Okay I figure might as well take the plunge, and buy a welder.

I know nothing about welding. I've never welded anything. I think I understand the basic principle. But if you were to blow a couple hundred bucks, to have a portable weilder setup, just work on cars, what would you get?

I was considering this little unit off ebay.

Ebay Welder link

Specifically, I'd want to use it to replace the battrey shelf, some trunk rust repair, and replace some brackets for the floods and such.

If you wouldn't use the above, what would you use?

Save your bucks and buy a Lincoln or a Miller, not a cheap import stick welder. Buy a MIG welder. Stick welding sheet metal isnt for a novice. With a MIG you will be making some impressive welds in no time. Of course this comes with a price, figure over $400 for entry level welders from either of those manufacturers. Hobart is another brand you may want to investigate.

This might be a good start

Invest your money in a tool you can actually use.

regarding the ebay link, I saw some pre owned Lincolns for buy it nows of 299

Buy a small Lincoln MIG. Much better suited for all purpose work. About $400.

Electric arc is much more suited to 1/8 steel than to 22 GA. sheet metal. notice the ebay ad shows the guy welding on square tubing. If your going to spend money on a welder buy a gas sheilded wire feed. Don't buy an arc welder for sheet metal. You wont be happy with an electric arc. Its allot harder to learn to use and you will burn more holes learning to use it. You will end up with a knik knak on the garage shelf and swiss cheese on the 914. If your looking to get by cheap save money someplace else. There are also innersheild wire feeds. These are better than an electric arc or stick welder but not much better. There is one advantage with a inner sheild wire feed. If you purchase the right one there is a conversion kit to convert it to gas sheilded wire when you figure out that the inner sheild wire is too hard to use and too hot for sheet metal.

You may also ask yourself if you want to spend +/- $400 on the welder plus another $200 for gas, helmet, cart, etc, etc if your only going to weld 4-5 pieces. You have about 2 hours worth of welding there, than you'll have a nice paperweight. I know you'll find other stuff to weld but the cost vs usage ratio is a little upside down.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I have mine, but it may not be for everyone.

Paul

Okay the Stick welder is for big Stuff? Whats a Mig welder like. Is it a wire feed? What is the difference?

I have considered the paperweight factor, but if I can do this for only a couple hundred, I'd consider it worth it.

Rent, borrow, steal.


M

I made the mistake of buying an arc welder first when I should have bought a mig. I used it a good bit on my rail buggy. I could already arc weld before I bought it so I was a bit farther ahead. If you do buy a welder start with a mig or wirefeed welder you can convert to mig later on. It is just much easier to use a mig. I drag out my arc welder about once or twice every six months. I use the wire feed at least every other day. I'm using it right now to build a set of A-arms for the front suspension on my rail buggy. I couldnt do this easily with an arc welder.

John

MIG is easy to learn. I taught my buddy to do it in an hour (and get good welds). Arc takes more practice, is not as easy and is messy as hell! Even wearing safety goggles I got a piece of slag in my eye (my good eye) and scratched it. MIG will have no slag. MIG, MIG, MIG....got it?

Sean is right about the slag.



M

Okay. So Mig. Whats the difference between Wire Feed and Mig? Something about a Shrouding Gas? Whats the supplys cost for Mig?

My car is also for education. If it can teach me to weld, thats something new.

Keep an eye on Ebay, pawn shops, etc for a Mig. I bought an ugly but extremely useful Mig off Ebay which included extra tips, extra spools of wire, an a gas canister that was just filled.

sm

I'm the same boat as Hawktel. I figured ~$400 for some harbor freight setup (I think it was a MIG). bought couple of books and plan on taking a course at the local 'U' to set me straight. With all the projects I involve myself in, automotive or otherwise, it seems like a good move, and I'll learn something interesting at the same time. I'd love to hack together my own exhaust systems and such.

Use this welder with or without gas. Comes with welding torch, tip, grounding cord with clamp, brush/hammer, hand held welding mask and manual.
Input: 230V, 60 Hz, single phase, draws 30 amps @ 230V
Welding current: 30 to 170 amps
Max open circuit voltage: 33V
Duty cycle: 16% @ 155 amps
Weldable wires:
.023" to .035" steel or stainless steel
.030" to .035" flux core & alumimnum
.030" flux core



ITEM 43025-3VGA

$399.99

Harbor Freight Tools
97 N. HARRISVILLE RD.
OGDEN, UT 84404

Phone: 801-778-0746

Manager: DOUG BARRY

Harbor Freight USA
10296 FAIRVIEW AVE.
BOISE, ID 83704

Phone: 208-376-8989

Manager: TERRY RICHMOND

http://www.ottosvenice.com/

To bad your up in Boise Fraggle. We could split the cost and learn together!

