleshooting track to explore.
I know for sure this is not a vapor lock issue.
IMHO
fuel line pressure needs checked. Too little it won't crank and too much it will flood.
Also the return line back to the fuel tank can get gummed up and create the same issue and appearance.
MikeCooley
fuel line pressure needs checked. Too little it won't crank and too much it will flood.
Also the return line back to the fuel tank can get gummed up and create the same issue and appearance.
MikeCooley
Fuel pressure 29-30PSI? Vacuum system intact and well sealed? MPS (and the hose) good? Valve adjustment (I realize it's hydraulic)? Cam profile too radical for MPC EFI? (That's a biggie.) Dwell and timing on the money? Voltage to the coil and the ECU at 11V or better while cranking? (That's another biggie.) Continuity and good solid connections to ALL FI components?
That's it for now. Report back when you've checked ALL that stuff.
The Cap'n
That's it for now. Report back when you've checked ALL that stuff.
The Cap'n
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Oct 24 2007, 06:41 PM)
Fuel pressure 29-30PSI? Vacuum system intact and well sealed? MPS (and the hose) good? Valve adjustment (I realize it's hydraulic)? Cam profile too radical for MPC EFI? (That's a biggie.) Dwell and timing on the money? Voltage to the coil and the ECU at 11V or better while cranking? (That's another biggie.) Continuity and good solid connections to ALL FI components?
That's it for now. Report back when you've checked ALL that stuff.
The Cap'n
valves should be good its only been about 2 months and low miles since last adjustment. Cam is very mild... vacume lines look good.
Is there anyone north of Seattle that would want to look at this with me?
Anyone North of Seattle that may be able to help me with this issue in real time?
I would love to help Brad, but I am not available until next week. If nobody has come out to help by Monday I will see what I can do.
QUOTE(Blood red 914-6gt @ Oct 25 2007, 06:31 PM)
I would love to help Brad, but I am not available until next week. If nobody has come out to help by Monday I will see what I can do.
That would be awesome!
Thanks!
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