Found this on ebay, wanted some input on this, whether it was worth my time. Tried to order points but they're out of stock. Thinkin about converting, it looks easy?? Anyone do this??

Thanks!!
Ron

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...bayphotohosting

Hi Ron,

Lots of people love pointless ignitions. I don't get the point.

(Damn, I'm funny today!)

Seriously, your local FLAPS should have a set on-hand... or be able to get a set without too much trouble.

-Rusty

So what you're saying is stay with points??

People love pointless ignitions because you can set them and go. No messing around with dwell and timing adjustment. But if it fails, your car is dead.

I've heard that units like the Pertronix will fail if you leave your ignition on for long periods of time (listening to the radio, etc). No personal experience.

I like points because they're generally simple and commonly available. If they start to wear, I can adjust them with a feeler gauge... and buy another set in anticipation for my next tune-up. I usually keep an extra set in the toolbox for the /6.

I think it's personal preference. Call around to your local parts places and see if someone can find them for you. Otherwise, if you have a reason to change, then go for it. Do what makes ya happy!

I have the Crane Optical, works well, fairly easy to install. You can leave your ignition on and no problems.

I run Pertronix. Not familiar with the brand in that Ebay ad.

I don't think there is a performance benefit, but I like not having to deal with point maintenance. You do still have to adjust timing, but no more dwell. The electronics never wear, so they are always in perfect adjustment.

I've never had a failure. But I do carry a spare set of points/condenser in my onboard parts/tools.

My fuel pump and coil are on a separate circuit. Even with points, I wouldn't like having that stuff powered up with the engine off just because I want to listen to the stereo. I like having my accessories on a separate circuit.

I've had the same pertronix in my car for 9 years. No problems.
Points are cheap because they're not worth very much.

If you're gonna stick with points, and I suggest you do, BE SURE TO BUY ONLY BOSCH POINTS! 01 011 is the part number. All others are crap. The Cap'n

That ebay unit looks like a Pertronix knockoff anyway.

Here is some additional information about electronic ignition:
Electronic Ignition

Here are some older 914world threads on the topic:
Ignition Conversion, Need Advice
Pertronix electronic ignition

There is a new model of Pertonix out now
"Ignitor II", which has some more advanced features.
Including protecting itself from overloading (leaving the key on),
(using a high output low resistance coil), and hooking it up backwards.
Ignitor II
which seems to be the major complaints against the original version.

As far as actual installation goes. It is really easy. The most important
thing is to get the wiring correct. Get it wrong, and the unit is burned up.
(except the newer Ignitor II).
You will need to re-time the engine as it will change some after installing the device.
Also, keep in mind that some companies have different models for vacuum
advance distributors vs pure mechanical advance distributors. So
make sure you get the proper version for your distributor.

Here is a link showing what a Compufire install involves:
CompuFire Install
The others are fairly similar.



--- bill

Awesome! I love these sites. I totally appreciate everyones help. my parts car actually has the unit mounted by the battery for an optical system. I think it's the crane???

...not that it's difficult to agree with the Cap'n...but I support using points too.
One too many stories of cars craping out because of failing electronic ignition. Trouble shooting seemed to result in putting the points back in and off they went.

I'm a "budding mechanic" and could set the points first shot no problem..so I don't see the maintenance as being a good reason to switch.

Don't buy the one from Ebay! It is extremely sensitive to voltage. I bought one and after 2 replacement units it never was right. Stick with points unless you go optical!

Points!!

This is all great feedback!!! Thanks!

...flame ON
yes, stick with points and while your at it throw away that antiquated FI system and switch to some 48 IDA webers
points are obviously the better choice that is why the automotive industry has embraced them despite the century of technology that has come since their inception.

I've been told by multiple sources to stick with the FI. Especially if I'm not going to race this one.

I am an advocate of fuel injection and fine sarcasm

...don't listen to Sean...he's just cranky...it's his 99th birthday today

Ha!!

Happy Birthday!!! Wow, a Century almost

yup. and i still drive...in your neighborhood

Here is my take...

Points are old school, wear, and require maintenance.

Electronics stay set and dont' require periodic maintenance and replacement.

That being said, electronics can crap out at a heartbeat and leave you stranded.....

Points (when they fail) can almost always be re-adjusted to get home...

One way is to run electronics in the dizzy with the inexpensive points and condenser in an emergency kit in the trunk. Then you wait til the $$$ worth of electronics craps out, rip the $$$ POS electronics out, throw them as far as you can, and put in the cheap parts you know will get you home.....

