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TJB/914
Hi all,

I've been looking to purchase a laptop computer to use as a desk top replacement and occasional travel computer for home & business. My wife was watching QVC & ordered my Christmas gift on their special offer w/Dell's Inspiron 1720 notebook with 3GB Ram, Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 3-yr warranty, 9-cell battery, etc. It has Microsoft Office Home & Student 2007 along with a long list of goodies. The price was excellent @ about $1,800.00 with router. I've been reading a lot about Dell's quality & really bad service. What do you guys think about Dell??? I have time to cancell, because delivery is due to ship late Jan 08.

I was planning to research computer's in Jan/Feb. I was thinking about Lenovo's ThinkPad Notebook or ____??? Price is not the issue, I am ready to purchase a good one. I just don't like problems & will keep my new notebook 4-5 years before I replace.

Help, Help with suggestions.

Tom

ConeDodger
TBlizz,
I have a Dell Laptop and it hasn't needed any service whatsoever so I cannot comment on bad customer service. I have to be constantly connected so when I am not on this box, I am on the laptop. Except of course when driving. The laptop outperforms my home system in some ways.
Although, $1800.00 sounds a bit expensive. Check Dells Outlet on line. You can probably get the same system for less through them. Reconditioned is fine too..
TJB/914
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 20 2007, 08:38 AM) *

TBlizz,
I have a Dell Laptop and it hasn't needed any service whatsoever so I cannot comment on bad customer service. I have to be constantly connected so when I am not on this box, I am on the laptop. Except of course when driving. The laptop outperforms my home system in some ways.
Although, $1800.00 sounds a bit expensive. Check Dells Outlet on line. You can probably get the same system for less through them. Reconditioned is fine too..


Rob, thanks for the info. sounds like you have no issues with Dell. I forgot to say the one I am getting is the 17" screen model & thinking I only need the 15" screen because of wgt. etc.
Money magazine just published a scathing article on Dell's service about their overseas technical support group that scare the bee-jeebies out of me. The article said beware when you need technical/warranty service, they don't talk english very well & only read from the manual. They don't know anything about the USA or where Texas or Chicago is located:sick:

T
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Thomas J Bliznik @ Dec 20 2007, 09:22 AM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 20 2007, 08:38 AM) *

TBlizz,
I have a Dell Laptop and it hasn't needed any service whatsoever so I cannot comment on bad customer service. I have to be constantly connected so when I am not on this box, I am on the laptop. Except of course when driving. The laptop outperforms my home system in some ways.
Although, $1800.00 sounds a bit expensive. Check Dells Outlet on line. You can probably get the same system for less through them. Reconditioned is fine too..


Rob, thanks for the info. sounds like you have no issues with Dell. I forgot to say the one I am getting is the 17" screen model & thinking I only need the 15" screen because of wgt. etc.
Money magazine just published a scathing article on Dell's service about their overseas technical support group that scare the bee-jeebies out of me. The article said beware when you need technical/warranty service, they don't talk english very well & only read from the manual. They don't know anything about the USA or where Texas or Chicago is located:sick:

T

TBlizz,
The 17" screen explains the price. I think pretty much everyone is going with overseas tech though... Even JC Penny is using them for collections. Yopu got a credit card from them and they must have sent it to the wrong address. She bought like $200 worth of stuff and never got the bill. All of a sudden she is getting calls from people with Indian or Pakistani accents and they call 5-6 times a day. I went up to JC Penny to find out what was going on. Turns out someone input the wrong address and the bills and card had come back to them. I paid them off and closed the account. They apologized for the calls. The people who work there are as concerned about the trend as you are.
Beamer13
Rob is exactly right. Alot of the major companies are outsourcing for their cust. serv. Unfortunately there's not much getting away from that. My IT dept. guys suggested a Dell when I was looking for a laptop for my wife. They are strong advocates from an IT end of things
r_towle
Its fine, Dell is working it out.
The tech support is a fact of life with most high tech now.
Alot have started to move the support back to the states, but its a slow process.

