I have an opportunity to pick up a 1973 Porsche 914 for a very good deal, swapping another vehicle I want to get rid of plus a very little cash. This would be my first 914, but I've owned and built several bugs in the past. A K. Ghia would be less of a stretch for me, but this 914 is very interesting. I would really appreciate some experienced advice...

Here are some pictures:
http://trscott.smugmug.com/photos/sspopup....;AlbumKey=Csbko

The rear trunk lid seems to have been flattened. When the middle of the trunk lid bottoms out on the latch, the left and right rear corners are about 1/4" high and the whole lid will rock left to right. There is a subtle lateral crease line, left to right for about 18", centered about three inches forward of the rear edge of the lid. It is hard to see, but at night if you hold the light at just the right angle it is very clear.

One consequence of this ill fitting lid is that the rear floor panel of the rear trunk is badly rusted and will need to be replaced. For now it has been treated with rust encapsulant and hasn't spread to adjacent panels. The front half of the rear trunk is fine.

My primary question:
Has anyone ever re-shaped one of these trunk lids? Or am I looking at a new one? I was thinking maybe I could carefully cut a wood beam to have the correct trunk curve, or just a bit of over-curve, and then clamp the trunk lid carefully with padding to see if I can return it to the right shape. Or would I be better off to take it to a body shop and ask them to do it? Maybe that sort of thing is pretty routine for them?

Rest of the car just for the curious:
The front trunk is near perfect. No rust, all parts intact except maybe the toolkit.

The floor of the pan is near perfect, original undercoating still 97% intact, and where the undercoating is chipped away, it reveals clean original body paint, no rust at all there.

The jack points are absolutely solid. No evidence of rust there at all.

The battery tray and metal immediately under it need to be replaced due to rust, but for the time being the battery is in no risk of falling out. It is certainly drivable as is, but it needs to be rebuilt

There is some surface rust under the paint at the seam between the right front quarter panel and the windshield strut. Not a structural problem yet, but ought to be cleaned out, treated and repainted.

I own a Hypertherm PMX600 plasma cutter, and a stick welder, and have been wanting to get a Miller MIG welder. I don't mind doing some MIG welding to replace the trunk and battery sheet metal problems.

The rubber around the targa top ought to be replaced, front strip is real bad, sides are poor. Probably most of the door rubber could profit from replacement.

Interior is pretty fair to good, the original dash pad has cracks but has a plastic dash cap over it. The carpets are worn but intact. The seats are good. A few small problems, like the rear view mirror came unglued, etc.

Door sills are rust free. large 1.25" rock ding in one fender well and the front body skirt. Taillight lens rock cracked, one fog light broken, bumpers fair.

Basically the body seems to me certainly worth saving.

It runs, but kind of just barely starts, runs rough, coughs a little at rpms all the way from idle to 2500 rpm. I drove it and once it warms up it is driveable, but not what you would call powerful of course.

1.7L with dual weber IDF 40s (I didn't confirm the numbers but that's what they look like). Carbs look pretty stained with fuel. I am sure a re-build is in order.

Unknown mechanical advance distributor (did these use the 009?). I don't expect it is a Mallory.

A lot of oil on the bottom of the crankcase as is common on these, some oil film on top of the block too. The engine pan gasket on the right side has fallen out of the channel and hangs down. The whole engine has some litter, leaves and stuff to be cleaned out.

I am told that it has the stock exhaust from a 2.0 liter.

I would like to turn this into a driver for now with just a good tuneup, with the possibility of a Jake Raby kit rebuild down the road a bit.

What do you think? Worth resrtoring? I would really value some experienced advice. I am having a hard time deciding whether this is worth the work!

Well to be honest I would not trade for it. the body lines are terrible and the rust is significant. Just my opinion but you are looking at significant rust repair and a body that has lousy lines in the first place.

Hey Guys, This is one of my extra cars Tom is looking at. He is a nice guy & pretty knowledgable as far as vw's go. This car definately needs some work but is definately restorable. Not a major resto job either. We've discussed alot of what needs to be done. Give him some advice too. I am no welder nor much of a mechanic to be honest. I am working on it but be brutally honest with him on the car. I am giving him a good deal on it but still lay it on. If there is anything I missed let us both know. I want him to be comfortable with the deal if he decides to go for it.

Oh yeah Tom,

If you guys down there need a good welder I have a family friend I could suggest. If you tell him I sent you he would do the work. Otherwise he is known wold wide and does jobs all over. His work is some of the most impressive stuff, and some of his work you cannot even see the bead.

