I get an urgent call from my wife this afternoon!

"Everyone is OK!"

"Our son has had a minor accident on the way home from school. His sister was in the car and luckily they are all OK. Please come fast. The car is stuck. It's less than a block from home."


WTF?? Stuck?

Stuck in the side of another car?

Stuck under the back of a pickup truck?

Stuck in a tree?

Well, as I come down the very steep, rainy, slick hill and around the tight corner to our house, I see our son's 1986 Audi 4000CS parked at a 45 degree angle in the neighbor's driveway.

How the F*** could it be stuck on a nice concrete driveway? Then I notice the skid marks over the curb, through the lawn and past the tree onto the neighbor's driveway. Oooooooh! That's how he parked it at a 45 degree angle! I also note that the car is not setting level due to the right front wheel being OUTSIDE the wheel well and a good 5" rear of the wheel well. It's totaled (financially).

But Now ... The $39 Question:

Should I make him fix the car as a learning experience or just buy him another inexpensive car?

"Tough Love" or the easy way out.

What are your experiences?

We bought the $900 car with the stipulation that he take his sisters to and from school and after school sports. He has been very good about carting his sisters around.

Damages: Bent front wheels, bent left front control arm, bent right tie rod, trashed right front hub/strut (ripped the ball joint right out of the hub assembly), ripped the axle out of the outer CV, both front fenders dented by the tires, yadda, yadda, yadda ...

I found a fellow Audi lover that may split a $475 parts car with us.

So it looks like either the '86 4000CS or the parts car will be going to the scapper. I'm a noob to scapping. Can you get paid for the scap value of the metal or do you have to pay to have a car hauled off?

Thanks

Eddie

Easy.
Buy him a few tools for Xmas...

Tell him if he doesn't fix what he broke he'll have to walk..
When I turned 15 my dad gave me a 300 buck Super Beetle and a JC Whitmney catalog to build my car. I gave it hell and when it broke I HAD to fix it, or I stayed home.....

He'll learn more from HAVING to repair it than anything he'll ever learn in school and he damn sure won't crash it again!

Buy the parts car and have him fix it. If the car runs good the parts to be replaced are not that hard to replace. He will get a slight punishment and learn how to fix a car at the same time. Trust me I have been through this myself when I was in highschool. Glad to hear that everyone is O.K.

Its a great learning experience and he'll never do it again. That's the deal my dad and I had; I get to fix whatever breaks when I am driving his truck (my daily driver).

Luckily everyone is ok.

My take is that you bought him the car in exchange for labor. He satisfied his end of the bargain by driving his sisters around. So that 'trade' was fair and square.

If the car had been given as "Here's a car, it's the only one we're buying you. If you damage it, it's your responsiblity," then I could see making him fix it.

Do you want to start driving all the kids around?

Actually, it sounds like a rather involved repair. Not they kind of thing that I would set in front of a beginner.

What Jake said.

Even if it costs ya more bucks than buying him a another car.

In the long term. It might be one of the best gifts you could ever give your son.

Cheers,

Clayton

I would not make this a first repair unless you are going to directly supervise and check the work. Also +1 on the taking the other kids to school.

Another thing I would say is that I have read something about not making a big deal out of a crash. If you get super pissed and make the puneshment severe the opposite of what you might think occurs. The kid is way to uptight behind the wheel and the odds of another crash actually increases.

Sounds like driving conditions were not optimal so it could have just been a beginner mistake.

At least everyones OK , Got the inevitable first one out of the way.
tough call ?, tough love or taxi dad.

Had my son fix his (I did ,he went and got parts /help), Not that bad though. He drove it untill he bought a new car.

As long as you have paper work , junkies will come get it or you can drop it off at salvage yard .

I understand the reasins you bought the car for him. Cool. I had to pay for everything once I turned 16, and it was the best lesson my parents ever gave me. One of my early cars needed a head job, and I had never even changed oil up to that point. It really taught me a lot and made me want to learn more about the cars. Plus, you break it you fix it

Now if you want to just get rid of it there are guys all over that will come tow it away for free. I have some #s of people that will if you want them.

Head repair is ok for a first job. My concern is suspension and brakes and all his kids are riding in the thing. Plus, someone who knows what to look for need to be under there inspecting for cracked mounting points and what not.