Two things. First, most computers are all the same now, lots of the same parts.
the quality of the assemble and chip sets is always an issue.

Turn it on and leave it on for at least two weeks, never shut if off.
This burn in period will heat all the chips up and any hardware issues will show up.

I love your wife, she needs to talk to my wife.

Rich
LvSteveH
This is pretty long, but I'll cover most of the questions you've asked.

The big thing with Dells is convenience. They aren't necessarily going to benchmark the fastest test speeds, but in the real world they are fine, and although the warranty support can be very annoying, there are ways around it. Their standard costs are pretty much in line with the industry, but if you can find some good coupon codes they can be a deal. I think they've cut back on the coupon program, but if you were creative you used to be able to stack coupons and occasionally get a system for about half the going rate. It took some work, but it was half the fun. Some of the money saving websites have threads that will list the current specials and creative ways people have found to manipulate them.

When you are configuring a system you'll find the price steadily rising due to "feature creep", you keep adding one thing after another and before you know it you are at $1800 bucks. If you need the latest greatest system out there and that gives you everything you need and a good support package, then it's fine.

In terms of service, they are exactly right. You can spend a couple hours getting no significant help for your problem. Sometimes they will give you an elaborate set of instructions that take a long time to implement that have nothing what so ever to do with the issue you are having. This is also happening with other makes, dell is not alone. It's just another measure to keep costs down and stay competitive. If you know a bit about computers and can identify the problem on your own, you can ask to speak to the 2nd tier support who will usually take care of you.

The other way around it is Dell's "Gold Customer Support". I've generally found them to be staffed by native english speakers who aren't too hard to deal with. You may be able to upgrade the standard service package to gold support for a fee, even if you buy it from QVC. A few times when I was short on time or patience I've called gold support even if I didn't have gold support on that system. They were pretty cool about helping, although they told me they weren't allowed to help me in the future. One time I actually had a guy say, "my boss said I'm not allowed to talk to you any more", but we had already found the problem by that point.

The Dell outlet can have some pretty good deals if you are patient and know what to look for. Pricing on there can be all over the map, and when you see what you want for the price you want you have to jump on it. I got my wife a loaded Latitude with 2gb of ram, 7200 rpm hard drive, an upgraded processor, two batteries, etc for a little less than $700 delivered. That was about a year ago and it's still running like a champ. Keep in mind that it doesn't have the extended service plan and I figured it was pretty much disposable at that price.

With Dell outlet, the refurbished and blemished models are usually the best value. Typically you won't be able to tell the difference from new. Sometimes I wonder if they use it as a marketing ploy because I often can't find anything wrong at all.

Last but not least, the 17" screen. If you are going to use it as a true desk top replacement, it's the best thing since sliced bread. If you plan to use it as a mobile unit, like sitting on the couch surfing porsche stuff, or taking it on trips, I'd personally go down to the 15". It's much more portable and still has a great screen if you get the upgraded version with high resolution. I think I'm running 1680 x 1050 and it's a good compromise. It may take a little getting used to and you may have to adjust the icon and text size to suit you, but once it's dialed in it's great.

I hope that helps.
TJB/914
QUOTE(LvSteveH @ Dec 20 2007, 10:38 AM) *

This is pretty long, but I'll cover most of the questions you've asked.

The big thing with Dells is convenience. They aren't necessarily going to benchmark the fastest test speeds, but in the real world they are fine, and although the warranty support can be very annoying, there are ways around it. Their standard costs are pretty much in line with the industry, but if you can find some good coupon codes they can be a deal. I think they've cut back on the coupon program, but if you were creative you used to be able to stack coupons and occasionally get a system for about half the going rate. It took some work, but it was half the fun. Some of the money saving websites have threads that will list the current specials and creative ways people have found to manipulate them.