There, everybody happy????

Ken

Electronic point replacement units do mask a problem.
The old distributors have worn out bushings and this makes them wobble...quite a bit at higher rpms.
This wobble makes the points fire at the wrong time.

The optical units are not as picky about this wobble, so they do mask the issue to a certain extent.

Personally, most people know that I am a points guy.
Why...
Points cost 4 bucks.
Points can be replaced on the side of the road.
Points wont leave you stranded.

I choose to spend my money on other things.

Rich

After a $275 rebuilt hall effect dizzy for my Vanagon.........

Points look pretty good......

Ken

Electronics in modern cars are designed to withstand the environment they're in. Is the 'ignitor' designed properly to last in this environment? I don't know.

On my car (-6), I had a need to eliminate points, since they bounce like hell at
high RPM and I wanted to use the signal for other purposes. I have an optical
pickup, which is mostly just a Radio-shack quality LED and photodiode, which has
worked fine in the ~250 degree distributor for 8 years. Simple parts rarely fail.

That said, I don't like to be stuck, and my toolbox has a whole extra distributor
with points in it, and a timing light.

I've used both the Compufire and the Pertronix modules with excellent results. I personally like the Compufire the best because there is no gap to set on the rotor and as things heat up in the engine the .030" gap on the Pertronix unit changes. The Pertronix is also more affected by shaft wobble and wire chafing Also I feel you have more exact timing with the Compufire since the magnets are further away from the center of the rotor; like timing marks and a small pulley will be very close Vs. the same marks on a much larger pulley will be further apart thus easier to time precisely.

I've had issues w/ a 914 w/ D-jet that I installed a Compufire unit on. I seemed to interfere with the grounding on the coil pick-up for the computer and it would cut out off idle. I put points back on and the problem wend away. . . Has anyone else had this problem with D-jet and these modules or was that a fluke?? L-jet doesn't seem to care. I've installed countless units on L-jet powered VW buses and beetles with no bad results.

I use Allison / Crane optical units. One failure in many moons!

I have been running the same for years. After installation it fires right up, something it didn't do before. Carry a set of points and condenser in your car just in case the EI fails.

I have used Pertronix since 2001 with no failure until yesterday when I did a tune up and reconnected the cables the wrong way and i fried my unit. Beside that I must say I have had no problems with it. Just ordered a new one

When you use points to trigger an elctronic ignition such as an MSD there is very little voltage going through it. It is not the same as when you run a stock only a stock coil. I have run the same set of points for about 10,000 miles with my MSD 6A and no sign of wear and did not need any adjustment. No tech and cheap. I have had two Pertronix crap out on me. It has been a while though so maybe they are better.

I installed a hot spark unit about 5K ago
http://www.hot-spark.com/
Idle is way better and I never have to mess with dwell and replacement again! Just drop it in and go! ( I carry my old points and condensor just in case)

I have had the same pertronix unit in Betty's 1.8 for about 10 years now. It works great! Before it, I put in a compufire, and while it performed fine, the tach would never settle down. It bounced and was never accurate with the compufire.


Before that, I adapted a Toyota electronic igniton to work with the stock 914 distributor. It was bulletproof. I had it on the car when the engine fire took the car out.


On my six, I use a pertronix to trigger the stock CD box. It works fine. I worry more about the CD box failing than I do about the pertronix failing. I don't carry anything to replace the pertronix, but I have a second CD box mounted and wired so I can just switch the fuse to switch CD boxes.

The new 4.0L motor for the six will get a twin plug distributor with 2 pertronix units to fire both CD boxes.

I've been running the same crane for 20 years. I carry a spear dizzy set up to bolt in and haven't yet. Thats on a sand rail. 6 pointless dizzies and have not found a need to repalce one on all of the toys.

..........Many years ago, when the "electronic qizmo"ignitions were STILL being developed.....I was using a points distributor(bosch) for racing.and in my street car(s)...The points distributors just required new internals all the time, for reliability and best performance...Then there were the coils....etc....FINALLY-and I mean FINALLY..I made the decision to use a VERTEX MAGNETO...totally self contained power unit -NO coil..(to overheat etc)...One ground wire (switch) to kill engine. The S.O.A .B. will fire spark plugs immersed in oil...plenty of voltage and amperage...(I had to disassemble my new unit to change internal advance weights to get the ignition advance curve I wanted)......I was amazed by the H.P. the magneto unleashed(which was there all the time)....and of course the dependability and reliability....(side note) NONE of the other alternative ignition systems were/are FAA APPROVED....So I,m using a VERTEX MAGNETO. still....and recently swapped and traded for another one for my spare engine.