If a head repair goes south it will quit running ... if suspension or brakes fail it could be accident #2

I bought my own first car... I will buy my daughters first... I did wreck one of my parents cars when I was young and my dad just said 'once your fucked your fucked be more cautious next time'

whats important is they come out of it o.k.
i made both my boys buy, support their own car adictions from the start. they even covered threir own insurance. to this day i dont know if it was good or not, it seems to depend on their personality! the 21 is moved out on his own with his own expenses. guess what his mom and i did tonight... you guessed it, met up with him to check his honda that "someone hit on the freeway". it wasnt bad just front fender and alignment and the other driver actually admitted fault for the report. the 17 year old on the otherhand shakes his head at his brother and seems to have learned from his brothers mistakes.
i've tried to give them a legal outlet growing up (dirt bikes and go-carts). again i dont know if my plan was good or bad. i really think it depends on the kids personality.

Do you really want all of your kids in that car after it is repaired by someone with little mechanical knowledge.
CCL

When I was young and really stupid (versus now older and just stupid) I wadded up my car and my dad made my scrap it. I had to remove EVERY single bolt and screw from the car and then cut it up with a sawsall and haul it to a scrap metal place. It took a few weeks (some of those bolts were really hard to get to after killing a tree.) This was a great lesson for me. It took me a while to fix the car in the first place then I was stupid and I wrecked it - then I scrapped it. My next car was much happier and I was a safer driver.
If the car is not really ruined have him fix it, it's good for the soul - and your kid

oh yeah i forgot to mention earlier after my 21 year old (then 18) put his 68 mustang into the back end of his friends car and totaled them both (not paying attention, stopped at a stop sign). luckily insurance money covered enough for a zx3 escort with dual airbags- that saved he and his girl friends lives one dark wet night and a cinder block wall later.

since then that is our standard for new drivers has been upped. kennys d.d. (95 maxima). he can make his choice at 18 if he wants to sell and get something else then. as our insurance guy says "there is 100% chance a new driver WILL get in a wreck"

Was the accident your son's fault?
Was there any damage to your neighbors property?

If it was your son's fault, tell him he can drive a car when he can afford to pay his own insurace and buy his own vehicle.

He will treat the car differently when it is his money that keeps it going - especially if he has to walk for a while to save up for it.

Zach

I seriously doubt if you or your son could fix that kind of damage at home. Make him buy his own car and he'll treat it a little better.

I'm amazed that only one poster has asked the significant question!!

Was it your son's fault!!!!!!!

If so, do you feel that he learned anything from it??

If he has learned anything of lasting value (and nobody was hurt), then having totaled the car was worth it.

Here is a story that I REALLY don't like telling;

I totaled out a 69 Camaro while driving drunk. I hit a parked truck and flipped the Camaro on it's side. I was the only person hurt. This was all in a "black-out" and I don't remember the accident (is it really considered an accident).

This was better than 15 years ago and I have been totally sober ever since.

I was wrong in my actions! I learned and took the required steps to prevent it from happening again. I wish I still had that Camaro, but it was worth losing it, to end my irresponsable actions.

Wes V

These cars are a pain in the arse to work on for professional mech. much less guy's starting out if there is no damage to the sterring rack I would say fix it BUT if the rack has any damage even a bent tie rod run from it it just isn't worth trying to fix. The steering racks on these old AUDI's are major problem and are a pain to repair and even harder to get a good used or a correct rebuilt one at that.

I agree with Wes' s question... Maybe it's the cop in me that wants to know if he took the opportunity to see if he could drift an Audi sedan, if he was texting some hottie, or had to swerve to miss the neighbor's cat. I believe each case warrants different actions. Accidents are exactly that--accidents. Don't punish too severely if it wasn't due to gross negligence. Still, you need to send the message that you don't get a different ride every time you crash the one your currently in--and that automobile crashes can have dire consequences even at low speeds. That's how my love for aircooled started. I brought home a 1.8 GPA from a university that cost $9000 a semester in 1986 (a fortune at the time). My parents took away my sweet little '72 250 Benz sedan, and I bought a '70 Ghia convertible that became my daily driver for the next five years. That started my wrenching on aircooled career. Here I am 20 years later....

I'm with McMark on this one. I wouldn't want my kid driving around in a FWD car with a badly bent front end that he had repaired. Could be setting him up for another shunt. I would set the standard at if someone gave you the car in it's present condition for free, would you bother to fix it. If not it is ready for the junk yard.

