Any have a list of their favorite head builders?

Just trying to get an idea of how much it would cost to recondition a basic set of 2.0 heads.

Stupid question, but are prices at Len's site per head or per pair? http://www.haminc.biz/vw/pricelist.shtml Does anyone know if these prices are current.

Lastly, does anyone have a reputable head guy in the northeast? How much should one expect to pay for a pair of good 2.0 heads, that aren't cracked and dont have any major issues?

Just trying to get a ballpark idea...

Yarin, go with Len...

very fair and quality work... give him a call..

No hesitation in suggesting that Don Bolton can do them to a very high standard. If they are not cracked ( are you sure? ) then it will not be that expensive.

Don's number
619 449 8670

I wouldn't be too sure they're not cracked. Most are, and often in places you can't see until they're apart and cleaned. You might get by for under a grand, including valves, or you might spend substantially more than that. If there's a crack, you'll likely need at least one seat. If the seats are worn enough, you may need more than one, maybe even all of them. And guides, too. Worst case, other than they're beyond repair, is they could cost $2K +. Best case would be guides and valves, and surfacing, and maybe some thread repairs.

I use either Competition Engineering in Lake Isabella, CA, or Engine Machine Service, in Westchester, CA (Near LAX). Both are as close as the big brown truck. Both are outstanding places with which to do business.

The Cap'n

Len had a special for the first 5 people back in November. I think the total was $800.00, but that was his special. I think his normal price is around $950.00 before shipping.

Head Service Deal

After hearing Len speak about rebuilding heads I thought he was the best man to do my heads. They turned out great. All nasty areas repaired.

He recommends new seats on all 1.8 and 2.0 heads because he finds they simply drop out in his oven. His seats are a much tighter fit for less chance of dropping out. New guides, new valves, new springs, new rocker studs, new exhaust studs and the exhaust ports decked. Flycut of course. He occasionally runs specials, and this is the time to get it done.

Mine had no cracks, that I know of, and that is more common in Canada. Most 2.0 heads have hidden cracks, and unless the seats are removed you may not find them until it is too late.

I HIGHLY recomend Len to do your head work. I was extremely happy with the AMC heads that were made into 2.0L Porsche heads. All the standard parts from Len are extra at most shops. SS valves, HD springs, keepers, etc. Heads are also CC'd. I am enclosing pictures of Lens work.

Another vote for Len (HAM)!

There is a reason why Len is the person I chose to develop the LE series head program with.... Thats because his work is the best-period.

He works on used heads on a case by case basis... After 30 years 95% of the heads out there have been heat cycled and fatigued horribly... Thats why I never use "rebuilt" heads.

Len won't know if yours can be successfully rebuilt until you send them to him.

I used EBS Racing in Sparks, NV. They've also rebuilt 100's of these, and the price is lower than Len's. Worth checking if you're on a budget and your heads are in pretty good shape.

That said, if you have the bucks, Len is clearly the guy. Never used him myself, but the physics behind an interference fit of a steel seat into aluminum means this is as much an art as a science and he obviously is an artist in this. The seats need to be tight enough but not too tight.

Give Len a call. When you hear him talk about these heads, you will be impressed with his wealth of knowledge. He knows what problems to look for and how to fix them. He has figured out how to make the heads better than they came from the factory. Given all he does to a head, his prices are reasonable.

All Len reuses is a head casting.... ALL the hardware is swapped.

EBS never impressed me, two sets of heads and two sets of gripes from me.

I am the hardest person on the planet to please but Len's work doesn't have that issue...

I aim to please.
The prices on my waaaay outdated web site are /pair. The goofy price list is confusing and last time I looked at it I didn't understand it! Mark D and I are working on a new web site. The ball is in my court and I just can't get my butt out of the shop long enough to type up new copy for him. But it's coming, I promise.

I standardized my services so the prices could come down and remain stable. I have several levels of development that will work with 90% of the applications out there. They are all turn key remanufactured units that require no additional customer performed work.

Your 2.0 and 1.8 heads are cracked, trust me! If I had a dollar for every pair of 2.0 and 1.8 heads I've had in my shop that wasn't cracked somewhere it wouldn't buy me a Wendy's value meal! Hmmmmm Wendy's!

BTW, Mark H where did you find those M8 socket nuts? I have been looking for those!

cost? a baseline for reference. ..

If they aren't cracked and just need to be rebuilt, with new seats guides and SI valves, surface cylinder area, 3 angle valve job. Thats the basic rebuild without replacing studs or welding.

$550 pr. for any stock type 4 head.


The thing everyone worries about, like interference fit of the seats, is not an issue. My pal custom fits each seat by cutting them on the lathe to get the correct interference specs. He knows type 4 heads very well.

I'll send you a head, have him rebuild it then I'll put it on an engine purposely overheated (with no cooling system) and we'll see how it fairs...

