Greetings!!

I know I don't peek in too often anymore.... more of a Suby Junkie now. But I definately can't deny that the overall automotive knowledge is far greater on this site than any of the Suby sites. With that.... we're in Utah right now, and with the addition to our family (my Son), and the English Mastiff we bought as a family X-mas gift, with the long road trips we have planned, we need an SUV, and I'm having a hard time determining what we want to buy.

We've done a LOT of research, and both of us REALLY want to trade in my wife's Mazda 3 for a Tribeca, but they are about $3K out of our price range.

Last night, we went to look at an 06 Jeep Commander... I really liked it, the wife was a little worried about the size though... but you can't deny the price.

We want:

a 7-seater (3rd row seats)
4WD or AWD
a 6 cyl (gotta save as much gas as possible)
Under $22K
No more than 2 years old

The Jeep is a very feasable option... but we are looking for alternatives. We may go look at the Suzuki XL-7...... but I'm not sure I like it yet.

No minivans, no Korean cars.

Any suggestions? Thanks!!!

That jeep supposedly gets "simply unacceptable" gas mileage. That was from Car and Driver - I think. My F-350 crewcab gets twice the mileage.
Steve

FYI.. the Jeep Commander ilooks like a great value because Jeep can't get rid of them. I'd steer clear. Don't know much about the Suzuki.

We test drove the Commander and the Liberty. Now I really wanted the Commander but it felt as big as it looks and I thought it needed a turret on top or side mounted .50's. It really felt like a tank. The Liberty is smaller but more comfortable and easier handling. We bought the Liberty and in the 8 months we have had it have used it every other weekend to pull our tent trailer. Now I dont have the standard little Coleman popup I have a BIG Fleetwood and have had no issues towing it anywhere. Longest trip so far was just over 1100 miles round trip, I did add the heavy duty cooling package as a safety measure.

Keep this in mind, NO SUV WILL BE GREAT ON GAS!!

I have had Jeeps for many years. I have had very good luck. A few repiar issues, the heater and the trans.
If you can get a newer one and get the extended warranty it would be the best choice in my opinion.
I would suggest that you stay with the Limited Jeep. The same on that they have had for many years.
The Commander and Liberty and the Compass are going to go away and they will be very difficult to sell in the future.
Gas, And SUV, sorry the only way these two mix is the SUV will love to visit the gas station. But I would still get a V8 over a 6.
My 2000 Jeep Grand Limited is still going strong with no serious problems, 103000 miles.
I have also looked at the Ford Sport Trac. I like the idea of a 4 seater and the pickup bed in the back. The top of line model has all the right features. Sunroof, leather, heated seats, power rear window, lots of cool stuff.
Omly thing a V6 4.0, some people like that, me not so much.
CCL

Yea... we know that any SUV we buy is going to seem rediculous on gas by comparison to her Mazda3... but it just boils down to the space.... we need it.

Question regarding the "simply unacceptable" gas mileage...... were they test driving a V8 Limited model or something? Again, we're only interested in the 6cyl model, which is rated at 19-20 on the highway.

Terrible..... but it's not like a Ford Excursion or anything.

What about a Subaru Forester? 4 cylinder, 165HP, 25+ MPG mixed driving, and way more room then you need for 4 people (mastiff counts as a person) and luggage. They are safe, reliable, and you can find them less then 22K off lease. Heck, you might be able to buy a new one for 22K.

I would never buy a Suzuki. Ever. If you are concerned about mileage, I would NOT buy the jeep.

I have to ask, why do you need to seat 7? Even if you have another 2 kids, you will only need seating for 5.

If you really need to seat 7, are concerned about MPG, and need AWD - Then what you really need is a minivan (and the 'Beka is a minivan - admit it, you know this to be true ).

I loved my Mastiff, BTW. They are short lived creatures (the one I lived with died at 6 years old, average is only 8) and will destroy your car/truck/home. You will find slobber on the ceiling, and they can fling it across a room without thinking. But they are also the most loving creatures I have ever lived with. Also, every other animal that you see will seem small, and NO ONE will F with you or your family while the dog is around.

Zach

It is rated at 19-20, but they only actually get about 15 at the top end. A freind of mine got one of the new 4 door longer Wranglers with the 6. Loves it (is a Jeep guy) but makes no claims towards good gas mileage.