How about it Jamie? Does my description sound fair to you?

About the rear trunk lid....would YOU want a car with a wood beam in it?

I wouldnt either.

You can get replacement carbon fiber front and rear trunk lids and save significant amounts of weight.

The rust under the battery is a big problem though. It may have gotten into the structural member right under there.

What kind of car are you trading in for this?

Description is fine Tom. He is trading a 1988 Nissan Pathfinder with 199k on it. Pathfinder is in good shape. Book isn't great on it but I have a friend who could use a car. SO I am just going to lend/give it to him if it works out.

The rust below the battery tray is not into the structure below. It is just the inner wheelhouse ( I think that is what it is called). Didn't get into the suspension point or forward into the longs. It does look like it is bad. Really what you see up top is it though. I have definately seen much worse. Replace the inner wheelhouse, put a new battery tray & it will be good as new.

AS far as the wood in the trunk I believe he meant to use that to hopefully get it back into form. Not as a permanent piece in the trunk.

Keep the advice coming guys. I think Tom will be a good addition to the 914world. Even if it's not with my car. The more opinions he has the easier his decision. I know what my car is & it's faults. I've told Tom all I know. Still if I miss something I want him to know. Again be brutally honest I will not be offended

The hinge bracket behind the battery is probably comming loose.

You're kidding, right?

I was talking about making a tool to re-curve the rear hood so it would seal properly. Kind of like making a mold out of two heavy pieces of wood cut to the right shape and then clamping the hood between them. If you cut this wood "mold" to match the correct shape plus a bit of extra curve to allow for a bit of spring-back, I believe you could bend it back so that it would at least sit flush. Whether you could flatten out the very subtle crease, I don't know.

The intention was not to make a Woodie out of the trunk lid! But that is a funny thought Purple... Maybe one of those Woodie luggage racks like they used to put on the back of Corvettes? <grin> <kidding>

I understand that maybe some cars leak around the taillight lens, but in this case, if you pour a gallon of water into the trunk seam, you'll get nearly a gallon of water in the trunk. It is just wide open. Reminds me of the old joke about screen doors on submarines. Look at the pictures. I believe that any leakage at the tailight lens is incidental compared to the trunk leak.

To be sure, the rust up around the battery is the primary problem. So I guess you pull the battery and engine/tranny, then cut out the old battery tray, and then figure out what has to go in that inner wall. I've got a sand blaster I can use to clean it all up and figure out how far the rust has gone. When I have looked at repair sheet metal for that area on web sites, it is pretty hard to figure out which pieces are being described. The illustrations are pretty clear for floor pieces, but those complicated pieces in the battery area are pretty tough to figure out online.

Gotta go now...

Signal Orange, yeah. Good Luck with your decision Tom

T.C.

get a used trunk lid. much less hassle ...

oh, and

Andy

Just my .02

the car does not look that bad, there are some problem area but it looks fixable. We definitly seen worse, much worse and they have been brought back to life

Pull the rocker on the pass. side just to make sure the rust is not all the way through.

Check the rust in the trunk closely, it may be more of a chore to fix than it looks.

I may have missed it, how many miles on the engine?

There are plenty of oil leaks that will need to be fixed ,don't they all!

NO intereior pics., how's that?

Will this be your daily driver? As a rule these don't make great daily drivers, not saying they can't be , just saying it's not the norm.

A straight trade for a 4runner, ehh! don't know if that's a good trade

Well it isn't exactly a straight trade, there is some cash involved too, but without going into the details, suffice it to say that Jamie and I both seem comfortable with the economics of the deal. I believe the car is certainly worth restoring.

My only hesitation is with the idea of taking the dive into the 914 pond; things that most of you very much take for granted:

1) I can't help but compare the job involved in getting things straightened out with a 914 against the job I am much more familiar with in a Bug or a Ghia. You peer in at a 914 engine for awhile and then look a picture of the livingroom around the engine in a Ghia and I find myself straightening up my posture to relieve my aching back! What? You say the fan-belt needs replacing? Oh my goodness! Where is that darned thing??? Oh yeah, first you pull the engine and transmission... <grin>

2) I gather that things like Porsche rubber moldings have a heavier gold content in the formulation compared to VW equivalent pieces.

3) On the other hand I believe a nicely restored 914 with a freshly rebuilt engine might return at least some significant fraction of what I put into. Or, to say that another way, the up-side for a Porsche restore should be greater than a Bug restore, but the pieces are more rare and expensive.

