I posted this on the NARP board, and thought it would be silly not to post it here as well.

Last Saturday, I drove over 110 miles roundtrip from my house to Torrance and back - no problems. In fact, after doing an oil change there, it seemed to drive better going home.
So I'm out for drive yesterday and I notice the idle is a little low and sputtering. I park the car for about 1.5 hours, and when I start to head home it's running like $hit. The engine is stalling at stops in neutral, and loss of power between 3000-3500 rpms when accelerating. At one point around 2 miles from home, the engine stalls at a light and I can't get it started. When I turn the key to the "ON" position I can hear the fuel pump before turning over without firing, and after several attempts I can smell gas so I don't think it's a fuel problem, but being a newbie .

Anybody in the I.E. that could lend a hand?

actually, i have almost the same exact problem.

i took it to the shop and they said it was the intake manifold gaskets, and the intake runner boots were leaking, so i replaced them.


well, 90 bucks in parts later, and 150 in the inspection, i am no better off than i was, so im taking it back, and hopefully they can help me figure it out.

could be a bunch of different things.

Check the MPS for vacume
Check the CHTS
Check all your grounds( a very likely culprit)

Keith

right on

Also check vacuum lines and spark.

1. Sounds silly, but check your oil level. plug or filter may be loose and letting out oil.

2. Next check ignition: points, plugs, wires, etc.

3. Check for vacuum leaks, hoses loose, missing, etc.

4. drain oil to make sure nothing fell in while you were changing it.

Hoe that helps, if not, post again.

Konrad

Thank you Keith & Konrad, your input is greatly appreciated. The info about the oil level is interesting. The engine is not leaking mass amounts of oil, just a few minor leaks that I have yet to discover the sources of. I will check the oil level though. When we did the oil change, I put in just about 5 quarts.

In regards to the other suggestions, sadly, that is where my knowledge ends and the asking for help begins. I didn't buy this car because I wanted to just drive it and take it to a shop if there's a problem. I want to learn how to do this stuff on my own, and hopefully, that's where you guys come in. Anybody local to me who could drop by sometime and familiarlize me with the engine? I'll make sure you don't leave hungry or thirsty. What tools would I need to procure for checking ignition and vacuum leaks?

Does it still run crappy after some 'time off'?

Yea, I took it around the block last night before closing up, and it didn't want run at idle. But I couldn't tell if that's from the engine being cold or if it's a continuation of the symptoms I had during the day. I mean, it started o.k., but a few seconds later it just sputtered and died. I would say that I'm frustrated, but I think that's expected with owning one of these cars.

Could be distributor losing dwell. Or in other words, worn points. Or a loose dizzy hold down clamp, or...

Thanks guys for all of your responses. So far it's a little overwhelming, especially since I don't know so much about these cars - yet. So how hard is it to replace the points, distributor (dizzy right?), and the vacuum lines? These seem like the logical places to start, apart from checking the grounds. Any advice as to where and how many grounds to check?

For vacuum leaks, the only sure-fire way is to start replacing hoses. you will have leaks in places that you never dreamed of. Ask me how I know...
Anyway, If you didn't replace it yourself already, take it off and put a new one on. A few feet of the right diameter hose should do you fine to start. Pelican parts has a great diagram of the correct hose sizes in the "Tech articles" section of thier website. (Sorry, too lazy to post link here.)

Also if you have a 4 cylinder with fuel injection, replace the 4 big "hoses" that connect the two parts of the intake runners (right on to off the engine).

You can move to intake/ exhaust gaskets if the above doesn't solve the problem.

Once you have most of the hoses replaced, a can of ether( starter fluid/ carb cleaner) sprayed in the vicinity of the suspected vacuum leak will casue the engine to rev higher. Be careful not to over do it though, ether ain't so good for spark plugs, piston tops, valves, etc. It ok to use just a little of it.

Keep posting if you need more help, its what we're here for.

Konrad

Once you rule out any spark related problems (dirty fouled plugs, bad points) move to fuel. First check your fuel filter. Carbs or fuel injection? If carbed you've got crap clogging your jets, if fuel injected I'd say bad intake boots and a vacuum leak.

Keep us posted!!

About a month ago I had a similar problem. I had been working on my teener and took her for a test drive. Great... then not so good. It started running poorly at higher RPMs, then finally died near a gas station. No restart. After an hour or so of inspection and trying "stuff", I decided to "just for the hell of it" change the distributor cap. Ran like a champ! The old dist cap looked none the worse for wear, but the car would no longer run with it.

Kinda odd, but worth a try...

Thanks for your posts guys, your input is really inspiring, no joke. This weekend I will start with new plugs, wires, points & dizzy. Then I will move on to vacuum hoses, whether they are the problem or not, just because they look like they need it.


This is probably a stupid question, but if most of the hoses have been replaced, where else would a vacuum leak occur?



FYI - It's a fuel-injected 1.7


Thanks guys! I will keep you updated!