Zach

Try the GMC Envoy XL with either the 6 cylinder or the 327 cid V8 (which I have and absolutely love). Gas mileage is virtually identical on either engine, but you can tow more with the extra "grunt" of the V8... figure 16 mpg around town, and 21 mpg on the highway. They handle great, and I have surprised a lot of "sports cars" when leaving the stop light
Mine came pretty loaded up with 2wd, AWD, 4WDH and 4WDL, and a Lockout mode for towing behind a motorhome, all on a dash switch! How cool is that! Plenty of room in the dash for a top notch GPS System, Stereo etc. 7 passenger seating, etc. etc., and I have never had the old girl back to the dealer for nay service work whatsoever! Just keep the oil fresh, and throw on a set of tires every 50K and you are good to go... I pulled the front brake pads at 48K and they were not even 1/3 worn!!! Rotors still perfect! We are talking a 100,000 mile vehicle here before any serious service...

Now for the good news! These were + $40K vehicles when new, that actually sold fro about $30 to $34K after dealer discounts... And Now?
You can find a really nice XL model for $14 to 16K with 50,000 miles, or maybe less if it has a few more miles, and the seller needs to make his next inflated mortgage payment!!!

The bad news? They are no longer in production, so you will need to look for a used one... get an idea of what they are selling for in your area on eBay, and then go out and test drive a few... factory 17" alloys with Michelin Pilots make these things ride and corner really nice... not a 914, but it can haul one long distances!

I LOVE the Forester. In fact, if I had to do the Suby thing all over, I would have chosen the Forester over the WRX to turn into the street-monster I've got now. But quite simply, although adequate, it's not as big as we want.

We do want something that will tow a small to midsize trailer, as we'd like to take some trips to Yellowstone, grand canyon, etc.

Additionally, I've got a "near" teenager.... lets face it.... we'd like to have the availabilty for her to get away from the baby, and seclude herself in the rear seat if she wants. Then there's the issue of visiting family members, etc. Granted, most of the time it will be down... but we'd like to have it anyway.

I know ALL about big dogs... I've had 2 Saints in the past... great dogs. The lifespan may be short.... but you can't hold that against them, it's not their fault

I don't think you could get it for 22k but the Honda Pilot is a killer SUV. They are easy to work on as well.

Nissan Xterra. Very solid truck (we own an '03). The new ones ('05+) are 4.0, and have more get-up-and-go than the older models.

WE HAVE A 2004 HONDA PILOT, VERY RELIABLE AND IT GETS 22-24 MPG. IT ALSO SEATS 8 WITH THE STANDARD 3RD ROW SEATS. They are hard to find used, but getting more common, AND they come with the legendary Honda reliability!
if you find a EX-L you even have heated front seats!

Yea, we've definately looked at the Honda Pilot... can't mess with Honda reliability at all.

But..... that puts us in the same price range as the Tribeca. If that were the case, we'd just go with the Tribeca.

So, I just stopped and looked at one of those GMC Envoys (Actually, it's trailblazer, same thing they told me though).

BIG... bigger than the Jeep.... not sure the wife is going to sign off on that at all. Not bad looking, but I wasn't terribly impressed with the stereotypical plastic Chevy interior at all though. Plus... it was an 06, with 50-something thousand miles.... for $23K. Wow..... for a Chevy?? Kinda turned me off.

I saw a Honda Pilot at the body shop that was Tboned, I couldnt believe how well it held up. Sold me on it.
Very solid truck

We just got an '04 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. It is a pretty nice ride and has all the luxury and gadget stuff. My favorite is the computer which assures me that it gets nowhere near the mileage on the sticker. I don't know if winter fuel blends make a difference but my first tank got me 13 mpg and the last one got me 11.3. ouch. That is with the 6 cylinder. Might as well have 8..or 12 for that kind of mileage. This was a family deal with an absurdly low price so I had to do it but, at retail, I'm not sure I would pick the Jeep again. Luxury and cool gadgets aside, the '97 maxima SE which this is supposed to replace feels like a better car to me. That's why I'm keeping it until it dies. I'll use the Jeep for kid hauling.

