stateofidleness
Jan 6 2008, 08:09 PM
i have seen pictures of "aftermarket" intakes on some of the 914's here and was just wondering a few things:
1. are these home-made or bought somewhere?
2. how do you connect all the vacuum hoses to an aftermarket one?
3. any pics?
this is what im kinda goin for:
(i know its a bmw, but its got the straight pipe and filter that i want)
Would this work? Please post some pics if you've done this "mod"
Thanks!
Rusty
Jan 6 2008, 08:15 PM
(waitin' on the Cap'n)
![popcorn[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
PeeGreen 914
Jan 6 2008, 08:20 PM
I like these questions. Hey Cap'n
stateofidleness
Jan 6 2008, 08:39 PM
uh oh... am i in trouble? lol
oh well... i know ive seen some and was just curious so... ill take a small ridicule for some new knowledge
alpha434
Jan 6 2008, 08:52 PM
Not bad, not bad.
The Cap'n is going to tell you about how much drek can go through those cone shaped filters.
So if you decide to do it, you could go to a finer filter and appease the captain.
Or you could poke a stick at your engine life and run filterless like all the cool kids do.
Bahhh!
Otherwise, very good HP gains have been seen JUST from collecting air from the corners of the engine bay, instead of the center.
Rusty
Jan 6 2008, 09:03 PM
Can you define "very good HP gains"?
I'm curious, because the layout of the engine bay doesn't seem very conducive for drawing fresh air from the corners. They are either tucked under the engine lid or forward-most edge of the rear trunklid. What objective testing can you point to to support your claim?
stateofidleness
Jan 6 2008, 09:05 PM
i was looking at a volant air filter which kind of makes the debris a non issue
i have this kind of filter on my chevy blazer and noticed instant gains and have had NO trouble at all with debris or other foreign material
ill go find my flame suit just in case though lol. no pics?
stateofidleness
Jan 6 2008, 09:21 PM
found this:
http://members.rennlist.com/demick/coldair.htmlhe reports gains but at an aesthetic cost lol...
i found the thread i was looking for!!!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...7&hl=intakethat was the intake i remember seeing, and it answers my question about the stock vacuum hose inputs
i see cap 'n's responses and i understand the reasoning, but a more open/cleaner engine compartment will be nice, paired with the correct air filter and proper positioning i think it could produce nice gains and aesthetic looks as well
plymouth37
Jan 7 2008, 12:34 AM
QUOTE(stateofidleness @ Jan 6 2008, 08:21 PM)
found this:
http://members.rennlist.com/demick/coldair.htmlhe reports gains but at an aesthetic cost lol...
Wow, a downspout intake, thats a new one!
Whatever works huh?
jd74914
Jan 7 2008, 10:22 AM
The Volant "filter" looks more like a precleaner for a real filter . . .
alpha434
Jan 7 2008, 10:12 PM
It's true.
Cone filter's aren't more efficient unless they let more drek through. Period. There's about the same or even less surface area to a cone filter than the stock filter, which means the mesh has to be less fine.
"i have this kind of filter on my chevy blazer and noticed instant gains and have had NO trouble at all with debris or other foreign material"
It's interesting that you defend this idea. How would you detect a problem with debris entering the intake? I mean, up until you suck something in, and it damages a valve seat, which won't seal any longer, and burns the head up.
The plain and simple is... by using a rougher filter, you will shorten the life of your engine. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't do it anyway- just don't try to justify or logic out of that end. It's a postulate.
stateofidleness
Jan 7 2008, 10:34 PM
well, i havent had any trouble with it and the filter is well-maintained
alpha434
Jan 8 2008, 10:23 PM
When was the last time you had the valves out?
You're saying that since it hasn't failed critically, it must be fine. That's the logic NASA used with the space shuttle program.
Do it, dude. Who cares.
ahdoman
Jan 8 2008, 11:03 PM
It's my understanding that the point of any type of "cool air" intake is exactly that - cool air. Simply replacing a good stock airfilter with something like a K&N or Volant and locating it in the same place as the stock intake probably won't do anything significant for performance. The trick is finding the location to mount the intake to get good direct cool air into the engine.
stateofidleness
Jan 9 2008, 09:36 AM
it's already been tested that relocating the stock filter to the corner of the bay produces results in HP
now ill probably end up doing it anyway, but was wondering the best place to get one
i still appreciate all the input
Brando
Jan 9 2008, 05:19 PM
Anyone else notice it'll be 3" diameter piping? That's a pretty big gain over the stock plumbing - even for a 2.0.
orange914
Jan 9 2008, 09:01 PM
QUOTE(Rusty @ Jan 6 2008, 07:03 PM)
Can you define "very good HP gains"?
What objective testing can you point to to support your claim?
QUOTE(ahdoman @ Jan 8 2008, 09:03 PM)
It's my understanding that the point of any type of "cool air" intake is exactly that - cool air. The trick is finding the location to mount the intake to get good direct cool air into the engine.
hot rod or some h.p. magazine did an article a ways back on cheap horse power and i think it claimed something like upwards of 5% h.p. gain for every 10 degrees cooler the intake charge, i may be off on that but i do remember it being worth doing. insulate your fuel lines also to keep you fuel temps as low as possible.
mike
Demick
Jan 10 2008, 10:02 AM
More like 1.5% more HP per 10 degrees (Celsius) drop in intake temp.
orange914
Jan 10 2008, 02:00 PM
so how many degrees has anyone here dropped there intake charge temp.? i would think you could pull 30 degree drop or 5 h.p. gain???
on 80 h.p. you could feel that...
mike
MrKona
Jan 10 2008, 02:06 PM
Guys,
Here's a couple pages from Grassroots Motorsports, Feb, 2002 in which they dyno tested a KN cone system on their freshly built 2.0 type IV.
