I've been looking for carerra four cam engine pictures for awhile now and haven't found any good ones. Please post any pictures you digital pack rats have saved. Thanks a ton!

http://www.356-911.com/modelinfo/porsche%2...0356carrera.htm

Best I could find.. =\

Lookee here... (*won't help, but wow!)

http://www.geocities.com/danielmacmillan/k...tom/porsche.htm

Here this could be blown up some.

http://www.elevenparts.com/pictures/251-4.jpg

m

Here you go:

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

MMMmmm, John I really like that. Do you think it would be hard to make/find a Carrera style fan shroud for a Type 1?

Rick

poor pic I took while atthe petersons museum

571 type?

The guys who build these engines must be old, because there don't seem to be any digital pictures of them by them selves on engine stands. WTF?

check out this book

Go here to hear what one sounds like.

I have seen a book on these engines and only Chris Reale could appreciate them. They are built more like a watch than anything else, a true work of art by Dr Ernst Furhman. He also was in on the building of the 2.0L engine in our little cars.

Geoff

I tweek on them as well. I have a ton of pics. email me @ info@aircoledtechnology.com and I'll give you a zip file full. Post what you like here. All my pics are digital, most of them not even 2 months old.

I just got finished with a 59 Carrera GT that raced at Lemans in 60-61..... pulling the engine from a 300K buck car is a true experience.

They sound cool, but they are no fun to work with. I have paid 8,000.00 for a set of pistons and cylinders for one!!! A typical engine build is 25K, can be more.

They are slow- compared to even a 1776 TI engine! The powerband is useless on the street, nothing before 5,000 RPM.....

All they have is a cool factor to me, but after you work on one at least you can add it to the resume.

BTW, someone above mentioned a Carrera style shroud for a TI........

I know of two people currently doing it. Both have contacted me for dyno work on their pieces. One will sell for about 2K, the other is authentic as hell and will sell for around 4K.

$$$$$$$ and these engines go hand in hand. The fan alone is 700 bucks at wholesale.

Some I just found.

One more.

micro sized?

Pics are on the way....

If you notice some engines have distributors on the upper cam boxes, others have then crank driven. The early engines had roller bearings on the crank and are even harder to work with. These are the engines that have the dizzys on the rocker boxes.

The later engines (starting in 59) had "Plain bearings" like a normal engine. These engines have the dizzys that are driven off the crankshaft.

Either engine is a bitch to set up, even the timing. On the dash of 4 cam cars you will find 2 push/pull switches. These switches disable/enable each distributor. When setting timing you must ensure each dizzy has the exact same curve, as well as initial and full advance. When the dizzy starts to wear this is near impossible.

While the engine is running the distributors are disabled one at a time and the timing is set independantly. This must be done a few times to get the engine to the point that you can disable the dizzys and the idle doesn't drop any noticeable amount on the tach (about 50 RPM)

Sometime in the Spring I plan on visiting Mr. Bill Doyle in Wyoming. He is the modern day expert on these engines and a super nice guy to boot. He has agreed to let me come learn even more about these engines, since he is almost ready to retire. I'm looking forward to it!

Hey Mark,

You might want to look at WWW.KAMMotors.com, it's my old man's shop and he has doing the 4 cam engines since I was born! He's one of the factory trained 4 cam engine builders and if I understand right, there isn't that many out there that can build a damn good engine.

Jake's right...it's sometimes a bitch to build but once it's build right, it's a BALL to drive her...yes, the rpm range isnt great for street driving but hell, try drive her faster, i bet you'll need more toliet papers if you're not careful with your warp speed driving....

There are three different 4 cam engine types, 547, 692 and 587 with it's own version of improvements indicated such as 547/1 or 692/1 to 692/3A etc. The 587 are the street car version and much easier to drive on the street but still not quite easy to take off on low rpm....wait till you get over to a certain rpm range, bang there she goes flying away!

I'd love to drop a 4 cammer in my teen but I just don't have the money to buy such a engine...even in basket case....last time I saw the sale transaction in the '99, a used 692/3A (off of a 904) were in the upper $25K! And it needs to be rebuilt...more moola!

Yes, Jake is right about setting the timing up ....the process of setting the timing right can run anywhere 8 to 16 hours alone! It's matter of experience and understand how it's being set up then when you do more than 5 engines, it becomes bearable....I have done at least 2 myself and it was something...but once it's running, BIG SMILES and more wet pants rides!!!

j

I don't know how I would be able to even run that motor, the valve noise makes me cringe.