You are all talking like the whole front end is toast. You don't even know what the damage is yet. If it is a matter of ball joints or something as easy as that why not have him fix it? Even if they tow it away he should at least look at fixing it. He said it is totaled, but it doesn't take much to total a 900 dollar car.

1) Your son damaged a $900, 20 year old Audi. Write it off.

2) No one was hurt (physically) but likely were/are scared and embarrased. Not sure I saw why/how the accident occured but depending on what happened, it might color my reactions differently

3) More importantly, is who will fix the neighbors yard/curb etc? Perhaps THIS is the work that your son should be responsible for fixing (or paying to have fixed). This might be a better "teach" than having him try to repair a car that a professional might charge $2K to fix. (on a $900 car!)

Maybe he should come up with 1/2 the money for the next $900 beater?

Its an all-wheel drive car!

What Jake said.



Weird. My dad did the EXACT same thing $300 beetle (except it was a 66 regular and it was a J.C. Whitney catalog).

300.00 dollar turbo Corvair , I had to rebuild engine before I could drive it. Ran great autocrossed it alot.

Eddie , any damage update ?

It was either his fault, the weather’s fault or the locking brake’s fault depending on who you listen to. We are assuming he was driving too fast for the conditions. He has only had his license since early September so he has not had very much experience with the wet driving conditions in Seattle. The road is quite old concrete that has worn down to the aggregate. Very slippery when wet. Live and learn … I hope!

The plan is to have my son fix the car with my assistance as a learning experience. I figure if we just buy him another car we would be guilty of not lavishing him with "Tough Love". He is spoiled enough as it is ...

After the accident my son and I tried to get the car to “roller” status in order to get it the 200 feet down to our driveway. On the right front, we removed the broken axle, straightened the bent tie rod and attempted to insert the lower ball joint stub into the front hub assembly. The hole was badly egg shaped so we were only able to partially insert the stub into the hole … enough to get the keeper bolt in … “kind of”. I hoped it would be enough to get the car 200 feet. On the left front the damage seems to be limited to a bent “A” arm. The “A” arm was bent enough that the wheel would not rotate due to the tire rubbing the fender. We attached a chain hoist to the “A” arm and the frame and then pulled until there was just enough clearance for the wheel to rotate.

So far so good.

We hoisted the front of the car with a floor jack and rotated the car until it was pointing downhill. We started rolling the car out into the street! WooHoo! As the car rolled out of the neighbor’s driveway, there was too much force on the broken right front steering knuckle and the ball popped out again. !@#$@#@$! The tire jammed into the fender and we were stuck again. I decided to just get the car to the curb for the night. I jacked up the front end with the floor jack and let gravity push the car downhill to a nice parking spot.

Hopefully my buddy with his flatbed car hauler will be able to make it by tomorrow. His transmission was acting up today while he was transporting an early ’60 Rolls Royce. I couldn’t get out of scheduled meetings all day today so we are shooting for tomorrow.

We should be able to get the car in the carport tomorrow and tear into it enough to see if it’s worth repairing. I didn’t see any obvious frame damage. The engine and transmission seem unscathed, and the brakes still function.

I have sourced the parts in Tacoma from an AudiWorld member with a parts car. We will be going down Sunday with tools and $$$ if Saturday's autopsy goes well.


Thanks for all the advise.

Eddie

Eddie who's going to take the sisters around while you are repairing the wreck? It seems to me you will be the one actually repairing the damage. I did that in the past and my one son just kept on wrecking them. I don't know the answer but the time you spend with your son can be really educational for him. The easy way out may not be the best way out. Both of my sons wrecked their first cars and we repaired them. More than once. After my oldest wrecked his 72 super beetle three times he finally totaled it. I made him completely dissasemble it and saved the drive train and suspension and interior. He's 39 and still having wrecks. What can I say? Good luck on your project. Maybe once will be enough.

Charliew

Many moons ago I wrecked my 1st car which I bought with some help from parents.

69 Buick Lesabre Drum brakes and bald tires rainy night and not paying attention, Rear end car in front of me stl no idea why they stopped.
Anyway had to fix it myself and deal with insurance and lawsuit. makes an 18 yr old kid put "his big boy pants" on.

Just a taste of life that still pays dividends 30+ years later.

My son is slowly working at fixing the 914 he flipped back in March. Slowly. Very slowly. I help occasionally and give advice. I think he learned from his accident and is learning from working on it. I would like to have it back, but if I just go ahead and take over working on it, what would he learn? And I might not get it done any faster.