Okay Steve. Thats the ticket I'll start looking at.

Thanks for you help guys. If you read about some idiot in Utah getting a darwin award with a welder, well, now you know the story!

I took the plunge and got the Lincoln 135A mig. I got it off ebay brand new, much cheaper than I could locally. ~$400 is right + $100 for a bottle, you should get a regulator with the welder. Defiantly buy the CO2/Argon bottle. Rent will eat you up unless you burn all the time. My Lincoln is nice, but if I had it to do over I would spring for the Miller to get the smoother wire feed.

-P

don't buy crap.

Stick with a good company.

Miller & Lincoln are the big boys. Hobart is (I'm pretty sure) made by Miller. If you want to save then go Hobart, not the disposable type. They are a waste IMHO.

That spec sucks, you want to get the most duty cycle you can. It has to due with the amount of time you can weld vs non welding time.

The harbor fright welders are Italian made, they work fairly well ( I used to have one) but parts are a pain in the nuts to get.

Pony up the bucks and get one of the big names.

I got a "cheap" Hobart 135 MIG welder. I think Hobart is somehow connected with Miller. It works well and I can do body work, fix broken engine mounts and actually did some suspension bracing for a friend's car.

Ok, I have been doing just fine with a Campbell Hausfeld wire feed mig welder that I got for $280 (shipped) new on ebay. So far I have installed a suspension console, and did some inner longitudinal strengthening with it. It works great. It has done everything I wanted so far.

When you get into this stuff, you will find yourslelf blowing some serious coin just on supplies like grinding discs, cutting wheels, gas refills. So I just wanted to put this out there so that you know there is a less expensive, alternative to the $400+ welders.

-Thomas

WARNING: Extreme novice question.... my welding books should arrive in the mail tomorrow...



My house sockets are 110V right? The only thing that is ~200 is my Dryer. So do you have to have your garage wired to weld?

-David .... hoping that no house wiring is required.

I bought a Miller 175 so I wouldn't have to do it over again when I got good at welding and wanted more.

But... The Hobart 135 is a good litlle welder. If you're going near the $400 range anyway, this is the one you want.

Dont forget about Century. I have a 25 yr old Snap On Mig made by Century. Its a left over from the body shop. This thing has been used and abused by every bozo I ever hired. I had guys intensionally try to wreck it so they didnt have to work. (funny how hard someone will work not to have to work... Bunch of dorks ) I plug it in and pull the trigger. No worries.

There are both 110 and 220 welders out there. The 220s just do more and are less of a strain on your electric system, and tend to have more power for thicker materials.

You can use the drier plug if convenient. You may have to change the plug on the end of the drier to match.

I personally dropped a 60amp sub-panel with a 30AMP 220 circut in the garage when I did my remodel...

I have a VERY thick 20 foot 220 extension cable to get the welder out into the driveway for things that won't fit in the garage.

sm

Serious! You don't know how many times I have welded at night in my garage and blown out the breaker. All 6 of my flourecents (sp?) turn off at once and it's pitch black except for the glowing weld.

I like my welder, and probably will never weld with out the shielding gas. One day, when I need to, I will move up to something larger (175amp, 220V).

Terrance

Lincoln SP125 is about the best 110V machine available, IMO. Make sure it is on a dedicated 20A circuit. Any other draw from the same breaker will cause a power drop and may trip the breaker. Long extension cords will also cause a power drop.
Use .023"-.025" wire and Argon/CO2 shielding gas. You will be able to weld just about anything 914 related, with a little practice.
While you're at it invest in an autodarkening helmet. You won't regret it!

It's in the book, chapter one, page one, "Yes, 220 requires wiring.".


M

Doh!!!

not being a complete smartass... but if you look in your breaker box, there are 2 outside 'legs' and a ground bar, 110 gets one of those legs, and 220 is both of them.

You need another breaker, rated at high amps (30-40) and an outlet wired for the plug.


M

My garage sub panel is 100 amp. I can wire for just about anything in my garage. My compressor is 220, the welder is 220, the oven (for powder coating) is 220...