4) I would want this for a daily driver. It wouldn't be my only vehicle, but it would take a role alongside a Toyota FJ80 (which gets about 11MPG; not exactly an ideal commuter, even thought it is a great truck and I love it), and a BMW R1100GS motorcycle. It would become my preferred commuter when I am not riding the bike.

5) We would get an extra Type 4 motor to begin rebuilding while running the current motor.

All of that said, I also have a '71 Bug project with my son, and a classic motorcycle which requires occasional attention. The Porsche eventually will want to be stripped of paint and beat back into shape, and then re-painted like new. At that time it would need nearly every trim and rubber piece new. New bumbers, new interior, etc.

I am just checking my attitude to make sure I am being realistic about what I'm biting into to be sure I can chew it.

Thanks for all the tips and advice, I really appreciate it a lot.

Cheers!

Check out the rust spots and make sure that you can handle repairing them. also go ahead and just replace that trunk with a used one or get carbon or fiberglass. its not worht all that hassle with the wood mold.

either way best wishes dude
looks like a workable car tho.
steven

A good used steel lid will run you about $40. Its really not a big deal. I think that the car looks pretty good. Its a lot cleaner than the cars I have started from. Th parts really aren't that expensive either if you shop around and really look on the forums.

If you can weld I say get it.

Welcome to the club!

trscott,

When I posted up to your post at the ShopTalk Forums. I was hoping you would pop over here to get some more data.

After looking at your pics. And assuming you have the knowledge, tools and time to do the rust repair. The rest of it is easier.

PM me your phone number. I have some ideas for you.

Clayton

Lucky for you, there is no fan belt.

So you'll never need to replace it!

On the other hand, signal orange is the most common color. I don't know if that adds in to your decision.

I hope not much cash is involved with the trade. Rust repair is very expensive if you can't do it yourself.

trscott, welcome to the madness....

Since you're looking for opinions and everyone has one, I'll add mine. The car looks very restorable. You've mentioned you can weld and are comfortable around VW air-cooled engines, therefore, I would definately recommend this car to you. I would hesitate to use the car on a daily basis, but that's just me. Since your in PNW, I would make certain that the car has heat. A set of used SS heat exchanges would go for about $500. Parts for these cars can be expensive, but if you're willing to take good used ones, this is the place to advertise (WTB). Any assistance you need with ANYTHING on this car can be answered here. If you're interested in reviewing my website you can get an idea of some of the repairs I've done.

BTW, just buy a good used trunk lid and be done with it. You can use your time more wisely in other areas that will need attention. Also, check behind the seats for rust, in case the rear window has been leaking.

Good luck on your decision...

-- Rob

About trunk lids, maybe it would be easier to find a good one for less than $100. They can be straightened as I did on this one. I used a length of plywood as a template on the one side that wasn't bent, and used it to straighten this side.
Click to view attachment

And the after pic.
Click to view attachment

I helped Jamie pick this car up last summer. It is cold blooded but once warmed-up it runs great..or at least did when we drove it 3 hours back home. The pictures make the areas in question much worst than they really are.

Can't say to what is going on below the battery tray and sheet metal, but it did appear at the time that it hadn't gone to the structure of the car. The car is very much worth saving...pretty sharp looking in person.

Toss the trunk lid, treat the rear trunk area, and pick-up an replacement kit for the battery area. If you are a welder, the car would be a good candidate for a driver. As I remeber, the interior was in pretty good shape.
Mark

Well, we picked up that signal orange '73 914 today from Jamie, along with a red '72 914-shaped "potted plant" (<grin>, pics to follow), and a spare Type 4 long block that may be rebuildable.

We've got our work cut out for us, but we'll have fun.

First order of business is to give the '73 a tuneup and do a leakdown test to see where we stand with it. I'd like to drive it a while before we need to tear it down, so we can begin with one of the other two blocks.

There are several other nagging problems that will need immediate attention. The battery isn't charging properly, probably the entire electrical system needs to be sorted out a bit. One tail light wouldn't turn off once and I had to unplug a wire from the light so as not to run the battery down, by the time we got home, the lights were so dim we could barely drive in the dark.

Another problem is the tranny sometimes doesn't want to shift into first gear or reverse without grinding. Several times I had to start in 2nd. First we thought it was because the thing has to idle so high, like 1500 RPM or so, but a few times even when I could get the idle to drop down to 700 or 800 RPM, it still didn't want to shift without grinding. Felt like there was no synchro at all. Might be just the clutch not throwing far enough, but I think I should also check the gear oil.