When you are configuring a system you'll find the price steadily rising due to "feature creep", you keep adding one thing after another and before you know it you are at $1800 bucks. If you need the latest greatest system out there and that gives you everything you need and a good support package, then it's fine.

In terms of service, they are exactly right. You can spend a couple hours getting no significant help for your problem. Sometimes they will give you an elaborate set of instructions that take a long time to implement that have nothing what so ever to do with the issue you are having. This is also happening with other makes, dell is not alone. It's just another measure to keep costs down and stay competitive. If you know a bit about computers and can identify the problem on your own, you can ask to speak to the 2nd tier support who will usually take care of you.

The other way around it is Dell's "Gold Customer Support". I've generally found them to be staffed by native english speakers who aren't too hard to deal with. You may be able to upgrade the standard service package to gold support for a fee, even if you buy it from QVC. A few times when I was short on time or patience I've called gold support even if I didn't have gold support on that system. They were pretty cool about helping, although they told me they weren't allowed to help me in the future. One time I actually had a guy say, "my boss said I'm not allowed to talk to you any more", but we had already found the problem by that point.

The Dell outlet can have some pretty good deals if you are patient and know what to look for. Pricing on there can be all over the map, and when you see what you want for the price you want you have to jump on it. I got my wife a loaded Latitude with 2gb of ram, 7200 rpm hard drive, an upgraded processor, two batteries, etc for a little less than $700 delivered. That was about a year ago and it's still running like a champ. Keep in mind that it doesn't have the extended service plan and I figured it was pretty much disposable at that price.

With Dell outlet, the refurbished and blemished models are usually the best value. Typically you won't be able to tell the difference from new. Sometimes I wonder if they use it as a marketing ploy because I often can't find anything wrong at all.

Last but not least, the 17" screen. If you are going to use it as a true desk top replacement, it's the best thing since sliced bread. If you plan to use it as a mobile unit, like sitting on the couch surfing porsche stuff, or taking it on trips, I'd personally go down to the 15". It's much more portable and still has a great screen if you get the upgraded version with high resolution. I think I'm running 1680 x 1050 and it's a good compromise. It may take a little getting used to and you may have to adjust the icon and text size to suit you, but once it's dialed in it's great.

I hope that helps.


Steve, Rob, Rich & Beamer,

Thanks, I learned a lot and feel more comfortable with Dell.

Tom
banger
You could always buy a mac. I am much happier now that I dumped the PC. Got tired of things crashing, and was even more tired of the Sony Vaio that I had. (never buy a vaio) Customer service at apple speaks english as well, and their support is very good.
Loser_Cruiser
If your worried about weight the inspirion series is gonna be heavy even at the 15". I went with the Latitud series a year ago when I started school. With only 2 gigs of ram and a 2ghz centrino duo its plenty fast. I had a cd drive fail on me and a battery but as long as you are somewhat computer literate you can usually get help fairly fast. Dell quality seems to me from what I have seen to be as good if not better than alot of other brands such as hp compaq and the toshiba. With the specs you listed thats not a bad price especially at that size. Should be a nice computer.
Rand
QUOTE(banger @ Dec 20 2007, 03:04 PM) *

You could always buy a mac. I am much happier now that I dumped the PC. Got tired of things crashing, and was even more tired of the Sony Vaio that I had. (never buy a vaio) Customer service at apple speaks english as well, and their support is very good.


Over the past 12 years, I have bought, deployed, and overseen the service for over 1500 Dell computers. Everyone has their different experiences, but overall I have been very pleased with Dell and do not believe for an instant that any other company has averaged better overall satisfaction. No, I'm not saying they are the shit. But big picture, they are as good as anything else out there and better than most.

NO company is without problems. Gotta step back and look at the bigger picture.