What ever happened to minivans? Everyone is convinced now days that they need to have an SUV. In reality, most suvs really arent that big on the inside. You can get a minivan that has far more space inside, gets better gas mileage etc. But then again minivans arent in fashion anymore. I have a VW Eurovan, and can fit more in it than any suv. Try putting 8 sheets of 4X8 plywood in most suvs. I think people are also a bit surprised when I pass them going up the mountains of the california grapevine at 90+ mph. And getting better gas mileage than most suvs.

The PA winter blended fuel absolutely makes a difference.

I track every tank of gas, and my average falls about 2 mpg once the winter formulas kick in. I average 27mpg in the summer and 25 in the winter.

Zach

The Mrs and I are planning on getting a , gulp, minivan soon. We thought about a nice SUV, but they simply don't work as well for a family as a minivan. AN SUV is really just a stationwagon with a lift kit and possibly 4WD or AWD. The minivan is simply the best tool for the job, and that is what they are designed for. NOW, that said, when it comes to towing, a unibody minivan can't compete with a body on frame truck, especially if you are talking heavy loads.
We have pretty much decided on the Honda Odyssey. 8 passenger seating, can be converted to TONS of room with stow away seating, all the gadgets and toys, and around 20+ MPG daily driving and 24+ highway. With the tow kit (frame hitch and tranny cooler) it is rated to tow 3500 lbs, enough to bring the boat or ATV home from the lake.

Minivans don't usually have much of a usable tow rating especially since most are front wheel drive. Sorry, but I don't consider 3500lbs enough when you may have to tow over big mountains to get anywhere. Of course we are using a powerstroke F250 to haul a big boat, open and enclosed car trailers. Although I am not in love with it my wife loves her expedition. Terrible mpg, but it does have 3 seats, AWD, will tow a decent size trailer, and we have had no maintenance issues in 110,000 miles. If you really want a big tow rating and seating for 7 then MPG goes out the window. Sometimes it's hard to have everything in one package.

Just a thought.
I don't know if you have any kids, as I skimmed the thread, but we bought a ford explorer a couple of years ago. We have two boys. When we went on extended family trips, we could barely get everything in there. In some cases we had to leave some things at home. We didn't strap anything to the roof though. Just something to think about.

Minivans..... whew.

There's no doubt that they have the space, the mileage, and the convenience...

But..... It's a minivan.... I just can't do it... Neither can my wife.

A roof carrier is definately a future purchase.... that will allow the dogs in the back, the luggage on the roof, the kids in the back, and the 4WD for the snow. Not to mention a lot more comfort.

Or kids on roof and luggage and dogs inside

I would go with a 2 year old 6cyl Grand Cherokee. 'O5 and newer is the newest body style. I went to Carmax to look at them and they had a few lease returns with 20K miles for like $17K for an '05.

I am definitely getting one once I unload my Cayenne.. too much $$$ I could be spending on sports cars.

Bear in mind that these things already have too high of a center of gravity. I would never consider putting any weight way up on the roof, because it is too top heavy already! I agree about minivans, but my pilot is basically an Odessy with bigger wheel and tires, and lifted a bit to look like an SUV. I found that it pulled the 914 on a rented UHaul trailer from Idaho to Wisconsin pretty well, and that was at about its tow limit of 3500lbs. got terrible gas mileage towing (12-15), but it is good for the occasional tow.

I think is was the V8 but I'm not sure, they were comparing it to and explorer so it probably was. It was worse than the Excursion! More like a Dumber H2. My parents have a new small Jeep with the smallest V8 and unloaded with driver only and carefully driven it cannot get more the 20 MPG on the highway. My 8500 pound truck gets 21 MPG full of people and stuff.
Steve

I'll run a little something different by you to consider.

Full size van conversion; stay with me a second. You can get a very low mileage say Dodge van with capitans chairs, rear AC, fold down couch, TV/VCR/DVD for cheap, especially now days. Huge on comfort (capitans chairs are great), kids can do thier thing way in the back (head phones, etc) without bothering the driver. Tows great; the long wheelbase makes for a very stable platform, and they usually have big brakes, cooling system, etc. For $10K-12K or so, you can find them with 25K-35K miles on the odometer. Take the $15K that you save and buy a commuter car if you need. The difference in gas mileage vs. the up front cost savings can put an awful lot of gas into it before you ever reach the crossover point in cost. I bet the newer one's get 18-20 MPG highway.