I've used the compufire, and pertronix, but always carry an extra set of points, just in case...

I switched to a crane xr700 on this one though and no issues... runs great.

I agree. I even see a better signal with the compu-fire with the scope. I had put in a Hot-spark set up originally, but it died after my small fire. For 65 bucks it's well worth it. I do keep points and a condensor in the car just in case, cheap insurance.

I have had a 6al on my 79 jeep truck a long time. It's mainly because we drive around about 5 mph all year and eventually the plugs get fouled some so they go longer without needing changing. It does still have the stock stuff on the fenderwell in case. The only compufire I have is on a sporster and it's been ok except when I installed it I wanted a 6500 rev limit and for some reason it would cause a blip at about 4500 in first gear. The shop that reccommended it said yeah that happens some time from the vibration, just raise the limit. So now it's at 7200 and it's ok but I really like to shift the gears without the clutch when the limiter blips the motor and that is really a little higher that I like. It does keep the motor on it's curve good though.

It became pretty obvious which is best when even the lawn mower came out with electronic ignition.

Using Pertronix. No trouble for the last 5 years, no adjustments, just set timing.

WTF is a "spear dizzy"? a spare distributor I assume, not some kind of Neanderthal's hunting weapon. Some of these misspellings and grammar errors are hilarious. Go World

I am old school and like to stick with points. They are simple and easy to replace if they fail, spares are cheap and easy to carry.
Yes points wear and require maintenance but the distributor needs maintenance anyway.
I figure since I need to lube the advance weights and distributor shaft and clean & lube the injection points anyway replacing the points easy.
I have seen plenty of distributors that the advance would bind or stick mostly form lack of maintenance.

Correct Bosch points ONLY for these cars.

Jim

It's embareassing. I'm one of the few good speeelers hear.

BTW Petronix. 1 yr 3k in this car; 8yr ?miles in a Ghia. No problems.

Electronic vs points. Serious subject for some people. The last time commented on this I got an interesting PM.

Fuck you again, It is people like you who make online experiences stupid. Your probably a bigger "man" online than in reality, as seems the case more often than not.. I would deal with you to your face in the same manner I am now.. or even more direct.. Try to show some respect fif not for anyone yourself.. you bag of shit.. I am getting off this site so I will never get to see your response, but if you see a Marathon Blue 914 driving through you town next Sunday, feel free to flag me down you complete ass will get what it deserves and I do not give a damn if I end back in Prison for giiving you a beat down..

Luckily, I haven't seen his car in town yet.

The pointless ignition works great in that it makes for easier starting, (especially when cold) smoother idle, and keeps the timing from varying which means less frequent adjustment and better gas mileage. The only downside is that they too often fail from heat. The air cooled engine just generates too much heat for the setup to last as long as it should. If you install the pertronix or the compufire, just make sure you carry a new set of points and condenser in your car!!!

George do you have a preference of Pertronix over Compufire?

to hot, well i'd say that could kill an electric system, but I have also seen heat melt a Bosche insulator on points and that short to ground fried the wire a good bit back in the harness. (seems some bosch points had a low melting point insulator )

at any rate over 100 k miles on Pertronix in air cooled cars and no failure. i suspect if your engine is getting to hot fo the pertronix, you got more serius probelms, and have to ask why is my engine running too hot? mixture, timing, mechanical issues?????

the pertronix seems to run fine in aircooled cars for me, no heating related issues. You dizzie should NOT be too hot in a correctly running 914 is my opinion and experience

I have been running a Petronics for about 2 weeks and have noticed the car starts better. I don't think it's making more power or faster, but I appreciate having one less thing to monkey with. I do have the old points in my toolbox though! Hopefully I'll see some MPG improvement.

Are you serious? Points? With electrical (it's not electronic) injection? What could possibly be the benefit? The only reason to stay with points is having a nuke proof car.

What, you aren't pretected from EMP? With carbs and points, I'll outrun the blast wave, easy. Yeah... 2 more milliseconds, thanks to those italian Webers.



Actually, I've got a crane dizzy. Awesome, it is.