I love Macs too. But in the business world they are not THE solution. And 99.999999% of the problems people have with PCs who claim a Mac solved them all..... Well the problem was not just because of the PC platform. Sorry. Bzzt.

happy11.gif
jim912928
For longevity and ruggedness (if you are comparing dell, hp, lenovo) the lenovo is the best hands down. I've put in all of those at work over the past 10 years and the least amount of issues have always been with the thinkpad (IBM then Lenovo). The case is much more rugged and the features (shock/security/etc.) really set it ahead. You pay for it though.

For me I have Lenovo's...for my college kids I bought cheap compaq's (hp's) just in case they left them somewhere!
banger
My fathers company does onsite service for Dell, and he has plenty of stories about their problems. Although he does comment that the Sony Vaio is far worse than a dell.
TJB/914
QUOTE(jim912928 @ Dec 20 2007, 04:16 PM) *

For longevity and ruggedness (if you are comparing dell, hp, lenovo) the lenovo is the best hands down. I've put in all of those at work over the past 10 years and the least amount of issues have always been with the thinkpad (IBM then Lenovo). The case is much more rugged and the features (shock/security/etc.) really set it ahead. You pay for it though.

For me I have Lenovo's...for my college kids I bought cheap compaq's (hp's) just in case they left them somewhere!


Jim,
agree.gif I was thinking Lenovo before my wife gave me a Dell Christmas gift. I was just on Lenovo's web site for re-furbished computer's & you can get super deals at almost half off. Steve gave me the idea (above post) to check out Dell's outlet store and Dell's outlets also have huge discounts. Steve's suggestion opened up a whole new world on buying computers. Looks like all computer company's have outlet stores with dent/scratch & re-furbished computers with big discounts. Most have new factory warranty's with big discounts. I think I'll cancell with Dell & look for a better deal.

Great information, knowledge is power. pray.gif

Tom
Katmanken
My wife bought a used Dell latitude from Dell and what a piece of crap. Move it and some of the keys stop working. The fix of a new keyboard didn't help and accordig to many other poor souls, never will. Only fix that works is when it goes flakey, unplug the batteies for 5 minutes, and try to see if that fixes the problem. It might work after 3 tries.

Then Dell sent me an Email about me buying a large screen TV and shipping it care of Oscar to the sticks of Kalifornia using my E-mail address. I thought it was a scam but I was able to go online to Dell, and request my unknown account password, which then popped up in my E-mail. Imagine my shock when I was able to get into 'my" account and peruse the details of my "account" and all the personal information. In fact, other than having my name and e-mail address, the account belonged to somebody else in Florida at a non-existant address.

So then I got to go through DELL HELL on the phone trying to talk to somebody. DELL HELL operators are trained to talk patiently to you, and when they transfer you to their boss, they hang you up. I was desperate going through the endless loops of "make your selection from the following list of options" that go on and on and on in circles to even get to a human operator. All accounts are social security number based and imagine my surprise when I got an operator after punching mine in. After six hours of the above HELL. a voice said my account was OK. All they did was lock me out of the account access on the main page. Imagine my shock when the dumb idiots didn't even know that I still had access to "my" account by simply going to another web page such as service and accessing the account to watch the order process.

Buy one if you want, but the product is crap, the DELL HELL is unbelievable, and there are enough holes in their "secure" system for an idiot like me to figure out how to get in AFTER they locked me out on the main page. Wanna trust your social security number to that? Feeling lucky?????

Kennyneverbuyinganythingfromdell
flesburg
A year ago after two Toshiba's and one Sony I gave up on pc's and based upon feedback from the pc users I knew, except for our local network guru, and bought a MacBook Pro 15" with all of the ram I could get and the biggest HD available.

I bought Office for Mac. I use Firefox for my browser, and Mail (Apple) for my e-mail. The network guy has it set up so I can get on our office network (Windows servers) from my office as well as from home.

I can do what I need to do, and only have one piece of software that I would like to use that will not work on the Mac. That one is called "E-copy".

After the time it took to get used to system 10, I really like the machine compared to a pc and with all the horror stories re Vista and retrogrades to XP, I am glad I do not have a windows machine. In a year, I have not had one "error, windows has to shutdown" nor have I had one "green screen of death".