I have another suggestion also. Make it a priority to get him (and his sisters when appropriate) into a driving school, or whatever they call them, put on by a responsible car club. Porsche? BMWCCA? I know they have one especially for teens (Street Survival, I think) My kids all out grew it before scheduling could work for them.

You need to be first and foremost extremely thankful that it is only a car you are worrying about, and not the health of your son or one of his friends. Keep this in mind most of all. Then, worry about the car. With the first thoguht about your son, the second item, the car, becomes immediately much less important.

The main thing is to try to make sure he learns from the accident, and drives safely from now on. Was he horseing around or drinking, etc? If so, you need some tough punishment. If it was a stupid mistake that young people make, then just make it a more gentle learning experience. Making him repair the car may be an option, but it is not the only one. How about grades in school? In our state, having decent grades automatically gets a student a scholarship to college (or tech school), pending upon keeping a B average. This could easily mean up to 32,000$. It is amazing how small of a percentage of the kids actually get this, or keep it after they get into college or tech school because they just goof around.

If you fix the car yourself, have him help you. You may teach him something, and also have some time to spend with your son. Maybe turn it into a positive experience in addition to a punishment. He is about the age where he will be soon going to college or moving out, and then you might miss him. This is speaking from experience, as both of my sons are now off at college, and I do miss them. JoeO

Yes, first and foremost we are thankful that there were no injuries. I’m also very happy that there were no other cars, police officers, or insurance companies involved. Washington has a graduated driver licensing system that variable restrictions and enforcement for drivers between 16 and 18 years old. For the first six months, they can only drive with family members in the car – no joyrides with their buddies in the car (yahoo). Also, if they have multiple offences in the first six months, there license can go bye-bye until they are 18 years old. I think it is a great idea.

It seemed that he just made a dumb mistake. He is pretty good kid. He’s pulling close to a 4.0 average taking mostly AP (advanced placement) courses, hasn’t has any run-ins with the law, no pregnant girlfriends, etc.

My son and I attended a basic driving skills event with the local Alfa Romeo Club about a month ago. The stations included threshold braking, wet skid pad, auto X, and oval track. The event seemed to be more tailored to performance driving than safety and collision avoidance for the street.

I suspect that my driving habits may be a factor. Both my wife and I drive a bit aggressively (even though I have only one ticket in the last 20+ years – the first ten years are a different story!).

He was on the way home from school with one of his sisters. I sure hope he wasn't drinking! He seemed pretty sober (and somber) when I arrived within 20 minutes of the event.

I can’t believe has fast time seems to go when the kids get older. I’m hoping by making him repair the car with my help, we will be able to spend some bonding time together … and he might actually learn something … heck, I might actually learn something!

We need to get the car repaired so I can spend time learning to play guitar … that’s seems to be my son’s current passion. I want to learn to play so we have a common pastime in addition to snowboarding/skiing. Our last ski trip didn’t go so well for me. I was trying not to let some punk kid (my 15 year old son) show me up on the slopes. I decided to follow him off the one last jump before we headed off to the car. Well, I’m still recovering from the broken fibula. I had the hardware removed about six weeks ago so I could attempt to get a ski boot on again. Of course I didn’t listen to the surgeon and stay off it for the first week which resulted in extended healing time … but there was no one else to crew chief for the four hour enduro. What’s a man to do?

Eddie

Well I thought I would give my brief experience since everyone else has. I am only twenty, my mother bought my first car a 95 celica st with 230k on the odometer. I had to pay my insurance, and either fix it or pay for it to be fixed when I broke it. I still have it, its at 248k now, I got it at 17. I have replaced the transmission in it, which took several weeks because I work and go to college. Your son doesn't depend on his car like I do so he didn't have that added stress, so I am glad you are making him fix it. What I did was stupid because it was a big issue with school, but I learned a hell of a lot doing what I did.

PS. Make him get a job and start paying for upkeep on his car. Fixing it is temporary, if he is like most of my friends he will take better car of it when it is his coin going to the car. The ones where mommy and daddy pay for gas and insurance look at it as a toy, and treat it as such.

30 day driving privilage suspention. AFTER he fixes the car and REPAIRS the damage to the neighbors yard. the condition of the pavement is a weak excuse. he's very fortunate the kind neighbors didn't call the cops. your son might consider thanking them for that. a fresh ticket on his conditional licence would prob shove his insurance rates thru the roof.

k

I like that line. A lot.

Hey... let me know if I can help with the guitar thing.