In his autobiography, " We at Porsche", Ferry Porsche explained that in his view a sports car was more than merely a rapid car; it was an all round superior transportation device. I endorse his sentiments.

Sports cars evoke an atavistic passion in autophiles and everyone has a favourite, or some preference. None of my cars is going to provide any competition to your Porsche any time soon. I can get into the merits of the machine. I can argue about performance...but when the polemics are dispensed with, the only importance to me is that they be good cars from the eighties that are sporty, reliable, but can be driven daily in one of the most hostile environments on earth. That means Japanese.

Your Porsche 911 was conceived as a sports car. It came in 1963 to replace the ageing 356. Porsche was known for its light, quirky, rear engined sports cars, descended from the plebeian VW. Yet the company had reached a stage where any further development of an archaic layout was considered counterproductive. They dabbled with affordable parts from VW and introduced the 912 and 914. Purists sneered. The company then moved to front engined cars, 924 and 944(again using some parts from VW) .They needed something that would have mass appeal and cater to the middle segment of the market where the volume sales are. These were true sports cars with balanced weight distribution, conferring superior handling characteristics. Car & Driver deemed the 944 the best handling sports car followed by the Prelude, and the test included some exotic cars!!! Purists snubbed them. The 8 cylinder 928 came along. It was developed until it gained the cachet of being the best GT car in the world, competing against stalwarts from Italy, Britain and Germany. Purists sniffed. It was front engined, ergo not a true Porsche. This kind of dogmatism is indefensible and indeed we can then argue that any Porsche that followed the original VW based 356 isn't a Porsche. Worse, these myopic snobs are driving the company into insolvency. To make money to continue 911 development while relying on its limited sales, the company was forced to move upmarket. Now the Porsche became a high performance, expensive machine, competing with the likes of Italians. The Porsche company is the most profitable auto manufacturer in the world, followed by PSA Peugeot and BMW. But the market for expensive, rear engined cars limited to two seats is a small one. Advertising, R&D, Tool and Die are prohibitively costly for a small manufacturer as we have seen with any number of defunct companies. Catch 22. To enhance the bottom line Porsche decided to go into the SUV market with the Cayenne in order to make hay while the sun shines. Purists howled. This isn't a Porsche. To broaden its market share with a more affordable product the company introduced the resurrected Boxster. Purists were disgruntled. It looked too much like the 911. So what? The corporate mandate is to make money, not to feed peoples egos. True, they wouldn't want to completely alienate their core clientele but their own priorities are constrained by a struggle to survive. They could end up being subsumed into a larger company.

Ferrari was sold to Fiat. Aston Martin was purchased by Ford. Jaguar is Ford. After many owners, Lamborghini now belongs to VW. Maserati is owned by Ferrari. Porsche owners don't care now but they will if it ends up in the wrong hands. They may shoot themselves in the foot. Then they will finally realize what a non-Porsche really is!!! They will deserve the retribution too. On a more pedestrian level, Volvo is Ford; Land Rover is Ford; Saab is GM; Mazda is Ford; Mitsubishi is Daimler-Benz; Nissan is Renault; Daewoo is GM; Subaru is GM. Fiat is 20% GM. Recently GM has just approved the rebadging of a Subaru as a Saab!!! How would they like a Porsche by GM? This same GM purchased Lotus, with a view to transfer some of its engineering to the US; after that it was dumped back into the market.

The development and evolution of the 911 is a costly undertaking. It became bloated, heavy, more luxurious, more expensive. But it was true to its rear engine and purists were happy.

There is a fine dividing line between a sports car and a GT. By definition,a sports car has to be relatively light. This because there is simply no way we can bend the laws of physics. In order to be manoeuverable, quick, good handling, good roadholding, it is necessary to be very selective, even austere with regard to creature comforts. The emphasis is on performance. The early examples of the 911 , well into the 80s and early nineties were sports cars.

A GT car is conceived as a sports car. But after that it is endowed with creature comforts, plushness, electronic and electric assistance, devices which have wiring,relays, electric motors, all of which add weight. Plushness equates with fat and is the enemy of the sports car. The intrinsic capability remains and can be discerned but it is hampered by the corpulence with which the car is burdened. More horsepower is needed to move that cumbersome mass. Larger engines, turbochargers, superchargers, 8 and 10 cylinders, which in turn add even more weight requiring beefed up suspensions and brakes.Lighten it with costly carbon fibre, aluminum alloy,titanium, Kevlar, ceramic composites. A vicious circle. Something is lost in the process. Porsche purists have forced this onto the company. What is lost is purity of design. They only see the rear engine.
Grand Touring cars have a different mission from sports cars. Whereas the sports car can be raced or used as a track car, the grand touring car makes no such pretension. Its sole raison d'etre is to carry two people in sybaritic comfort over long distances at a good rate of knots.

This explains the difference between the Supra that you saw at the wine store and your own Porsche. That Supra was a heavy GT car. Your Porsche of the 80s is a sports car. And being a Carrera, a potent one too.