To make the comparison direct we'll use FI and put your buddys head on one side and Len's on the other. I'll also send a matched pair of 50K mile 1.8 heads that I have to receive the treatment, Len gets one head- your buddy gets the other. We'll dictate chamber volumes for each to maintain the same CR.. I'll use my equipment to video the shootout and we'll share it with the world.

A true shootout. If your buddy wins, he might just get a new customer- or several thousand.

We can take wagers on how hot the engine will get before the heads fail. I have the perfect test engine built sitting in the floor of the lab.
drop the hammer AT WOT, watch the temps climb and the power drop. When it goes bang we see who wins...

Sounds like fun and I never joke... Ask him when he wants to do it.

Thanks for the suggestions, and thanks to Len and Jake for chiming in. When the times comes I'll be sure to drop Len a line.

As dicussed an improperly rebuilt head is a ticking time bomb, no clue whats in mine. I know the PO rebuilt one side when he severely overheated it. Aside from that, compression/leakdown is perfect. On the track i know it blows some oil out the exhaust, still have to investigate that. This season i hope to dial everything in and get the exhaust patched up so i can really tune accurately. I believe i had a few exhaust leaks upstream of the O2 sensor.

Thanks again!

Whats the point?

You know who Don is jake, I dont understand why you feel we need some sort of showdown. I'm responding to yarins post, not challenging your obviously well supported engine program. He asked for cost, so I called Don and asked him what he would do a set of heads for a fellow 914world member for.

Watching someone work does wonders for your confidence in their abilities as I'm sure you understand. I've watched him work and I feel its worth putting his name into threads asking for recommendations. Considering the number of shops going under with the rise of the subaru I think there is merit in it, and he's a friend.

Maybe we should build drag cars or somethin dumb like that. We can call competition engineering and EBS too maybe?

Your defensiveness is a bit odd to tell you the truth. This is a community forum and I'm a member here, as are you.

So why don't we just leave it at that.

?


I'm curious, exactlty what are you agreeing with?... Mr. Orange.

I understand.. Totally..

It's just been a while since I blew something up on purpose and I'd like to see what happens... Thats all. Really.

Hell, as far as that goes have Adrian build one head and several other rebuilders and do an entire study on the results.... And I'd like to see when Len's heads will fail too..

Head temps will do in anybodys head work. Mine included. I will say this about my work. I've had a couple of heads I rebuilt subjected to extreme detonation, then returned to me. The seats stayed in despite severe damage around the exhaust seats. No catastophic failure, (unless you consider destroying a pair of heads catastrophic.)

Am I perfect? No. (That's why I have a rockin' warranty) Are there other shops out there that can do this work? Sure. Are there any current machinist out there more familiar with the T4 head (and all of it's quircks) than I am? Possibly. But if they are as quality conscious and detail oriented as I am then they aren't going to be any cheaper, especially if they are located in Califronia, or any large metropolitan area where the cost of doing business is high. To service these old castings properly takes a lot of time, and because they are famous for throwing curve balls that other heads don't, experience is very important. It's my stated goal that every pair of heads that hits my shop is serviced to the highest state possible.
Brer your friend sounds like a quality technician. I think it's great that this forum exist to pass all of the options on to enthusiast of this truly great, reasonably affordable mid-engine sports car. As busy as I stay there is no way I could possibly service every T4 head out there.

Jake thanks for standing up for my work. Being familiar with your test facility and your testing methods, I realize that there are very few engine builders out there that can make such a qualified statement. But remember, we decided not to take on any crazy projects for a little while. We already know our stuff is tough and powerful. Let's let the other guys find out about their stuff on their own.

Business models are important, particularly in California but its not always true that quality only comes at a high price. Let me elaborate,

Don's CNC type 1 head has been selling itself for 7 years at a cost well below its only competitor. Produced using CNC inside his shop, this head costs him little in time and overhead allowing him to work on more interesting projects. His business is not just heads any longer as a result.

Working smart and using technology opens up alot time for quality in other areas. Like my type 4 engines.

I went to alot of shops, many of them good busy production houses, before I decided where to keep returning to. Anyone who has one of these cars has been through the same process no doubt. Ask a guy who the best shop is and they will always say "the one I go to." Alot of that has to do with the relationship that used to exist between a car guy and his machinist, something the internet gets in the way of much of the time. What separates Dons work from the other shops is when he takes one of my heads in it is built by him on his bench.

Limits the number of heads he'll take for sure, but its not about quantity for everyone out there, particularly when they have already spent 30 years building them. $550 is a good deal if you have a set of clean heads, or even a set that just needs freshening up. But that is a baseline that I put together to post here. cracks take time to repair.

Would he take your heads in to fix? Maybe. Maybe not. You would have to ask. Thats the reality of having a machinist doing your parts as opposed to a $10hr. assistant.

anyway, thats all.
carry on

just think it's a cool challenge , jakes willing to offer an engine and equipment to quite possibly benifit the whole type IV crowd.

alot of times these things can lead to a better product at better prices.

kudos to your friend if he produces a quality head at those prices . the type IV engine has by far been the most money -to- horse power engine i've ever built.