Looks like you could eek out a couple more horsepower. Mounting the filter on your roof can't be that hard.
Standby... attachment coming...
Chris Pincetich
Jan 10 2008, 02:16 PM
Here's the one I made. Summit had this big GREEN filter on sale, I bought the tubing parts from plumbing department at a hardware store. The key pieces were ABS 45 deg 2.5" (I think) female coupler to press onto the throttle boddy (+hose clamp) and the 2.5->3.5" rubber coupler (heavy!). I drilled into the rubber piece for hose inputs, used the same steel nipple from my OEM elbow. It's a bit louder than the OEM set-up! I have a nice header and race a lot, so I wanted to maximize intake flow. I don't care what anybody says, I think it works and looks cool.
stateofidleness
Jan 10 2008, 03:14 PM
mm i like that, any closer pics or details on how you hooked up the nipples to the aftermarket piping? thats the only thing im cloudy on
andys
Jan 10 2008, 03:59 PM
I coincidentally ran across "This report presents the results of an ISO 5011 test of several air filters designed for the GM Duramax Diesel."
Pretty comprehensive with real data.
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htmAndys
JmuRiz
Jan 10 2008, 04:34 PM
QUOTE(Demick @ Jan 10 2008, 08:02 AM)
More like 1.5% more HP per 10 degrees (Celsius) drop in intake temp.
I agree with Demick...his research on it is about the most technical I've seen from a 914 guy...and better yet his results came from a trip to the hardware store and some experimenting
Chris Pincetich
Jan 11 2008, 01:24 PM
Here's another look. I found the rubber coupler to be a good part of the component becasue it was easy to drill and use press-fit hose barb squeezed tight into the flat side (I re-used OEM piece, but you could buy hose barb ends) and it allows for vibration dampening of the long assembly, which gets tossed around a lot.
Cap'n Krusty
Jan 11 2008, 03:14 PM
QUOTE(andys @ Jan 10 2008, 01:59 PM)
I coincidentally ran across "This report presents the results of an ISO 5011 test of several air filters designed for the GM Duramax Diesel."
Pretty comprehensive with real data.
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htmAndys
HEY! Wait a goldurn minute! Facts and truth have NO place in this discussion! Come back when you can bring some bling to the table ..........................
The Cap'n
SirAndy
Jan 11 2008, 04:08 PM
from the ISO test:
QUOTE
Now I am not saying that ALL aftermarket filters are useless. A paper filter does not do well if directly wetted or muddy. It may collapse. This is why many off-road filters are foam. It is a compromise between filtering efficiency and protection from a collapsed filter. Now how many of our trucks collapse their filters from mud and water? However, if a filter is using "better airflow" as their marketing tool, remember this....Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, Our trucks CAN'T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give. And this remains true until the filter is dirty enough to trip the air filter life indicator. At that point performance will decline somewhat. Replace the filter and get on with it.
McMark
Jan 11 2008, 07:02 PM
Just stick a "Powered by Porsche" sticker on there and really gain some HP!
markb
Jan 12 2008, 08:44 AM
I thought this was interesting:
"In the chart above it’s important to note the different test durations for each filter. The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."
Not good for the K&N folks.
blitZ
Jan 12 2008, 09:06 AM
It's not too surprising the K&N does not filter well. I used an Apexi on my car and truck with good results. They cost a few bucks, but if you choose to do a custom intake, I think it's worth it.
Filter comparison
Katmanken
Jan 12 2008, 09:35 AM
Not to point out the obvious,
But that big green paper looking filter is sitting under a perforated engine air intake grille...
Wonder what happens when it rains?
Think the paper gets wet?
Think the efficiency goes down?
Think the filter might collapse?
Think the engine sucks water droplets?
Just a coupla things to think about along with the real science....
And yes, it does sound cool....
Ken
orange914
Jan 12 2008, 01:40 PM
QUOTE(kwales @ Jan 12 2008, 07:35 AM)
Not to point out the obvious,
But that big green paper looking filter is sitting under a perforated engine air intake grille...
Wonder what happens when it rains?
Think the paper gets wet?
Think the efficiency goes down?
Think the filter might collapse?
Think the engine sucks water droplets?
Just a coupla things to think about along with the real science....
And yes, it does sound cool....
Ken
i was thinkin' the same. it probably isnt in those conditions, but a rain hat would be a good idea and maybe a tray of sorts below
mike
Katmanken
Jan 12 2008, 01:52 PM
One more to think about...
Intake pipe length....
You can tune your system based on the intake pipe length to cause a pulse reversion and potentially a small increase or decrease in power....
I know with my Vanagon flat opposed wasserboxer with Digifant ( a later version of L-jet), there is a hose going from the air filter/ air flap box and going to a "snorkel" and air intake on the side of the van. And, there are reports of gaining lost power by reconnecting the hose from the airbox to the snorkel when the owner forgets to reconnect....
Now whether that is air cooling or tuned pipe length needs to be investigated, but the engine is water cooled and lacks any shrouding so there is a lot of "open to the ground" area around the engine and the engine bay.
Cevan
Jan 12 2008, 03:40 PM
Maybe this is too simplistic, but doesn't the K&N flow better because it lets more particles through the filter.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.