I can make no comments regarding Alfa Romeos. Fiat's are not available here. The British sports car industry is history. Many European sports cars such as MG, Vauxhall, Lotus, Alfa, Lancia etc are not sold here. I did have the opportunity to drive an Alfa Sprint Speziale way back in the sixties. Although it had curvaceous styling, I don't think it would qualify as anything special today, other than as a collector item. Amongst affordable sports cars capable of being driven daily under diverse weather conditions we find only Japanese entries. Celica, Miata, MR2. The Preludes, Supras, Mitsubishi 3000 are all gone. Then we have German entries in the middle segment. Audi TT, Benz SKL, BMW Z4, Porsche Boxster, the Jap Infiniti 350Z and Honda S2000 and the new Mazda RX8. After this come the heavyweights, into which segment the 911 was driven.(no pun intended).

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Comments??

Who writes this phsyco-babble?. While all important points, its stuff thats been hashed out before. No secrets. We know Porsche rules. Boring... My .02c Anyone else?

This post may work more effectively if it was aimed at a 911 club, or more general Porsche club. Since it's aimed at a club which focuses on one of the lightest, best handling, most fuel efficient, loudest, most fun and least like what modern cars have become it don't make no sence here!

-Adam

One thing the 914 is not is a GT car. My car didn't come with any creature comforts such as electric windows, seat heaters, power steering, ABS, AT tranny, etc......
So I guess that makes it a "Sports Car" huh.

Geoff

that was an interesting read Mikey....
thanks for sharing.


btw it doesn't have to be 914-related, ok?

Yeah,
thats quite a mouthful- and I *think* it was a compliment to Porsche...I'll have to read it again.
And while I'm sure most of us are all around checking out the newest news in concept cars, have some interest in factory sponsored/independent racing, and possibly even own OTHER performance/sport auto's built by Porsche (or not) if the topic here is 914- which if anything was a step AWAY from mainstream sportscar design.
I mean did they do ANY market research?
They had the 911 which whupped ass, and in the day of the Datsun 2000, Subeam Alpine, MGB-GT, and HEMI powered muscle, Porsche built the 914?!
They had vision and balls.
And for my .02 I don't mind that they built the 924 , the 928 IS underrated, and the Cayenne seems great if you add $30k in options. Seems all their offerings to the auto world have been for a reason and more or less true to the marque, but I was PISSED when I heard the last air-cooled engine had been built. Of course it was inevitable. . ..but it felt like the last REAL link to the beginnings.
I think it was Woody Allen that said:
[QUOTE]"Y'know, it's like anything else. .."
R O

This thread will never die I'm guessing.

I want to thank Mike for the post...it enlightened me about the history of a car that I really respect. Since I own a 914 and 2-944's I was indeed happy to see that my choices are considered by some to be "true sports cars". My 944's came before the 914 and I have them not because of what the other "P" people think of them...I have them for me. The teener is still being built...the 44...handles as if there is no tomorrow... and when I get the 14 completed I will find out for myself...which is the best for ME.

I have gleaned much information from this site and hope to continue...

Ed, looks like you need to hook up the speedo cable....

Geoff

no no no...."If it ain't broke, fix it till it is."

Geoff,
What good would it do...probably wouldn't work anyway.

The article is a big load of bull...
It's not because of the "purists" that Porsche needs to build stoopid overweight GT-wanna-be-sportscars
Porsche don't care about it's purists... it's only interested in snatching Merc and BMW owners, not sportscar enthousiasts

The way it looks, Porsche will soon be just another car manufacturer that used to build great sports cars...

cheers,

Jeroen

in AutoWeek:
> Despite a significant drop in Boxster and 911 sales, Porsche sold a record 66,803 vehicles worldwide in it's
2002-2003 fiscal year ending July 31, including 29,024 in the US.
That's UP 12,568 vehicles or 23.2% over the previous fiscal year, thanks to.....

20,603 Cayenne sales during it's first eight months on the market.
And yes, Porsche made a profit. <


To me, that's GREAT news for my favorite car manufacture.
Especially when Porsche didn't borrow any money for the Cayenne, using their own money
for the project, meaning the money from EVERY Cayenne sold, stays in-house.

Hopefully to be transferred to the Motorsports division.... soon!

Jeroen,
They were doing it along time ago. in 1988 I owned a 79 280SE and on my 40th b-day I went to the Porsche dealer to test drive a new red rocket. I had parked the MB out at the end of their car lot and wasn't dressed too well. I know the salesman was not really interested in me ...because I had on old jeans, a sweat shirt and tennis shoes...I had asked to test drive the red rocket...and he went through all the diplomatic motions of denying me the opportunity...until he asked what type of car I was driving...when I told him a MB 280SE...he gave me the keys without a second thought...

Simple.