Yes, you will have do some wiring if you buy a 220 welder.

I'm lucky...

Previous owner of my house had a kiln in the garage for pottery projects, so I'm set with the 220V source.

The Harbor Frieght sourced model that was mentioned earlier in this thread was the one I was looking at to buy. I've got a couple friends who want to learn as well so we may all go in on it.

Not an expert, but Harbor Freight not known for quality of tools (please, no offense to anyone that uses them) stick with Lincoln or miller. Here is a great ebay deal ($300)on a Lincoln that sells for $427
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=45032

If you can't afford a new one, try and find a used Lincoln or Miller...I would also suggest going to a local welding supplier and buying one, sometimes they have display units for sale, and they can hook you up with the gas that you will need anyway. Another advantage is that they will be able to repair the machine if/when it breaks, I know for a fact that HF isn't going to do that.

Not to mention the fact that the lincoln/miller machines weld about 100x better than those other cheapy ones...as with all tools, buy the best you can afford.

Good luck,

Tony

I use my Miller 350LX TIG welder whenever possible. It can weld thin sheet metal with ease, and it just produces better welds than anything MIG or arc can do. However, it is extremely difficult to learn and quite expensive, at around $4000 (more than my 914).

This looks like it could be a pretty good deal for someone looking for a "hobby" type of welder.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=2589439964

Whoops.. looks like someone did the Buy it Now on that auction. The guys has plenty others up for auction though...

I think that is what I'll get, the ones Rustywa listed. I'll just rent a bottle locally, and be good to go.

As long as 85 amps is enough. What's the duty cycle?

I think you get what you pay for. I know I sound negative, but I'd hate to buy one and have it be a paperweight.

Hawktel
I would recommend that you buy your bottle locally instead of rent. If you add up the long term costs you will probably be better off. If you plan on going through lots of gas then rent one, but as a hobbyist, where the welder will go long periods with no use; I think you will find that just buying it outright will be much more cost effective. Refills are cheep.

Just my .02

-Pete

I'm with Gint. The Hobart "Handler 135" totally rocks for home use. I got this model because it was the highest rated 115v mig (25% duty cycle @ 135 amps). I wanted the 115v so I could use it anywhere. It is plenty powerful. Last night was welding 5/8" plate with it and had to turn down the heat because it was undercutting. It does just fine. When it comes to tools at my place it's "King of the garage". Another thing I like is that it came ready for gas. Just hook up the bottle and go. Nothing else to buy (except wire).

Call around to the local shops. I got mine in January two years ago - they were blowing them out as an after-Christmas sale. Got a great deal and it's paid for it's self dozens of times.

-Ben

ps - The famous bumblebee that Rusty and Pam resurected... they did all the sheetmetal work with a Hobart Handler 110v MIG.

LOL. I bought my Miller 175 (220V) so I wouldn't have to haul it around. Damn thing is heavy too.

If I had gone with a 110V though, it would have been the Miller 135 or the Hobart. Both are very good equipment.

How is the Lincoln Electric Well Pak 3200 HD. I found a refurbished one for $375 at Home Depot in Atlanta. Looks like it is missing the instructions but that is about it as far as I can tell.

I'm probably a good 3+ months off before I attempt anything.

Is this a very good buy or let it pass?

-David

bump?
No reponses so I'll pass on it then.

Lincoln Electric 3200 HD specs

at least you wouldn't have to rewire the garage!

jbb

my .02,
I am not a great welder....but I work around several excellent fab welders. When I was looking for a 110 unit, all three recommended to spend the extra cash and get the Miller 135. As far as mig welders go- they all agreed that it was worth the premium. When you are learning (and if you can afford it) it pays to work with a quailty system. I have welded on everything from sheet-metal to 8" pipe- it is a great machine.
-g

Uhhhhmmmm,
A stick welder and a wire feed welder are both MIG welders.
They are also both electric arc welders.

For sheet metal you want a gas shielded wire feed welder.
Flux core wire feed MIGs are known for excessive splatter and welds that are not as clean or pretty but are usually cheaper to buy.

For heavier stuff (and for experts) stick MIG welders are fine. They are even less money that a flux core welder.

BTW I love Harbor freight tools but the biggest dissapointment I've had there so far was the flux core wire feed MIG I bought from them. It is 120 vac and is just about useless. I would not recommend buying a chicago electric welder.

I have a miller ar work and it works very well.