I bought a used van conversion with 4,300 miles on it for $11K. Drove the heck out of it, towing boats, car trailers, etc, and it never left me in a bind. If you have a family you want to take on a vacation, it has few parallels. Just my opinion.

Andy

Toyota Highlander should meet all of your requirements, gets great mileage with the V6, the 4 is even better. Available w/ the 3rd seat, FWD or AWD. Something to consider is if you plan to do a lot of heavy towing, a body on frame SUV is stronger in that the hitch is bolted to the frame rather than the unibody.

I had 2 Ford Explorer in the past. You can pick them up pretty cheap and cheap to own, and for the money you save, would more than make up for the difference in gas cost.

Garry

I have a Supercharged 4Runner and I agree, the room is great. Mileage is 16 to 28 in two wheel drive and though I have not checked it isn't much worse in 4 wheel high.

I plan on selling it and getting a Chevrolet Tahoe as I need more grunt for the enclosed trailer I plan on getting. Although with the supercharger it doesn't care about the 21' trailer with a 914 on it or my old 22.5' boat. If anything it needed better brakes more than more grunt.

I would avoid anything Chrysler as in Jeep. For everyone who tells me how great theirs is, I can cancel that story with a horror story about reliability.

I bet your mastiff votes for biggest! Though they tend to be pretty sweet tempered animals that put up with anything they have to. My golden retriever loves the SUV. If I tried to get her into one of the cars she runs to the 4Runner and looks at me.

I went through the whole SUV debate lately too. Owning a Discovery and seeing my money go through the tank faster than a bad TJ Taco (sick for a week) has me thinking twice though. We finally settled on the Pilot or the Odyssey Touring.

Here's a decked out Armada. http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/car/551380973.html

Drove a Jeep SRT 8 for the weekend It is on my list of cars to own.
Craig C. Laughlin

DANGER
Under no circumstances should you get a VW Touareg

My 2003 has been to the dealer a number of times
Lots of things broke
Everything that's been fixed is breaking again, it
just won't stay fixed
13 mpg if I'm lucky

But, it's a world class vehicle that can get out of its own way in a hurry

When and if it's running right it's pretty sweet

biz

I haven't read through this whole thread lately but I have been meaning to add two rentals I have had recently, in the past two or three years. That does put everything in your price range though, so its still relevant. On to the Vics:

'05 and up Mazda MPV for a strictly kid hauler or light tow/maybe/tourer

'05 and up body style of Xterra, great truck, good room, easy clean up and great motor.

can't comment on mileage of either but I wil say that the MPV drove great on a TDY trip from seattle to San Diego. twice with my Firebolt in the back. all the seats folded into the floor and had loads of room for other stuff. Drove like a coupe more than like a mini van.

Another I almost bought was a Liberty TDI, just couldn't get over the diesel sound kinda small too...

I've had mine for 6 years and I've replaced the MAF (because I ran a K&N back when I was stupider)

23mpg on the hwy. AWD. Paid for and I'm gonna drive the wheels off it. It totally "ROCKED" on the BLM tracks in Moab. "Tons" under your price range but probably not in your year range... enjoy.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks___...Z1QQ_pcatsZ6000

Click to view attachment

Thanks for all the help everyone!!!

Turns out... after all the crap the scam-artist salesman, and the disappointments........ We finally found a dealership that gave us a good trade-in, AND gave us a good deal on the car we REALLY wanted. We were LITERALLY on our way to another dealership when we decided to give another Subaru dealership a chance.

The newest member of our family:

2007 Subaru Tribeca 7-passenger Limited
3rd row seats
Leather interior
Moonroof
Dual climate control
Window deicers
Driver + passenger power heated seats
19,000 miles

It's been a couple days..... but we've had our first fill-up.

We're AVERAGING 21mpg, on rock-bottom 85 Octane el-cheapo gas.

We're only supposed to get 21mpg on the highway... with premium.

We filled up with mid-grade just to see if we can justify the price.. we'll see.

Again... you have no idea how happy we are about this. I even got the color I wanted!!

Thanks everyone