Maybe what I really like is not having to deal with Windows.

Just my 2 cents.
banger
You can also run windows on the mac if there are programs that are windows only. Windows runs and crashes just as well on a mac as it does on a PC.
swl
With the option of dual boot the mac is a true player now for the home environment. Still sucks in the Active Directory world but kicks butt for the home user. Apple does absolutely fantastic engineering and their hardware is about as good as they come. iLife is great software, Office for Mac is acceptable if a bit quirky. Firefox works fine but there can be problems with web apps designed for PC. We have some still running at 6 years old. Check it out - it is a solid option.

In the Wintel world there are good and bad in all of the major players line. I've been buying toshibas for about 5 years and have no problems but that is in an environment were we have our own staff to work out software issues which are 99% of the help desk calls. Can't say how their service compares to Dell since we don't really call them that much.

Remember that even within Dell there are different quality level of machines - you really get what you pay for. Points of failure for a laptop include:
The hinge, more precisely how the cables route throught the hinge.
Backlight bulbs for the monitor.
Hard drives (big time)
cooling fans (again big time)
keyboards
power connectors (sometimes the solder joints break loose from flexing)

It is really hard to predict which manufacturer/model is going to have hardware problems - the hardware just changes too much. Buy tier 1 and stay away from the entry level stuff and you should be fine.

But really - go have a look at a Mac.
Pat Garvey
Inspiron's are a bit heavy in all configurations, but mine has worked well.

Did have a problem with the motherboard early on, but called tech support & had a shipping box next day & turnaround in 3 total. All on Dell's nickel.

No gripes here, other than being a bit heavy. Nothing, compared to the 40 pound "lugabout" I had in the mid 80's!
Pat
Eric_Ciampa
I agree with the others that suggested that you look at the mac. A few years ago I would have never even considered it but a buddy of mine got a macbook pro at the same time I bought a new HP and after watching how Apple treated him and how HP treated me (even after I bout the $300+ extended service contract) I started looking seriously at macs.

Now, I am a happy owner of a Macbook and don't think I will be going back. Don't forget to compare the specs of the notebooks. Apple oftentimes appears more expensive because they refuse to produce low-quality products. The operating system is intuitive and purposeful, tech support out does any PC, and they are just going to become more popular in the days ahead.

I should say that I have nothing against PC's, in fact I used to HATE macs and mac users (you know the people I am talking about) but you really should check them out before you make a purchase - especially if you are concerned about tech support. But what do I know?
Air_Cooled_Nut
Ok, so I don't have to repeat myself, here's an insider's recommendation:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178470

I noticed in the OP that you mention "business". If in any way having your computer system down will cost you money in your business then you NEED to make sure your warranty is meant for business and NOT a general consumer warranty...like the only option you'll likely get at Best Buy, CostCo, Wal-Mart, etc.

HP customer support has a new and better support team, at least where I am. We don't have managers that tell us to stop helping a customer (unless that customer is really off the deep end in assholioness) and we try our best to make the customer happy. There is no one "above" us, in fact, our team managers (supervisors) do not have the authority nor ability to order or repair systems!

I really can care less what people buy or what OS they think is the best. To each their own. But for the love of God PLEASE make sure you don't cheap out on the warranty!
Pnambic
www.gottadeal.com posts Dell coupon codes regularly.

I've had an inspiron 6400 for about a year now and I'm pleased. Nary a problem....except my version of Norton wasn't compatible with Vista...

Never had to call tech support on any computer though. I build them in my spare time so I've never been that stumped. But this is my first real foray into Laptops, so we'll see how I do.
orthobiz
Mac is where it's at.

biz
cooltimes
QUOTE(Thomas J Bliznik @ Dec 20 2007, 09:36 AM) *


Help, Help with suggestions.

Tom


If you haven't committed to a system already, this is a one day deal at Woot's.
Ends at midnight.

http://www.woot.com/

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