M

Yes the cam noise is something thats scary the first time that you drive one... especially when you are going up and down through the RPM range without a gearshift. The cams have backlash on the gears so you can definately hear it...

First time I worked on one I thought that the engine was gonna come unglued!

I'd like to build one up with a set of Big Bore Nickies, drop some bigger valves into the heads, bump up the CR a tad and match it to a set of reground cam profiles...

I bet the sucker would make 200 with no problem at all, especially since the rev range is so high!

Hi Rick,

It would be very time consuming...not for those with thin wallets....I include myself in this group. The prices Jake mentions sound about right for custom work.

I'm making a skullcap type piece for my Bergmann POS fan shroud to hide the mounting strap that will give it a similar look. I'll post a picture when I'm done with it.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Never got the pics Jake.
markd@mac.com

I sent them..... zip file. I'll try again.

Mark,
Here is a shot from the December 1958 issue of Road & Track. It is running on a test stand without it's exhaust pipes connected. Those are flames coming stright from the heads.

Paul

why would you use 2 distributors for a twinplugged engine? why not use an 8 cylinder distributor with a double sided rotor? hmmm

The same issue has listed in the classified ads:

PORSCHE ENGINE-roller bearing crankshaft, perfect mechanical condition, disassembled, complete with shoulds and clutch. $550.00, fright collect.


Paul

That would be nice. Post it when it's ready if you don't mind.

Rick

two different systems are great if you lose one in a race... just disable it and fire one set of plugs.

A double sided rotor would have a tendency to fire the opposing cylinder simultaneously.

In the pic above it appears that they installed the heads on the wrong sides of the engine! The tach drive is suppose to be on the #1-2 cylinder intake cam box cover, not #3-4

Hmmmn,.

I was trying to figure out how smart they where for running the engine with No exhuast on it.. now that you pointed out the tach drive... I dont think they where very smart.

Was the tach drive in a different place for a mid engine car versus a rear engine car ??


B

i understand the dual system reliability issue. but a twin sided rotor wont fire the opposite cylinder simultaneously, it would fire both plugs for the same cylinder simultaneously.

Heres what i mean...(sorry for the bad drawing)

The real problem is to find a coil that can usefully fire 2 plugs at once. I've just been through this gathering the parts to do a hi comp and twin plug conversion on the 6.

goood point....

Well....they maybe nuts to run the engine with out the headers like that but the tach drive is in the right place, depending on what car the engine will go in....it's for the Spyder...more likely the RSK (and maybe the RS60, too) as it has the earliest V-drive distributor housing...the later version has a slightly slant set up, mostly on Type 587 engine...

That engine is probably the 1500cc which it's power output rated approx. 166 (150 DIN net horsepower at 7800 RPM). It's hard to see exactly what version that is, be it a 547/2 or /3 or even /4 (which is probably the RS60 engine).

You see, Porsche has made so many modification on the 4 cam engine as they go to races, trying to better themselves on the track and drive other team crazy to keep up with their new ideas...kinda fun!

j

HUm.. all of the Electromotive GM coils fire two plugs at once (wasted spark) All Harley Davidson motorcycles fire two plugs at once from a single coil. I cant imagine finding a coil pack to do this very difficult.

Interesting. I just thought about what we use. I use two Electromotive coil packs to fire 12 plugs on a 3.6. I dont wire the coils so that one coil fires both plugs. I wire it so one coil on each seperate "pack" fires the same plug. I dont know why I dont fire both plugs from ONE coil on the same "pack". It probably has to do with coil saturation or me following the instructions.

3.6 engines only have two coils. One coil fires one dizzy and the other fires the other (stock config)


b

As for the ignition set up, dual dizzy are used with it's own points and coils. Dual switches on the dash are used to shut one down and set up the timing on one dizzy then turn it back on to shut the other one off to set up dizzy numba two. The engine needs both dizzy running to get the max power. Yes, you can shut one down to keep on going but the power is pretty noticeable different. Amazing!

j

Brad,

I ended up going the C2 distributor route, but took the sync sensor out of the dizzy and replaced it with a Ford one that had the 6 slots in it. It will trigger 2 M&W cdi units and fire 2 Bosch cdi coils, one for each dizzy. Just got to work out the advance curve.