Good news is the car drives very nicley, tracks real straight, you can do 65 with just your little finger on the steering, and when I let go on a straight stretch it was happy just running right down the middle of the lane quite smoothly.

I will post some more as we dig into it.

Cheers!

Glad you made it home fine. Sorry about the light & charging stuff. I never did drive the car at night. I'm sure it you'll get it sorted quickly.

I drove the Pathfinder down to Schwab as the strange sway is driving me nuts. One of the front tires had seperated. Still there with the new front tires but not as bad. I'll have to get it sorted out. I don't think it is just those bushings you pointed out. I'm just hoping it isn't a major thing.

I think the clutch just needs adjusting. Seems like I remember it oing that once before once it had been run for a while. I was able to get it in fine after that couple minute stretch. I'll be curious to see what you find there. I ddin't check to see what shape the clutch plate was in. I'll be happy to throw a good one your way if it turns out that one needs replacing.

Good luck with both cars. Will make a great father son project for sure

Have fun with your project guys. Be sure to take lots of pictures and remember to head up the the WCR in July. You're only a few miles away.

I did some poking around collecting numbers and such and here's what I found:

1973 Porsche 914
VIN: 4732916954
Date Code: 03/1973
Engine Code: EB006098, 1.7L
Color Number: L 20E, Signal Orange
Chassis Number: 1149538
Dual Webers 40s maybe? Haven't been able to read the code yet
Mechanical advance distributor, not a mallory, maybe (yuck) an 009

1972 Porsche 914
VIN: 4722920558
Date Code: 06/1972
Engine Code: EC011800, 1.8L
Color Number: L 60E, Irish Green (but it is mostly metallic red at the moment)
Chassis Number: 2729549
Stock Vacum Distributor
Single carb, looks like a small progressive
Shame it doesn't still have its original L-Jetronic

Spare Block
Engine Code: EA049531, 1.7L
Stock Vacum distributor

Looks like at the very least, a distributor swap is in order for the Pumpkin.

My son would probably like the Irish Green, dark green is his favorite color. He is pretty determined to try to get it running, but we'll see.

Well, I jacked it up over my grease pit and poked around all over the rear chassis, and I can tell you there is nothing broken or rusted, or loose, except that those swing arms are kind of loose on their rubber bushings. The arms themselves aren't worn or anything. Les Scwab will probably want to replace all the suspension parts, but I'm really pretty sure it would be fine with some new bushings. I'm sure the shocks have seen better days. The sway bar looks fine.

I buy tires at Les Schwabb, but if you take brakes in there for instance, every time they service them they want to completely replace the entire caliper when all you need is new pads. I imagine they'll want to treat suspensions the same.

My older son drove it between Portland and Seattle a number of times, and today my younger son drove it from Newberg to your place on I5 doing 65 with no problems at all, so it can't be too bad.

i've got a really nice calif. lid if your interested.

i say fix it if you can do the repairs, there have been many WAY worse cars repaired. thats gotta be fairly std. rust for the coast area?



mike

I had a 96 Pathfinder with the worn bushings and here's what I found.

Even with a great wholesale connection the bars alone are quite a bit(I believe around $4-500). Dealer will charge $1400 for the entire replacement. I got a quote to do the bar replacement from a guy I trust for $800. This is just for the rear suspension alone.

Good news is the bushings are available through off-road shops for as little as $12 apiece. Tips include freezing and lubing before installation. A press is recommended
although you don't care how you beat/cut the old ones out. The bars are usually in good reusable shape.

I also replaced an entire shock tower I was able to find for $75 and saved a ton of money on a bad front strut. The shock itself was $275 from the dealer without all the tearing apart.

Pathfinders can be scary with the 'rolling' suspensions and a few have been flipped when they get into a side-to-side wander. Should handle much better when fixed.

Hopefully you won't have to do emissions work on it. The knock sensor is buried beneath the fuel injection assembly that pays 10 hours to do besides the cost of the unit of $180($130 wholesale) and it's no bigger than a wristwatch. I think there's 4 O2 sensors before the cat.(maybe 8).

the knock sensor on nissans seemed to be one of the big issues on our 3.0 maxima along with the spark plug boots leaking. they want $100ish (x 6) to get new (coil on plug), the only way you can buy them. i just got 1" heat shrink tube and insulted them. works great, different car!

mike