Whether Porsche goes out of business because they stayed pure to the original "Porsche vision" - or whether they abandon the "Porsche vision" in order to more effectively compete with other automakers the end result is still the same. Not a Porsche. I'm not happy either way.

There is a limited market of people who "get" the Porsche vision, who also have enough disposable income to afford and maintain one. That's the reality of it. If that market is too small for a company like Porsche to continue, then that's too bad, and it's the big bad world of business. If Porsche can survive by branching out into other markets, I guess that's okay too. The Cayanne does not appeal to me. But if it's necessary for the company to survive so they can continue to make 911's, then it's all right by me. Either way, I'm not a Porsche customer (though I'd like to be), I'm not a stockholder, and I'm not a corporate officer. So my opinion don't matter worth squat. (though I *do* have some distant relatives who live in Austria and Germany)

The "Porsche vision" - as I see it, was rooted in elegance of engineering, but as in all engineering, was a compromise. Rear-engine made the cars of that era handle better. Flat engine made the whole car more aerodynamic, and lower center of gravity. Simplicity made it cheaper to produce, easier to maintain.
In the 1950's and 1960's.
More modern materials, design techniques have evolved since then so that you can now put a massive 12-banger in the front, and still get perfect weight distribution. So now, the only thing you gain with the rear engine is "adherence to the Porsche vision".

Other trade offs were made which compromised the simplicity, in return for safety, milage, and emissions. There are no options in the market for those of us who'd rather not endure those trade-offs. Such people opt for cars from that era, the 1950's through early 1970's. We're not modern Porsche fans. We're "1950's through 1970's Porsche" fans. That feature set and those products appeal to this market. And it's a distinctly different market than the majority of modern Porsche buyers. For instance, could I afford a brand new Porsche today - I doubt I would buy one. Maybe as a second or a third Porsche. But not as my first Porsche. And it wouldn't be a Cayanne. But the Cardiologist who lives down the street from me - he wants a Cayanne. Does that aid my cause? Well, if Porsche decides to keep making 911's, it does. Because someday, I might want to buy a modern 911. But it does not, in the least, effect the availability of "period" Porsches.

Would I like it if Porsche started producing something like a modern 914, or a throwback to the 73 R/S? Sure. But it just ain't ever going to happen. Dinosaurs still roam the earth. Dinosaurs still kick ass. Kids still love Dinosaurs, but evidently, Cardiolgists don't. But nobody's laying any more Dinosaur eggs.

Enzo Ferrari once said the Jeep was the only true American Sportscar.

I own a Jeep.

I dunno what the fuck he was talking about.

All I want my cars to do it be able to take the top off, and make me feel good. My 914 when running, and my jeep, do that.

Screw the rest.

After reading all of this, I've come to one conclusion....my head hurts.

I may have to take a nap.

Or better yet, I'll take the top off of the 914 & go for a drive.

These people have too much time.

Why would I want to bask in regurgitated elloquence, when I can leave bigger impressions with blunt force trauma?

That person had better_never_write_a_book.

-yawn2-


M

Oh Shit. Trying to post after 4 Cuervos.

Skip all that eloquence. Define sports car. Here is mine:

A raceable car with the minimum equipment to make it is street legal. Speedster, Lotus 7, SWB Berlinetta, GTO, 904 GTS all fit the bill. I may be getting old, but those were great cars.

Reality check. Make it affordable and driveable.

Lotus didn't work. Colin said he would send his drivers out with 100% and expect them to win and return with 1%. If it never broke, it was too heavy. Great racing strategy, but not the best for a regular driver.

Ferrari? Just too many moving parts.

Porsche? Not any more. The 996 may be the best 2 seater car ever built, but too heavy, too expensive

BMW? Jag? Corvette? Nope. Great GT's but not tossable.

So tossable is the key word. Just light and fun to drive. It doesn't need ABS, 4WS, cup holders, carbon fiber, 0-60 in under 4 seconds. We all know it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

So what are the choices in a new sports car? I see it as a Mister 2 or Miata. The boxter is neat, but nudges 3000 lbs and $50k. Lotus is great, but you could buy a Miata or MR 2 for half the price, spend half of the difference, and make a killer car. But real men (and women) would be caught dead in a Mazda or Toyota, much less a car called Elise.

I think this is why we bought 914's. And it doesn't need to be a 250hp 6. My 2.0 4 has done a great job scaring the shit out of some exotics (and myself) on the twisties. Damn, this is fun. A speedster or Beck 550 would be better, but this is Walter Mitty on the cheap.

So remember your teener doesn't need to be a daily driver. They leak, rust, don't like to go in a straight line, but they are fun.

I only posted it to see if'n you guys can read and post good comebacks....

Looks as if the guy wrote it with one hand and a Thesaurus in the other.....Miles....that means he used BIG words.....

The first nightmare I remember having in my whole life, featured a Tyranthesaurus Rex, tearing down my neighborhood, by ripping the roofs off, and eating the people.

Oh, antidisestablishmentarianism.




M