Check
1.the hoses on the intake runners (below the air filter)
2. around the throttle body
3. around the injectors
4. around the exhaust ports

Konrad

Buy a haynes manual.

Look at all the vacuum lines and follow each one to each end.
Make sure they are all hooked up.
If one of them is not hooked up, take a picture, we will tell you where it goes.

Buy a multi meter (radio shack) and we will teach you how to check your electrical connections on the fuel injection to ensure that they work.

To fix your car and maintain it over the long haul you will need to have the following tools.
A timing light
A dwell meter
A set of feeler gauges
a 13mm wrench
a flat head screw driver.
a multimeter
a 10mm wrench

With these tools, we can help you not only diagnose what is wrong with your car, but we can help you learn how to maintain your car on your own so you can enjoy driving a 40 year old car.

These cars will need regular tune up work every 3000 miles.

Rich

Vacuum leaks on Djet usually cause high idle, not your symptoms. With one exception - the hose to the MPS. Do a vacuum test on the MPS and check its hose. If that checks out, then I suspect your issue is not a vacuum leak.

Looking forward to hearing if anything changes after your tune up parts, setting dwell, and timing. If that doesn't help, then clean the grounds starting with the terminal under the plenum where more than one white wire connects to the same stud.

In your case, I would suspect a bad ground or bad sensor more so than a vac. leak.

when this happened, did the engine have a normal idle at startup and then go high after running the car for awhile?

Was the idle sparratic ( high to low) before it died?

These are indications of a VAC. leak.

A vac. leak introduces more air into the system which makes for a leaner AFR and will cause the rpms to rise. sometimes you will encounter vac. leaks when the engine is warm. The engine heats up, grows and bit and will create leakes. The intake runners @ the head are notorious for this.

It's good to check for all vac. leaks anyway!

Did the engine backfire at all?

was there hesitation on accell or at steady throttle?

Do you have a CHT gauge?

To check for a bad ground: there is a 3 spade lug on the top of the engine block twards the back on the pass. side. most of the sensor and F.I. grounds are there.

pull, inspect and clean each one. look for loose or corroded wires.

5 qts of oil is too much for a stock 4cyl 914 engine. Check the oil level on the dipstick. 3.5-4 qts is plenty. Don't know if it would lead the problems you are experiencing but its not right.

Thanks for breaking it down for me Rich. I'm sorry if you had to get remedial on me, but it seems that if I start at this level I will catch on a lot quicker - no assumptions and no misunderstandings.

Thanks Jeff. I was wondering if I might have overfilled it. I will check the oil level, drain and refill properly as part of the troubleshooting process.

BTW, I might be talking to you in the future about a new harness. The PO did some funky wiring that I'm not sure is Kosher. If you want, I can send you a pic.

You probably need to make sure you dont have to much oil.
It will flood the valves, foul the plugs, and blow alot of smoke.

The condition you have sound like a combination of several items.

A simple tune up will identify all the issues, and you will become familiar with your car, what problems mean what to look for, and learn how to listen to your car.

Rich

, start with a toon(1) up( punn intended ).

Here are some other things to check, eventually( have a member help).

TPS( throttle posistion sensor) If bad, can cause surging, bucking and poor accel.

CHTS ( cylinder head temp sensor) If bad: will cause hard starts and rich mixtures. it is used for W/U enrichment only BUT if bad may/ will bounce back and forth and tell the F.I. brain to richen the mixture when NOT needed.

MPS( manifold pressure sensor) THIS IS A BIGGIE, IF BAD, WILL CAUSE SO MANY PROBS., YOU WILL WANT TO DRIVE THE CAR OFF A CLIFF. (without you in it ,of course)

F.I. trigger points( thay are in the dissy housing) if bad , causes bucking and kicking

ignition points( s/b changed at toon up time) If burnt will cause the engine not to start or run poorly,in general

YOU GUYS ROCK!!

Thanks for giving me a direction to go in. With your input, a Haynes manual, and the TECH articles on the BirdBoard, I should be able to work thru most of these items. I will keep you updated on my progress.

Thanks again!

Good ole Harbor Freight has a multimeter that says it will "accurately measure dwell angle and engine RPM". Do certain multimeters double as dwell meters, and do I need to spend more money on something better?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95670

Thanks

Never seen one of them before but there is no reason it shouldn't work. Give it a try - you'll need a multimeter anyway. If you can - measure the dwell of the current setup just to check out the meter. If it is reasonably close to spec you should be good to go.

My 2 cents worth. Pull a plug and have a look at it. Maybe even post a pic.

The MPS is a really critical part of the system like toon said. They are also starting to die off from age. The failure point is the metal diaphram inside. A crude but effective test is to pull the vacuum hose and suck on it. Stick your tongue in the hose try to hold the vacuum. If it doesn't hold replace the hose and try again. Still not holding - borrow a vacuum pump and test properly. Still not holding - get out your wallet.